How'd I do?

[Imperial Sardaukar]

I just completed Mission 1 of Task Force Raff and I got a US Army Total Victory, with 13 men killed and another 13 wounded. I also lost 1 tank and 1 armored car. I am wondering if such losses are "acceptable" or if I could've done better?

Playing on Veteran level, turn based, I found myself confused a couple of times. Firstly, when moving my scout team to the Observation Post position, I did not see any of the enemy units even though the manual said I should see the German MG team. In fact, this was true for the whole scenario and I was left with using my other forward units to "locate" the enemy and the HQ unit on the Observation Post was simply there to ensure that the mortar fire was where I wanted it to be --- the HQ unit never saw any enemy units at all from that position.

Second, while trying to take the St. Martin Farm, I did not really know what to do. I had nearly all my troops at the overwatch position and had two squads just to the left ready to assault.... and I found that getting them to Fast-move to the stone fence closer to the farm buildings was better than having them Assault-move. With Fast, at least they get to cover quicker rather than crawling/crouching/cowering with the slower Assault. As for my overwatch troops, they were busier engaging the enemies at the crossroad objective and never saw any of the enemy troops at the farm until my first squad tried to assault the farm building only to be repelled by the troops inside.

Third, with regards to Contacts and Confirmed units... I understand the difference between the two but did not expect that the Contacts would remain for as long as it did. In fact, on the final push to the crossroad, my troops could be 20m from a "contact" with clear line-of-sight to it and the "contact" would not disappear. It'll go only after half my squad runs past it, so at the end of the battle, the map was littered with contacts which made it confusing. Same issue for the guys who were on the other side of the road fighting along the hedgerows... they'd engage an enemy "contact," find out it's a Confirmed enemy, kill it...... but then I don't know if it's safe to advance my guys as the Confirmed/Contact icon is still there! Even when I bring a tank and an armored vehicle up the road so they can see BEHIND the hedgerow where the enemy was, the icon still doesn't disappear until some of my guys are actually right next to it.

So, what do you guys think? How did I do on this mission? Am I simply confused since I'm new or are these issues that even long-time players have to work with?

[Erwin]

I played the campaign when CMBN came out so don't recall it. But, you can't do better than Total Victory.

After that you'd want to be taking less than 10% casualties, (as few as possible of course).

The problem with CM2 game scoring is that it is very "unstable." Many times when I play a CM2 scenario, I find the difference between a loss and a big victory may be only a few men.

[Rambler]

Well, how many of the enemy did you kill/wound? Regardless, you got a total victory so you did fine.

Fast also makes them tire out a lot quicker. I'd recommend using quick when you can and save fast for real emergencies.

That's normal regarding the contact icons. They'll fade out over time. I think the reason you still see them is because some units still have the info that the contact is/was there, but can't put their eyes on it to see that it doesn't exist anymore.

[Rake]

Third, with regards to Contacts and Confirmed units... I understand the difference between the two but did not expect that the Contacts would remain for as long as it did. In fact, on the final push to the crossroad, my troops could be 20m from a "contact" with clear line-of-sight to it and the "contact" would not disappear. It'll go only after half my squad runs past it, so at the end of the battle, the map was littered with contacts which made it confusing. Same issue for the guys who were on the other side of the road fighting along the hedgerows... they'd engage an enemy "contact," find out it's a Confirmed enemy, kill it...... but then I don't know if it's safe to advance my guys as the Confirmed/Contact icon is still there! Even when I bring a tank and an armored vehicle up the road so they can see BEHIND the hedgerow where the enemy was, the icon still doesn't disappear until some of my guys are actually right next to it.

Contacts have to filter down through C2. A lot of the contacts remain because units on one area of the map still don't know that a contact has been eliminated or moved out. Click on various units around the map and watch how the locations of the contacts move around depending upon the last known spotting by your highlighted unit.

Here's an example:

You won't know for sure if something is there, or not, until you get eyes on the area... It was very confusing getting started, but keep playing and it will start to make more sense.

[womble]

Second, while trying to take the St. Martin Farm, I did not really know what to do. I had nearly all my troops at the overwatch position and had two squads just to the left ready to assault.... and I found that getting them to Fast-move to the stone fence closer to the farm buildings was better than having them Assault-move. With Fast, at least they get to cover quicker rather than crawling/crouching/cowering with the slower Assault.

As you've found, Assault's not a fast way of covering ground. It's much more a convenience for unsplit squads than it is a "general" movement mode. Quick is the default movement speed. Troops don't travel "Fast" for very far before they drop to "Quick" anyway. Use Fast for crossing narrow gaps or getting the flock out of Dodge when something goes Pete Tong.

As for my overwatch troops, they were busier engaging the enemies at the crossroad objective and never saw any of the enemy troops at the farm until my first squad tried to assault the farm building only to be repelled by the troops inside.

When you're assaulting an objective, both the objective itself, and any locations that can fire on the path of your assaulting squads need to be either confirmed clear of enemy or hosed down with lead to stop the assaulting squads getting shot as they move in. "Overwatch" is fine, but you also need to direct "area fire" suppression shooting at (at least) the frontage of the building you're assaulting. It can also help for your actual assaulting teams to pause outside the building with an area fire order into the building. Thus there's a chance they'll lob in some grenades even if there are no enemy visible (suppressed or just not discovered yet).

