Guest titan Posted November 7, 1999 Share Posted November 7, 1999 Just want to check something,im in the middle of a firefight and as allies im trying to use mortar fire,but when i plot to target it says out of line of sight,i must admit i had my mortars in the wood that may be the reason?the mortars im useing are 60mm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PeterNZ Posted November 7, 1999 Share Posted November 7, 1999 60mm mortars currently require LOS to a target, although apparently that might change before final release. If you have LOS to the bad guys, they'll fire. And dude, can you add a copy of CM for me to your order list? And also, when do i get to play you? PeterNZ aka. Dynamo aka. dyna-- (warbirds) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reverendo Posted November 7, 1999 Share Posted November 7, 1999 But... Let's see. I understand the Forward Observers thing, since that kind of artillery is usually 'off-board'. But I think mortars should be able to use other unit's line of sight, let's say, HQ units'. It is a bother to need direct LOS with mortars, since the big advantage mortars are supposed to have is to fire over obstructions... The only thing I get with 60mm mortars in CM are long ranged, low accuracy, low penetration bazookas... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest BigAlMoho Posted November 7, 1999 Share Posted November 7, 1999 Hello, "But I think mortars should be able to use other unit's line of sight, let's say, HQ units'." Or, more specificly: the mortar's *current* HQ? Al Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wingnut Posted November 7, 1999 Share Posted November 7, 1999 Hay Titan, Isnt that mortar dead now Problem Solved! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reverendo Posted November 7, 1999 Share Posted November 7, 1999 BigAlMoho, Aye, the mortar's CURRENT HQ should fit... :¬) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PeterNZ Posted November 8, 1999 Share Posted November 8, 1999 all of these things are being worked on by BTS, there's an old thread about it somewhere. They're planning something like what has been outlined by you lot. Will make it in the final release i think, or a patch just after. case closed PeterNZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Alkema Posted November 9, 1999 Share Posted November 9, 1999 Are smoke rounds for mortars a figment of Close Combat or did they really exist? (and if so will they exist in CM?) ------------------ Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted November 9, 1999 Share Posted November 9, 1999 Some do and some don't have smoke. The US 60mm mortar does not have smoke rounds. There is some conflicting info on this, but we are siding with the pile that says they didn't have them. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Deans Posted November 9, 1999 Share Posted November 9, 1999 And the two inch? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Scott Clinton Posted November 9, 1999 Share Posted November 9, 1999 Yeah, what about the good 'ol 2"? I can't wait for the Brits! ------------------ The Grumbling Grognard [This message has been edited by Scott Clinton (edited 11-08-99).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Los Posted November 9, 1999 Share Posted November 9, 1999 Guys regarding company mortars and indirect fire. One thing to keep in mind is that for them to fire with a spotter somebody had to run wire. Not to big a deal as this was done per SOP whenever possible, but it precludes firing company mortars in IF mode "on the fly" so to speak. IF it's something that has to go in, it seems to strike some sort of reasonable balance there would have to be some sort of peroior after the mortars stopped that they could then fire IF and that would have to be only to one leader (by default the Company comander or the weapons platoon leader?) You can get smoke from 81s and 120s. Los Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Deans Posted November 9, 1999 Share Posted November 9, 1999 "You can get smoke from 81s and 120s" The primary use for the Two Inch mortar was smoke.........The teeny weeny HE bombs were like grenades. Mind you, the 60mm bombs aren't that much bigger. Rob Deans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renaud Posted November 10, 1999 Share Posted November 10, 1999 Seems like a great way to implement IF for on-board mortars would be to allow command units to direct rounds to places they can see provided they have the mortars close by and in sight. Example would be mortars behind hill with command unit hiding on woods at top of hill 10 meters away but with LOS to both the mortars and the enemy targets on the other side. This wouldn't require wire to be layed and could be done on the fly I would think. -Ren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pford Posted November 10, 1999 Share Posted November 10, 1999 I can understand the LOS rule to a point. But in a game I am currently lossing, there is a burning half-tack and I wanted to fire at the area of smoke where I knew there were other units. But since I can't directly see the units behind the tree that are on fire I can't shoot. I certainly can see the smoke. May be version 2 will allow scatter firing into an area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Los Posted November 10, 1999 Share Posted November 10, 1999 Rob, Adding smoke capability to the 50 and 60mm mortars would entail simply producing the necessary evidence that they fired smoke ammunition during www2 and contacting BTS. Preferably you will need a manual from that era. Cheers... Los Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Deans Posted November 10, 1999 Share Posted November 10, 1999 So this means that the two inch can't fire smoke? I know for a fact that the ammo existed and all the manuals that I have seen state the use of the weapon as primarily smoke laying. Its the sort of thing that doesn't even get questioned when talking of this weapon in military circles. The smoke bomb was marked with a