sfhand Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 I'm writing this because Macisle, the creator of this scenario, requested those of us who play the scenario to do so. The map is a bocage map, inspired by discussions on the board about CMBN's depiction of bocage fighting. There are a couple of noteworthy aspects of the map, in terms of my limited understanding of setting up a defense. Firstly, there is no area in which to build up a defense in depth to engage the enemy before he reaches the first objective. Secondly, because of the potential for Rhino equipped tanks and/or breach teams, there are no clear avenues of approach to prepare for. Thirdly, due to the bocage, LOS is short in most areas (the roads provide the longest LOS on the map with one bocage keyhole exception – the only one I discovered at least). In order to win on points I can't outright lose more than the first two objectives. I chose to deploy my forces mostly forward in those two objectives, with my lead element being a skirmish line which I'm hoping to pull back after contact is established. I placed target reference points along the xroad (which means along the bocage as well) and will not use linear fire unless it is between trps. I also used a couple trps in the first objective with wire in hopes of catching infantry in case my oppo chooses a frontal assault. I have one ATG which I have positioned behind some bocage, in a very obvious location, with LOS down the main road. My two HMG teams are nearby, also with LOS down the main road. The rest of my defense is, hopefully, mobile behind the skirmish line. Macisle suggested the more seasoned player take the Germans, well, we didn't do that so I expect an uphill fight. More to come... Okay, those 2 paragraphs were written prior to the setup. I will be posting a few more times, because the battle basically broke down into 3 stages: initial contact, oppos plan ends up exploiting a glaring oversight on my part, the crushing of my force. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macisle Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 sfhand, Thank you very much for posting an AAR for the scenario. It is much appreciated! Since you have wire, you must be playing V2.0 or V2.5. Do you know which it was? V2.5 lets the Axis player know that point values are the mirror of each other, so the Axis player can afford to lose more than the first two objectives, as the Allied player is not getting many points for them. Sorry I didn't make it clear in earlier versions. I thought that people might be expecting differing point values for the sides, but it seems that most expect them to be the same. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfhand Posted June 4, 2013 Author Share Posted June 4, 2013 Macisle, It was v2.0 so you are right, I didn't know that. I'd love to be able to pin my loss on that bit of information, but my losing had nothing to do with that, as you will soon see. Thanks for a great scenario! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macisle Posted June 4, 2013 Share Posted June 4, 2013 Thanks very much for the compliment! I'm looking forward to improving things for V3. Though the map terrain itself will very likely not change, I have various scenario alterations in mind--some minor, some major (objectives, casualties and points). After your AAR is finished, perhaps we can use this thread for bouncing off ideas. Baneman's game is still in-progress and will probably be so for awhile, so I have to watch what I post over there for fear of spoilers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfhand Posted June 4, 2013 Author Share Posted June 4, 2013 The setup... I have listed the value of each objective area, with what I thought were universal values. Laboring under the misconception that they were universal values I set up my defenses with the idea of falling back from the rightmost objective after initial contact. I had trp's in the road from which to call in linear fire missions as I envisioned the enemy moving from objective to objective taking the most valuable first. The little red arrows on top right were my opening move advances (a pzrschrk team with a rifle team to guard their flank). All infantry platoons were split into teams and spread out along bocage with foxholes a bit behind them as places to take refuge should there be an opening round artillery strike. I set up some kill zones in the left most objective with mines, wire, and a trp (also LOF from units one bocage row back). I also put a squad, split into teams, of my forward line accompanied by a pzrschrk in the field south of the objective. Again with the idea being to establish initial contact and then fall back. My HMG teams and AT gun were set up on the road. I wanted to take advantage of recent improvements in HMG behavior so I set them up with LOF down the road covering the crossroads and beyond. edit, I have completely botched the images... I thought it would be fairly straightforward. I looked at the Bil and GaJ threads and noticed they both used flickr so I opened an account there. But one can't just post the image URL and when one is of limited intelligence one can't understand the instructions as given (non-existent). Anyone got a link or instructions for posting screenshots from flickr? Thanks 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macisle Posted June 5, 2013 Share Posted June 5, 2013 Anyone got a link or instructions for posting screenshots from flickr? Thanks Here's the way I do it: 1) Open up a copy of notepad and create "blank" sets of the bbs image tag (link for tag instructions). I group them in fives, as that's the max allowed per single forum post. 2) Open up the specific photo in flickr. 