Reverendo Posted November 12, 1999 Share Posted November 12, 1999 Are we going to see tanks with multiple turrets in the final version of CM, like the Grant or Lee? In this case, how will the AI handle them? May they track separate targets? And one last question. Do you know of any battle appearance of the Soviet T-35? I read about this tank yesterday, and I just couldn't imagine such a colossus. Do you have any stats for it? The only thing I know is that it had 5 turrets, 10 crewmen, a 76,2mm gun, two 45mm guns and five machine guns (this is the firepower of a Panzer IV and two Panzer III!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawk Posted November 12, 1999 Share Posted November 12, 1999 The T-35 had also notoriously thin armor and it's only achievement was looking good in parades! Just kidding, but I think the T-35 did have so thin armor that it wasn't thought to be combat worthy and thus saw little action. I don't think there was many multiple turret tanks in action in western europe during 1944 and 1945. I could however be dead wrong, and if so, I guess some Grognards will correct me pretty quick! Hawk ------------------ Our's is not to reason "why", our's is but to do and die! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tss Posted November 12, 1999 Share Posted November 12, 1999 The Soviets had (IIRC) 6 tanks with more than one turret. Four of the tanks were production models: T-35 was the huge 5-turretted beast (1x76mm, 1x45 mm, 3xMG or 1x76mm, 2x45mm, and 2xMG), T-28 was a medium tank with three turrets (1x76mm, 2xMG), and both T-26 and T-37 had versions with 2 mg turrets. The two other tanks were almost identical SMK and T-100, both having two turrets, one with 45mm gun and another with a large gun (76? 122? 152? I'm not sure and my sources are away). Only one prototype of both was manufactured and they field tested at Summa against Finnish defences during the Winter War. The SMK broke through Finnish lines but was stopped by a mechanical malfunction (or it hit a mine, accounts differ). The Finns tried to tow it away, but it was too heavy and stayed in place until the Soviet breakthrough two months later. I don't remember what exactly happened to T-100, but it too broke down and Soviets did not have equipment capable of towing the beast, either. Anyway, the first prototype of KV-I was present at the same tests and it was seen to be clearly better than either SMK or T-100, and the other projects were canceled. Finnish sources claim that Soviets used T-35s during Winter War, but Soviet sources deny it. Given the technical knowledge of an average Finnish infantryman of the time, I would trust the Soviet account more. (Identifying Soviet tanks was not exactly a precision science back then, the main categories were "small", "large", and "very large"). IIRC, a couple of hundreds of T-35s were used in 1941. In theory it should have been the most powerful tank of the time, but in practice it performed very poorly. The tank was way too heavy and the five turrets weighted so much that the armor had to be surprisingly thin. It could be destroyed even with a 37mm AT gun if hit a correct place. The tank was impossible to camouflage and the commander was overtaxed. The final fatal flaw was mechanical reliability. I remember once reading a table that showed the T-35 losses of one tank army. I don't remember the exact numbers, but roughly only 10% of the losses were caused by Germans, the rest were lost because of breakdowns. -Tommi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest L Tankersley Posted November 12, 1999 Share Posted November 12, 1999 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Are we going to see tanks with multiple turrets in the final version of CM, like the Grant or Lee?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I don't think the Grant or Lee had multiple turrets; I believe they had a turretted 37mm gun and a bow-mounted 75 with limited traverse. I would certainly expect that we'd see them, probably around CM3 or CM4, whichever is covering the North Africa campaigns. I wouldn't count on them in CM1 though. Leland J. Tankersley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guachi Posted November 13, 1999 Share Posted November 13, 1999 I grabbed a reference book off my shelf and I'll pass along what it has. T-28 had a short-barreled 76mm gun on earlier versions and a long-barreled on later versions. MGs were mounted in two turrets mounted forward of the main turret. Armor ranged from 20-80mm on the various models. The tanks were of little combat value mostly being used against the Finns. The T-35 was a huge tank with a crew of 11. Check out these dimensions - 9.72 m long, 3.2 m wide, and 3.43 m high. It had five turrets with a 76.2mm gun in the main turret and two of the smaller turrets had 37mm or 45mm guns. I think the other two turrets had MGs. Armor ranged from 10-30mm. Hawk is correct when he says its only achievement was looking good in parades. All of the T-35s served in one tank brigade stationed near Moscow and were featured regularly in Red Square parades. I can imagine that a T-35 would look impressive in a parade. The tank had five turrets, none of which were effective against tanks and it had armor so thin that even the weakest German AT gun could penetrate it. Plus, it was so big and slow that it would be hard to miss it. Jason Jason Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted November 13, 1999 Share Posted November 13, 1999 There are no multiple turreted tanks in CM's timeframe, so this is not something we are dealing with right now. But yes... when we move East we will have to do something about this... Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingtiger Posted November 14, 1999 Share Posted November 14, 1999 Wanna see the multi-turreted Russian Behemoth? Wanna hear more about it? Also has some very funny stories about it's battle-field history. Here is the Russian KV-VI "Behemoth" http://www.track-link.net/gallery/data/kvvibf.html HERE is the T-35: http://www.track-link.net/gallery/data/t35vd.html Richard Kalajian [This message has been edited by kingtiger (edited 11-14-99).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dateimoerder Posted November 14, 1999 Share Posted November 14, 1999 The Lee version tank most certainly did have a double turret. The difference with it is that the turrets were stacked one on the other. There was a 75mm gun mounted in a bow-type slot with 10 degree limited traverse. There was then a 37mm gun mounted on a 360 degree traverse turret. ontop of this was a 360 degree traverse .30cal machinegun turret (used by the commander/loader). So in essense the Lee did have two turrets, though one only mounted a machinegun. It should be noted that some versions had no machine gun turret... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted November 14, 1999 Share Posted November 14, 1999 Yeah, when we get to CM 3 (North Africa specifically) we are going to have to deal with the screwed up Grant and Lee tanks! The main gun isn't in a turret, which messes up the system right now. At the moment the main gun is assumed to be in the turret if there is a turret, otherwise it is in the hull. But the system right now doesn't allow there to be a main gun in the hull, a secondary in a turret, and (in the case of a Lee) ANOTHER turret with a gun. Argh... Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard III Posted November 14, 1999 Share Posted November 14, 1999 Does that mean we won't be seeing this vehicle in CM? How would you model a co-axial 75 anyway? [This message has been edited by Richard III (edited 11-14-99).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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