altipueri Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 "Also near Livarot, a troop of the Inniskilling Dragoon Guards joined a company of the 1st/5th Queens soon after dawn. The company commander waved them to a halt. The troop leader, lieutenant Woods jumped down. "Would you like a Panzer Mark IV for breakfast?" the infantry officer asked. He led him down a track to an orchard. 'Moving hesitantly in open ground on the next ridge about 800 yards away was the quarry, which clearly had no idea that he was observed.' Woods brought his tank through the apple orchard thick with foliage and fruit. They spent a seemingly endless time manoeuvring so that both the commander and gunner could see the target, which drove Trooper Rose, the driver, to distraction as the tension mounted. 'The minutes ticked by; the dialogue in the turret verged on the acrimonious.' Finally, they had a clear shot. The first armour-piercing round hit the suspension towards the rear. The panzer's turret began to traverse round towards them. The second round also struck, but the gun continued to turn towards them. Only after the third strike did it stop. At first there was just a wisp of smoke, then flames appeared and the crew baled out frantically." Discuss, with reference to CM timings and hit calculations. PS - quote taken from Anthony Beevor's D-Day. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 I don't think this informs us in any way about CM timings and hit calculations. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenris Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 Obviously the turret talk in Commonwealth tanks has been under modeled then, I can't even hear them when I play. -F 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
altipueri Posted November 5, 2013 Author Share Posted November 5, 2013 No it doesn't inform you, it asks you to discuss. What else could they have had for breakfast? Given that it was a clear sighted shot from a stationary tank - how would CM decide on a rear suspension hit? Is there a lot more hanging round waiting for something to happen in real liife than is modelled in CM? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenris Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 ... Is there a lot more hanging round waiting for something to happen in real liife than is modelled in CM? Yes quite a bit more, at least from what I gather reading on the topic. Most CM 'battles' are kind of forced/compressed affairs with a lot more happening in a short space of time than what normally took place. Is why the casualty figures are usually on the high side compared to the real thing. Edit - if you're referring specifically to how long it took for one tank to engage another... then no, I don't think CM models that particularly differently than what might occur in 'real life' - again at least from what I've read (having absolutely zero personal experience on the topic). -F 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
altipueri Posted November 5, 2013 Author Share Posted November 5, 2013 Good, my impression too. I'm sure I read about it somwhere. After all it is a game and modelling hours sitting in a hole shivering and wet wouldn't be good for sales. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Offshoot Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 ...so that both the commander and gunner could see the target... This bit was quite interesting given an earlier discussion in another thread about LOS. But with regards to hits, I assume this was done so the commander could verify targetting? So I wonder if in CM the fall of shot must be seen by someone in the firing tank in order for the gunner to correct the aim, much as happens for artillery, or is it just assumed that the shot was observed? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amizaur Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 The range was about 800m yards so it was important both gunner and commander could see the target - the gunner often couldn't see the tracer of the outgoing round and then had no idea if it hit or where it hit. Two pair of eyes increased chances for proper range estimation and corrections. From the description above, we have no idea what was the position of the target - if he presented a broadside, or maybe was angled... Do we know, what was the tank that was shooting ? What gun ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt Belenko Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 What else could they have had for breakfast? Could we have kippers for breakfast Mummy dear, Mummy dear They got to have 'em in Texas Cos everyone's a millionaire. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BadgerDog Posted November 5, 2013 Share Posted November 5, 2013 Maybe I don't understand what the issue being raised here is? :confused: The Sherman zeros it's master weapon at 1,000 yards with bore sighting by loader using silk thread (taped in a cross on the barrel) and zeros to engage with 303 coax at 800 yards. At 800 yards that first round hit is logical and you don't even have to be that great a gunner to do that. Heck, I could get first round hits at 1,000 yards without too much of a challenge and that was even with a few beer in me. The next two rounds making 3 for 3 at that same 800 yard range is also a slam dunk. Regards, Doug 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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