[Imperial Sardaukar]

Thanks for the clarification guys!

I just finished Mission 2 and another Total Victory. 2 men killed and 4 wounded; I guess those are the numbers I'm more comfortable with. None killed would be better but I guess I'm a bit naive for going for that goal considering what this game is all about.

I've since learned not to trust one unit's eyes now, I keep skipping from one unit to another to confirm/verify enemy troop placement, even to the point of moving some troops to a closer hedgerow for a better view. In Mission 2, I was lucky enough to have been able to jump on to 4-5 squads of Germans from behind. I sent two squads to take out the German anti-tank group and then noticed my right flank was getting engaged from behind a hedgerow, so I sent my guys to the hedgerow BEHIND it. It was a massacre, and I did feel sorry for the German lads. This did get me thinking though --- is hedgerow-fighting better than being inside a building?

Pity I was not able to practice the Blast command, my guys were able to handle the situation just fine.

Regarding Fast vs. Quick, I did not notice Fast to be any more faster than Quick, but I did notice some of my guys would not Fast-move anymore when they were tired, so I guess another lesson learned there --- save Fast for when it really counts. However, sometimes "really counts" applies for advances as well as retreats. I think I'm a little bloodthirsty at times.

[womble]

...is hedgerow-fighting better than being inside a building?...

That depends very much on the building and the angle of incoming fire. Some buildings offer very little protection, and you can often be easily seen if you don't move Slow, so they're death traps. Other buildings are really sturdy and give very good protection against small arms, and even heavy calibre stuff. Bocage gives excellent concealment, and pretty good protection against same-elevation fires, but any plunging angle to incoming fire can negate much of that protection, and as you've noted it only offers these advantages from the one direction, whereas buildings offer all round protection, at whatever level the building provides.

Regarding Fast vs. Quick, I did not notice Fast to be any more faster than Quick...

It is, but only over very short distances. If you set two rifle teams moving, one at Fast, the other at Quick, the Fast ones will get a bit of a head start after the first minute, but then both sets will be moving Quick and the "Fast" movers won't increase their advantage, and will be at a worse fatigue state, to the extent that if you move until "Tired", the "Fast" movers will stop well before the "Quick" movers, and then be overtaken. It's worth noting that if you move at "Normal", "Quick" movers go further and can recover to Rested again before the "Normal" movers catch up with them.

One thing about Fast is that movement is prioritised over returning fire, so again, depending on how you want your troops to react, you'll choose your movement mode accordingly.

[Imperial Sardaukar]

Whew! Last mission and I felt swamped with all the units available at my disposal! And the Breaching command is awesome! TRP is quite cool too!

8 men killed, 12 wounded, and 1 tank lost to a hidden AT gun. 22 minutes elapsed since mission start. I guess this one I could've done better if I had not been in a hurry. Coordinating attacks from 3 directions is quite difficult though! Final stats come down to 23 killed, 29 wounded, 2 tanks and 1 armored vehicle lost vs. 267 killed, 158 wounded, 32 missing, 3 tanks killed, 1 armored vehicle killed (1 damaged), and 4 "other" vehicles killed. If my math is correct, that's a 1:11.6 ratio of kills, but still feel like I could've done better with the casualty rate. Such is war though, I guess.

womble, thanks for the info regarding Fast/Quick/Normal. I almost never get my guys to move in the Normal mode --- I think it's more important to get to cover first, then return fire, rather than crouching on open ground and returning fire immediately.

[thebigJ_A]

womble, thanks for the info regarding Fast/Quick/Normal. I almost never get my guys to move in the Normal mode --- I think it's more important to get to cover first, then return fire, rather than crouching on open ground and returning fire immediately.

There's more to it, though. If they're moving Fast, they're paying less attention to their surroundings. They're less likely to notice a threat, possibly until it's far too late.

[womble]

womble, thanks for the info regarding Fast/Quick/Normal.

You're welcome.

I almost never get my guys to move in the Normal mode...

Probably a good habit to maintain. I can't remember the last time I gave a Normal move order to infantry. For tanks, it can help with their maneuvrability: they don't overrun waypoints as often.

I think it's more important to get to cover first, then return fire, rather than crouching on open ground and returning fire immediately.

Sometimes. Sometimes it's better to get some return suppression going early, and often going prone will put your guys in cover/concealment anyway. It's situational. Fast certainly has its place.

[Michael Emrys]

"Overwatch" is fine, but you also need to direct "area fire" suppression shooting at (at least) the frontage of the building you're assaulting.

Since your vehicles also have .50 cal MGs, you might be wise to use them due to their better penetration.

One other thing to be alert for, one time in playing this scenario I had spent a fair amount of time hosing down the first building and figured anybody inside would be dead or sufficiently suppressed, so I sent a team inside. Unbeknownst to me, the AI had very cleverly withdrawn its troops and placed them immediately behind the building where they were sheltered from my fire, yet could still fire into the building. Needless to say, when my team entered, they were wiped out to the last man.

Michael