AT TOO (or AT two)

[Seedorf81]

I also have a question about AT's:

Is there a minimum range for AT-guns? I'd like to position ATguns behind buildings, but sometimes the road I mean to cover is 10 feet or even less away. Can an ATgun (or any gun, for that reason) fire successfully at such short range?

Question concerns game and real-life guns.

[YankeeDog]

10 feet?!?! That's less than 1/2 an action spot... I'm having trouble imagining a situation where I could deploy an ATG so that it would be likely to engage at such a close range. Bear in mind that your typical WWII-era AT gun is in the ballpark of 20 feet long from muzzle to end of the rails, so even deployed e.g., 10' around a hard blind corner created by something like a building or high wall, chances are that the muzzle is going to stick out where the enemy can see it long before they get that close.

But anyway, practicality and wisdom of such a deployment aside, AFAIK there is no minimum range for guns in CM. Certainly, IRL an AT gun projectile has no minimum range as such -- it is dangerous the moment it leaves the muzzle. In some cases, the burster charge fuse might not be armed yet so close to the muzzle, but this wouldn't affect penetration, it would just reduce behind armor effect somewhat.

[agusto]

IRL any gun can be fired at point blank range. It is a matter of the warhead (ie the type of ammo that is used) weather or not there is a built-in minimum range that the projectile has to travel before the warhead is activated.

In CMBN, i' ve never witnessed something like a minimum engagement range for AT guns beeing present.

[Seedorf81]

10 feet?!?! That's less than 1/2 an action spot... I'm having trouble imagining a situation where I could deploy an ATG so that it would be likely to engage at such a close range.

QUOTE]

Well, the road (North-South) lies directly and perpendicular besides a building. I put my AT as close as possible behind the building and make the barrel point to the right (East). Since the road travels directly along the wall of the building, it is at most the next action spot that any enemy armor has to cross.

I only once had an enemy tank advance on an AT positioned like this (an Pzkw IV), but it was clever enough to cross this point at full speed (AI-INTELLIGENCE! Bravo BF!!).

My US 57mm AT-gunners, expecting a slow-sneaking adversary, were totally surprised and couldn't get a shot off. I swore a lot.:mad:

Offcourse, cook-offs would pose a real threat when you're this close, but in dire straits it might work..

[George MC]

Yer stuffed if your opponent leads with infantry though...

[Michael Emrys]

I don't know about doing this in the game, but in real life an AT gun might not be able to track a moving target that close. Depends on how close and how fast the target is moving. Also how alert the gun crew is. In a case of extreme keyholing like this where the target might only be in LOS for a few seconds, the crew might not have time to acquire the target before it passes out of sight.

Michael

[George MC]

As always Michael is correct

I've noticed AT guns struggle to track a fast moving tank cutting across their LOF at close range. Probably why the recommendation when ambushed at close range by AT guns was to go for them hell for leather. Might reduce your chances of being nailed whilst a good chance you could overrun the guns. Also if you are taken under fire by AT guns at close range your probably pretty stuffed so best go out in a blaze of glory with the outside chance drastic action might see you through it.

[Seedorf81]

Yer stuffed if your opponent leads with infantry though...

Not necessarily so. A few carbines and hand-grenades from the AT-crew can do a lot of damage. Not to mention the HE from the AT-gun, if the crew has one man on the sneaky-peaky lookout, so the AT-round can be changed in time...

[George MC]

Aye but then his recce has done it's job and he knows an AT gun is hiding there

Against the AI yeah - makes no odds.

[Seedorf81]

I don't know about doing this in the game, but in real life an AT gun might not be able to track a moving target that close. Depends on how close and how fast the target is moving. Also how alert the gun crew is. In a case of extreme keyholing like this where the target might only be in LOS for a few seconds, the crew might not have time to acquire the target before it passes out of sight.

Michael

Like I said, dire straits..

The way ATguns get mauled when in "normal" positioning, (see Bill "The Butcher" against GAj in recent Gustav Line AAR), my option may give the crew a chance of at least gettin' some.

[Seedorf81]

Aye but then his recce has done it's job and he knows an AT gun is hiding there

Against the AI yeah - makes no odds.

Yes, you've got a point. That is, if the recon-force has some survivor(s) left..

[womble]

The way ATguns get mauled when in "normal" positioning, (see Bill "The Butcher" against GAj in recent Gustav Line AAR), my option may give the crew a chance of at least gettin' some.

Frankly that's mostly because GaJ's siting of behemoth ATGs wasn't exactly ideal.

Yes, you've got a point. That is, if the recon-force has some survivor(s) left..

Even if they all die, the attacker knows there's something potent hiding out roud the corner of that building, and the likelihood that the eliminated scout element got some sort of a spot on the team and its gun, if they're in grenade range is pretty close to unity.