PZJg Battalion of the 709 Infantry unit OOB?

[Tactical Wargamer]

Hey guys just playing out a little campaign game...Just came across this unit PzJg 709 of the 709th Infantry division on the morning of June 6th. Any ideas on a realistic OOB for this unit? It appears to be a Battalion level unit with only "2 steps as opposed to the normal 3 "steps" for larger Battalion units.

Using the board game Battle for Normandy with 3 players + CMBN

Pic

https://www.dropbox.com/sh/9e7dww7hp6i4xqa/LEnQJJjZF1

Thanks guys.....

[JonS]

Pz.Jg.-Abt. 709

Gefechtsstand – Câtelet (2 kilometers southeast of Valognes)

1. (Sfl.) Kp. (nine 7.5cm s.Pak Sfl. auf Lorraine-Schlepper)

2. (Mot.) Kp. – Fleury (2 kilometers northeast of Jobourg) (12 7.5cm s.Pak)

3. (Flak) Kp. (nine 3.7cm Flak (Mot.)

(that's as at 1 June 1944)

[Tactical Wargamer]

Your amazing Jon!

[John Kettler]

RCMP,

Item 1 on the impressive list JonS so kindly provided you is one of the Captain Alfred Becker Specials, conversions done by Alkett.

The critter (this one's been captured) looks like this and is, for game purposes, a Marder. Sadly, it's not modeled in the game, but is much better (below article not withstanding) protected than the slab sided German ones.

http://www.historyofwar.org/Pictures/7_5cm_Pak40_1_auf_GW_Lorraine_schlepper.jpg

http://www.achtungpanzer.com/marder-marten-series.htm

21PD had lots of converted French gear and is the subject of considerable interest by our own Kingfish.

Regards,

John Kettler

[Schrullenhaft]

If we're lucky some of these captured and converted French vehicles/AFVs may become available in the 'odds and ends' pack that has been mentioned in the past. I'm not sure if this pack will come to pass or not, but it is something that Steve has mentioned in the past and the 21st PD equipment would be a good candidate for inclusion.

[Tactical Wargamer]

RCMP,

Item 1 on the impressive list JonS so kindly provided you is one of the Captain Alfred Becker Specials, conversions done by Alkett.

The critter (this one's been captured) looks like this and is, for game purposes, a Marder. Sadly, it's not modeled in the game, but is much better (below article not withstanding) protected than the slab sided German ones.

http://www.historyofwar.org/Pictures/7_5cm_Pak40_1_auf_GW_Lorraine_schlepper.jpg

http://www.achtungpanzer.com/marder-marten-series.htm

21PD had lots of converted French gear and is the subject of considerable interest by our own Kingfish.

Regards,

John Kettler

Thanks John. Sources are great....We were thinking something like the marder or the Stummel to substitute for them.

Since I have you OOB experts around thought I would throw one more at you.

On the southern front of the Utah landings we have the unit Pz 100 with a R35 silhouette on it. From the counter abstractions looks like a reduced armour battalion.

The 91st Div commander wants to take the secondary rd from Pont-l'Abbe using the Pz 100 (to the south & the 14 Pak 91 + Eng Btn) and make an attack on the 82'nd (h/3/508) company.

Any recommendations gentlemen of the PZ 100 and Pak 14 unit. Getting mixed info on compositions and suitable conversions to CMBN.

The 82 Div commander is an old salt and likes it as realistic as possible

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/30300468/Pz100.jpg

[Tactical Wargamer]

If we're lucky some of these captured and converted French vehicles/AFVs may become available in the 'odds and ends' pack that has been mentioned in the past. I'm not sure if this pack will come to pass or not, but it is something that Steve has mentioned in the past and the 21st PD equipment would be a good candidate for inclusion.

Indeed it would!!

[JonS]

For the French lash-ups, I think the most important characteristics is their high velocity 75mm gun plus weak armour, making the Marder a better stand-in than the Stummel. On the other hand, the units that used the 75mm PaK lash ups also had quantities of 105mm lashups, and the Stummel would be good for them (or better yet a Wespe).

