Need map feedback/preview!

[H1nd]

Before I go uploading to repository this monster I have been cooking since the release of RT I would very much like to have feedback and critique about the overall style of the map and performance. Pointing out any spotted errors is also welcome since the map is so big and i'm getting very tired of looking at it.

This is intended to be a master map of open fields and town of Nemanitsa NE of Borissov. I have few semi historical/semi realistic scenarios planned for this map but if you know more about the fighting around this area then by all means do feel free to use this map for making any historicaly accurate scenarios (just remember to credit me for the map). It would also be very welcome if someone wishes to turn it into QB-map because I have zero knowledge at this point on how to do it.

Few bad quality pic of the map and dropbox link for download.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/4o5iq4pb4yro0sd/Nemanitsa%20v1.btt

Hopefully the link works.

Cheers!

-H1nd

Ps: most of the forested areas have been left out as relatively simplified because the action is intended to focus on the fields and the town.

Edit: Also anyone with better pc could maybe post some better quality pics? My poor pc is having hard time rendering such big maps.

[War RaVeN]

The link works...

[kipanderson]

H1nd, hi,

Wow... stunner... for those who have not downloaded.. don’t hesitate.

It looks unrecognisably better in the real world, on your own machine.. than in the pics. It really is right up there .

Now difficult to find helpful criticism but I know from experience that is what you want, not just praise..

I would replace quite a few of the taller trees in the urban parts of the map with clusters of bushes. One, two even the odd three at a time.

From all I have seen in pics... WWII Soviet Union was a bit messier with lower level, un-groomed vegetation...

But... this is a stunner... the equal of the shipped Master Maps..

Did you say I am allowed to tweak my downloaded copy.. say as I described when I have time for my own use ?

Grab it everyone... grab it while it is there .

Congratulations.. .

All the best,

Kip.

[Broadsword56]

+1 to what Kip says about messier lower-level vegetation.

The single most common issue I see in maps is that they're too clean. It can take time, but things like brush along fencelines, hedges near houses, weeds on most any ungrazed or untrafficked area, etc., make a huge immersion difference and give infantry more realistic concealment too.

[76mm]

Thanks for the map, great work. I've haven't made any maps for CMx2 yet, so take my comments with that in mind. Generally I agree that overall the map is too "tidy"; in particular:

1) the riverbanks seem too clean, more bushes/trees would help.

2) there are too many fences, and they are too well-maintained. I don't think that most of the fences on the map would exist, and if they did, they'd have probably been build pre-revolution and by now would be generally falling down.

3) You need more "junk" of all sorts scattered around the town; I haven't looked at what flavor objects are available in CMRT yet, so can't recommend anything in particular, but rural Russia (OK, Belorussia) is not a very tidy place.

These are of course quibbles, your v1 map is good indeed!

[EDIT] I took a look at Google Earth to see what the riverbanks looked like, but of course there are two Nemantitsas NE of Borissov, and neither of them looked particularly like your map (no stream, etc.). Plus the resolution is very low, so overall the exercise was not very helpful.

[Combatintman]

Bear in mind that this is a big map though (about 3.7 km x 2.5 km according to the screenshot). Adding a lot of the 'clutter' may total some systems. I've been working on a few maps and I have to keep scaling down map size or reduce 'nice to have terrain elements' just to get them to run.

[H1nd]

Thank you all for your feedback and indeed some of it has been in to my mind as well so it is good to know that the things that bugged me were not just products of my imagination but could be seen by other people as well! I have spent on average 4-5 hours (probably even more) a day for the past week making this map so you start to get bit confused and paranoid about the things and details and this is why it is very good to have outside opinion.

The next version will aim for more dirtier and messier look. As adviced I will most likely trim the vegetation in the village in favour of more bushes etc. Flavour object will be no no at this point as they may have serious effect on performance. However I intend to ad them where ever it is possible if I choose to slice smaller pieces of this map for smaller scenarios.