green and a red band and weighed .9 kg. As an interest point, the mortar didn't have a bipod. It's base was fixed to a rotating socket on a small "base plate" that was more of a "foot" than the common conception of a baseplate. When firing, the weapon's silouette looked like the letter "L", with the bottom part as the base plate and the upright, the barrel. The barrel was angled to the "outside" of the "L" so it appeared as an "open" L with an angle between the barrel and the baseplate greater than 90 degrees. I asume that the graphic in the game will have a bipod (too bad) and that the weapon will be treated like a normal mortar in its movement and "into action" time. This is really too bad to. There is nothing to set up with the 2". No bipod or baseplate to set up. The weapon is one piece. Jam it into the ground, point, load and fire. It is no more cumbersome than a Bren Gun and its carrier can move just as fast. Thanks Rob Deans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Los Posted November 10, 1999 Share Posted November 10, 1999 BTW have you even bothered playing the game yet? There is no setup delay you can fire the 2"/50mm/60mm virtually on the fly. And yes the 2" does have smoke. (In CM the 60mm doesn't and neither does the 50mm IIRC). Los Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Deans Posted November 10, 1999 Share Posted November 10, 1999 Yep, just haven't followed a mortar det through for a turn yet. I asumed there was some (albeit a small one) delay. Thanks for answering about the 2". Rob Deans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Scott Clinton Posted November 10, 1999 Share Posted November 10, 1999 What is there a minimum range for the 2"? It should be VERY short. It was used extensivly for house clearing because of its ability to be depressed almost horizonally. Frankly, I am of the opinion that the 60/81mm mortars in the demo (the only ones I have played with) SHOULD have a MUCH longer setup time. I would think moving a 5 (6?) man team into position, setting up ammo, aligning the weapon and getting the first round on target would take a little more time than it does now. But I am no expert, just basing this on some of the discussions on the old CC gamestats site with a current mortar man. ------------------ The Grumbling Grognard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Los Posted November 10, 1999 Share Posted November 10, 1999 RE: Mortar set up time. To be honest with you I haven't look at this in great detail but you are missing something. With anything larger than company mortars, you don't actually have the the mortar physically present on the map just the spotter so it is assumed that the offboard mortar team has already had time to lay in their stakes, set up commo etc etc. Now regarding the company mortars: Because they are all at this time only fired using direct lay, then the most time consuming part of the setup, that is laying out the stakes and surveying the mortars, is skipped. It's a simple matter of setting up the mortars with the direct lay site and going at it. That doesn't mean the delay doesn't need to be looked at. (Me personally I always leave plenty of time to set the mortars up). BTW I am speaking as someone who fires mortars about once a year, not a mortar maggot mind you, (though I did send two months with a mortar platoon on an exchange about 18 years ago) but someone who is pretty familiar with the mechanics of setting them up and firing them. Los Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renaud Posted November 10, 1999 Share Posted November 10, 1999 Has no direct applicability on CM beta, but: I've sat and watched 4.2" mortar crews practicing shaving seconds off their dismount and setup time (at Ft. Bliss El Paso Tx.) They basically dismount the mortar and baseplate from the track and set it up on the ground, doing some other mortar arcana i'm not familiar with, and voila! I seem to remember it took a little less than a minute for 3 guys to get it set up. I'm pretty sure this was for direct fire or they assumed they already knew their position. In live fire they were super-accurate (rifled tubes) and could blow the target lifter device out of a 3'x3' pit after a few ranging shots. (self directed fire of course) The explosions are really large. Imagine a 120mm mortar! -Ren Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold Jones Posted November 10, 1999 Share Posted November 10, 1999 Putting the pieces together is only part of making a mortar ready to fire. The long and involved part is in getting everything lined up so that you can fire indirectly with accuracy. If you are firing by direct lay then you can skip this part. Direct lay means that you have LOS to the target. It is possible to set a mortar below the crest of a hill and have the squad leader call fire commands and corrections back to the crew. However this is a slow and ammo intensive process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Los Posted November 10, 1999 Share Posted November 10, 1999 Well there you go! ooks like we have mortar maggot central right here and in operation. Of course the final piece of mortar prep is the rounds themsleves. No doubt when the compnay mortar teams move out they have already taken the time to break the rounds down from their shipping tubes and prepr them for fire. Then when it's time for the shoot all that is needed is to tear of cheeses, (porpellant wafers), depending on the range and angle, then set the fuze if applicable and pull the pin. But one of the ammo bearers could be starting on that while the others set up the tube. I know the Germans had a handy dandy little acrrying case for their 50mm rounds. BTW I have found the smaller mortars 50-60mm to be quite effective. They are best used not on isolated fire misisons but in conjucntin with attacks and what not as a suppressor on yoru intended target. It's just one other thing the enemy has to worry about! Los Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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