Pz.-A.u.E.-Abtl. 100 (Panzer-Ausbildungs-und Ersatz-Abteilung)

Gefechtsstand – Franquetot (4 kilometers northwest of Baupte)

Kdr.: Major Bardtenschlager

Stabskp. –

. Nach.Zug

. Werkstatt-Zug – Carentan

. le.Pz.Zug (5 Pzkpfw 35R 731(f))

. 1. Kp. – Baupte

. . I. (Pz.) Zug (5 Pzkpfw 35R 731(f))

. . II. (Schtz.) Zug

. . III. (Schtz.) Zug

. 2. Kp. – Coigny

. . Kp.Fhr. (2 Pz-IIIG)

. . I. (Pz.) Zug (1 PzKpfw 35S 739(f), 4 Pzkpfw 35R 731(f))

. . II. (Pz.) Zug (1 Pzkpfw B2 740(f), 4 Pzkpfw 38H 735(f))

. . III. (Pz.) Zug (1 Pz-IIIG, 4 Pzkpfw 38H 735(f))

. 3. Kp. – Auvers

. . I. (Pz.) Zug (5 Pzkpfw 35R 731(f))

. . II. (Schtz.) Zug

. . III. (Schtz.) Zug

Tank strengths given are as of 20 May. Personnel strength as of 18 May was 664. Note in particular all the infantry platoons embedded.

For the French tanks like the R-35 and the Hotchkiss ... that's a tricky one. Your best bet might be some of the British armoured cars - the Daimler or Humber in particular, or perhaps the Staghound. Their gun is about the right calibre, and it's manually loaded (unlike 20mm auto cannons in the German armoured cars) meaning the rate of fire is about right. They also - except the Staghound - have small crews. The Char B2 is approximately a Sherman, or short-barreled PzIV (are those in CM? I forget).

"14 Pak 91" doesn't make a lot of sense. Each of the two grenadier regiments in 91 (LL) Div had a 14. (Pz.Jg.) Kp., probably with 12 x 7.5cm PaK 40 each. 91 (LL) Div also had the Pz.Jg.-Kp. 191 (a divisional asset), probably also with 12 x 7.5cm PaK 40, although it might have had at least a few 8.8cm PaK 43.

[Tactical Wargamer]

Thanks again!! Our 82 nd chap feels good now

[Durruti Column]

RCMP,

Item 1 on the impressive list JonS so kindly provided you is one of the Captain Alfred Becker Specials, conversions done by Alkett.

The critter (this one's been captured) looks like this and is, for game purposes, a Marder. Sadly, it's not modeled in the game, but is much better (below article not withstanding) protected than the slab sided German ones.

http://www.historyofwar.org/Pictures..._schlepper.jpg

http://www.achtungpanzer.com/marder-marten-series.htm

21PD had lots of converted French gear and is the subject of considerable interest by our own Kingfish.

Regards,

John Kettler

If we're lucky some of these captured and converted French vehicles/AFVs may become available in the 'odds and ends' pack that has been mentioned in the past. I'm not sure if this pack will come to pass or not, but it is something that Steve has mentioned in the past and the 21st PD equipment would be a good candidate for inclusion.

Sorry if I've misunderstood - surely the Marder I included in the Commonwealth pack is one of these Becker conversions (aka a 7.5cm s.Pak Sfl. auf Lorraine-Schlepper)??

[John Kettler]

Durruti Column,

Well spotted!

I thought I saw one of those while looking at somebody's Marder paint jobs, but was so fried it didn't register consciously. It shows you how vanishingly little I know of the Germans in the Commonwealth Pack. Could it be something to do with having played only 18 Platoon (British; got my command slaughtered) and no QBs? Nah! Is it, in fact, better protected than the slab sided Marder. I'd expect so, what with the angled armor.

Regards,

John Kettler

[John Kettler]

RCMP,

Is there any way to port vehicles from CMFI? I'd think something Italian would probably be a reasonable stand-in for the R35. What about a Fiat 3000? It's slow, poorly protected, but does have a better gun.

Here's a real R35.

Russian version of Fiat 3000

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oNc1lHv0dhI

Regards,

John Kettler