3) Right click the photo to bring up the size selection dialog box. 4) Choose your desired size (what you want forum readers to see) and let the browser load it. 5) In Firefox, right click the image and choose "Copy Image Location." Then paste that into one of your blank image tag sets in notepad. In Internet Explorer, you have to right click, select "Properties" and then highlight the url address in the popup and copy it. Then paste into your notepad as above. 6) Repeat steps 2-5 above for each photo you want. Then you can copy-paste them all from notepad into your forum posting. Don't get rid of the notepad file until you are sure that your forum post has been correctly posted. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfhand Posted June 6, 2013 Author Share Posted June 6, 2013 Thanks Mac, I'm heading out of town for a couple of days, I will get back to this when I return. (objective point values are listed in red text) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfhand Posted June 12, 2013 Author Share Posted June 12, 2013 Before I get into the screenshots of the carnage I figured I'd put up a little bit of information that I feel played a part in my poor performance. When we (myself and c3k) were starting this game this type of post was all the rage over in the CMFI forum. Between this post: http://www.battlefront.com/community/showpost.php?p=1434093&postcount=1 and c3k's swaggering posts (posts that I greatly appreciate) I wound up believing I would be facing a straight on assault. This willful ignorance on my part coupled with my not understanding that from a points perspective c3k had a higher motivation to bypass the north most (right hand side of the map) objectives contributed to my flawed defensive plan. Hopefully I can mark this one down as "lesson learned", only time will tell. Yes, I buried my head in the sand and completely ignored the fast moving, quick flanking, and hard hitting offense I have experienced while defending against c3k before. The most galling aspect, for me, is that I examined the path c3k exploited rather closely but decided not to invest defensive assets there (a single trp could have changed the outcome of the game, or at least prolonged the battle) I will post more screenshots tomorrow and move on with the battle. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macisle Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 ...coupled with my not understanding that from a points perspective c3k had a higher motivation to bypass the north most (right hand side of the map) objectives contributed to my flawed defensive plan... Sorry about the confusion, sfhand. The current Repository version, 2.5, lets the German player (but not the US player) know that objective values are the reverse of each other. In prior versions, I did not spell that out for FOW sake, believing that players would not take for granted that both sides have the same objectives/point values. I'm looking at an overhaul of the objectives and point values for V3.0. However, I will wait to open discussion in this thread on anything to do with the scenario design until after you complete your battle AAR. Thanks again for doing the AAR. I'm sure that many readers out there are looking very forward to it! And, it will be VERY helpful to me as I work on v3.0 of the scenario. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted June 12, 2013 Share Posted June 12, 2013 This willful ignorance on my part coupled with my not understanding that from a points perspective c3k had a higher motivation to bypass the north most (right hand side of the map) objectives contributed to my flawed defensive plan. Well of course you went with that defense, who after all plays for points? Measly whoosie points? are you kidding me? I would be disappointed in c3k too. sheeesh. Sounds like he needs a good taunting. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfhand Posted June 13, 2013 Author Share Posted June 13, 2013 As the defender I knew I would be outnumbered and would have to rely on artillery to even things out. This seemed obvious to me based upon the amount of trps given. My plan was to slow the enemy at the first crossroad. I agree with c3k about the use of linear artillery strikes and yet I have no problem issuing linear fire orders between 2 trps (which I did during the game) primarily because they represented on call pre-planned strikes along the roadway, i.e., the crux of my defensive plan. Below are my trps with hindsight applied. In game I knew the jig was up as soon as I saw more than one tank heading toward the only place along my line that wasn't defended. right flank: left flank: This should conclude the "setup phase" of my AAR... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfhand Posted June 13, 2013 Author Share Posted June 13, 2013 About the point thing... I would have rather not known about the points personally, for either side. But, as I said before, the points had nothing to do with my glaring oversight... I wish I could blame that on Ken... but alas, it is all on me 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfhand Posted June 13, 2013 Author Share Posted June 13, 2013 This is just my side of things, for those seeking exciting action, I recommend heading over to c3k's thread, located here: http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=110256 In that thread he has outlined his plan of attack and after looking at my defense the outcome of this battle should be no surprise. His strength is applied directly on my most glaring weakness. Here's how our initial contact played out on my left flank... I had moved a pzschrk team forward along with a rifle team. I had used this strategy to great effect during our last battle (no glaring oversights in that one). Anyway, the forward rifle team spots some Ami's in the field and opens fire you can make out the red cross marking the first casualty of the battle Then the team spots more Ami's... Aside from the casualty they notice, at the end of the turn, Ami's are getting through. So they decide to fall back, notice the cowering pzschrk team member... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfhand Posted June 13, 2013 Author Share Posted June 13, 2013 Down goes Frazier... He's not getting up from that... And the rifle team isn't falling back unscathed either... The pzrschrk team... and the rifle team... at the end of that turn. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