The wooden fences will most likely have to go for the most part (along the fields). I was bit sceptical about them in the first place and I also began to realize that they might pose some very irritating issues with tanks getting their tracks wrecked. Track damage due to wooden fences might not be an issue in smaller scenarios but in this scale we are looking quite a lot of them and tbh I think it is in general very unrealistic feature to have tiger tanks or t-34 take track damage from pesky wooden fence (maybe BF should tweak this a bit?). I might ad some more ditches however since this area is in some parts reclaimed marshland and wet terrain.

I have one big question as well: To wich extend would you think that this village has suffered during the German occupation. I have read of entire villages depopulated and burnt down but I dont want to go quite that far since it will be very impressive to have massed soviet firepower level the place during fighting. How ever the fields for example: should they be mostly abandoned? Does a wheat field continue to grow wheat even if crop is not gathered any more? (I mean if you leave it as it is for few years) What sort of other marks the german occupation would have left on the landscape? Maybe some of you grogs could give some pointers on this subject? I will ofc retain the artistic right to do as I wish

And indeed if you wish to convert this map to QB (maybe even with AI plans perhaps?) feel free to do so as long as you remember to credit me for the map. Modifications are allowed.

If you wish to use this map to make a ___historicaly accurate scenarios___ and have access to appropriate material reqarding actions in this area (i'm not even sure if there even was any real fighting in this spot in 1944) then once again feel free to use it and modify in any way you like.

As for other fictional and/or unrealistic scenarios I would like for you to wait for me to first release my H2H scenario using this map and then it's free game as long as you once again remember to credit me. Ofc now that it is in interwebs I can't enforce anyone to wait for anything so essentialy you are free to do as you like.

FINAL REMINDER: This is not the final iteration of this map and I will continue to develope it for quite some time as long as I dont run out of ideas on how to improve it. So those wishing to use this map should consider waiting for the final more polished ( read = rugged and dirtier..) versions since it will be less work for you!

And please do continue the feedback if something comes to your mind.

Long post.. sorry for all the misspellings!

Cheers!

-H1nd

[Fizou]

Thanks for releasing this H1nd!

[A Canadian Cat]

Does a wheat field continue to grow wheat even if crop is not gathered any more? (I mean if you leave it as it is for few years)

I cannot comment on the other questions you had but I can on this one. So, yes (at least in the '40s) the original crop would continue to be present in some form for a few years. But it would not look like a farmed field any more. Wild reseeding will not land in nice rows. So, if you were doing a field that had been abandoned two or three years previous you should not use any of the crop tiles. I have watched many field go from actively farmed to abandoned. Here is what happens, in the first year or two grasses take over with some small bushes appearing. After that those bushes get bigger and take over from the grasses. As the bushes push the grasses out the odd tree starts to get big enough to top the bushes. After six or seven years you have a significant number of small trees with a fairly thick underbrush of smaller trees and bushes. The time line changes depending on the proximity to forested areas - the close a field is to an existing forest the faster the tress take hold.

If you are doing a field that is one or two years abandoned then I would go with tall grass and a small number of small bushes. That shape of the field should be very easy to see. If you are in the three to four year range I would keep significant amount of grass but mostly small and large bushes. Those that are paying attention can still see the field boundaries. Longer than that start adding trees to the mix.

[76mm]

If you are doing a field that is one or two years abandoned then I would go with tall grass and a small number of small bushes...

While I'm not sure, I don't think that fields were abandoned in this area; after all, as the Red Army moved into Belorussia and Ukraine it took tens of thousands of local men into its ranks, and surely they were not all partisans, so presumably many of them (and the women) were doing farm work in these areas.

[A Canadian Cat]

While I'm not sure, I don't think that fields were abandoned in this area; after all, as the Red Army moved into Belorussia and Ukraine it took tens of thousands of local men into its ranks, and surely they were not all partisans, so presumably many of them (and the women) were doing farm work in these areas.

Oh, sure I cannot comment on the status of what field in what place. I just had some insight into how an abandoned field might look.

I suppose that even in a place that farming had not stopped if there was a reduced number of local people available for farming they might have to farm less of the land which could lead to some abandoned fields.