c3k Posted June 17, 2013 Share Posted June 17, 2013 I had moved a pzschrk team forward along with a rifle team. I had used this strategy to great effect during our last battle (no glaring oversights in that one). sfhand is referring to a classic drubbing I recieved at his hands. His landser used their LATW's to great effect. I had a richness of tanks and got lazy. He punished me for that. I don't know if any of his schrecks or fausts missed in that game. Tank charges in bocage are NOT a good idea! Ken 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfhand Posted June 25, 2013 Author Share Posted June 25, 2013 The following screenshots highlight the minute in which I realize I have been completely fascinated by the flavor of my own BS... it starts with me moving some infantry to try and stop c3k at the road. The teams on the right and center are positioned to contest the road and parts of the adjacent plowed field... the team on the left is set up to contest the bocage "hallway" entrance should they cross the road. and then reality interrupts my fantasy... These guys are not properly supported for what is coming their way. You can see a pzrschrck, I'm not going to pull it over, so sir, I'm going to get one from the other side of the map and keep that one on the off chance he comes down the road... not that this decision will make a difference. In the mean time some of my guys get to shoot their guns! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfhand Posted June 25, 2013 Author Share Posted June 25, 2013 These guys get to shoot their guns too! Enjoy it while it lasts, fellas. Here's the pzschrck team leaving their deployment for their new assignment. If you click on this picture you will see more infantry in the field next to the buildings moving to support positions. I've played c3k before and know how quickly he likes to move his forces once he encounters a weakness in the defense. Great events are about to occur... The approach 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfhand Posted June 25, 2013 Author Share Posted June 25, 2013 The arrival (this all happened in a matter of seconds) Taking a knee Target sighted Shot fired A little luck goes a long way After our last battle, wherein I caused major mayhem with schrcks and fausts, I hoped this would slow c3k down just a bit... I should have known better! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfhand Posted June 25, 2013 Author Share Posted June 25, 2013 Meanwhile, on the other side of the map I am having a problem that I haven't mentioned yet. I had the same issue in the map center; the troops I wanted to pull back were frequently pinned. I got the center elements out but I don't think these guys are going to make it... I'm so gamey... I've got the truck ready to take this gun away to my left flank (where c3k is) once I am sure he's not sending any armor up the middle. Part of my reluctance to relocate has to do with my impression of current 'flaws' in atg setup behaviors, i.e., once I move it I may never be able to use it. This gun, even if positioned on my left flank would not have made up for my glaring oversight in setting up my defense. Here I am setting up a defensive line for what I think is a collapsing left flank... if only! I am taking the situation on my left very seriously. I am not reluctant to pull one of my two MG teams over in support. They started running the wrong way because the only path to their new assignment was indirect. If they knew what was good for themselves they would have kept running this way. And finally, my last for the day, my MG team eagerly rushing to their demise... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfhand Posted June 26, 2013 Author Share Posted June 26, 2013 A quick note on my gamey tank/truck pic... I didn't set up that way, I had the truck ~75 meters away and backed it into position when I saw the armor activities on my left flank. Not knowing anything about the size of the enemy force I was reluctant to move the gun as an initial reaction to the left flank situation. As I said earlier, as the defender on this map it seems very clear to me I was going to need success with my artillery to win or draw. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfhand Posted July 2, 2013 Author Share Posted July 2, 2013 I'm not sure I think a further recounting of my forces getting ground to fine dust is all that entertaining. At this point in the game I believed I was toast and my best efforts would only provide a speed bump, if that, to c3k's inspired attack. So, for that reason I am thinking I should wrap this thread up and wait until after c3k is done with his excellent AAR to discuss what I thought of the scenario. Of course if c3k or Macisle want more I will continue, otherwise this is it. Thanks for checking it out! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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