Russian Civil War

[Ghost of war]

I have just finished playing RCW campaign against AI as Bolsheviks. In my opinion it's one of the best campaigns in SC games ever, I really look forward to playing against human opponents. Although your AAR is still in progress I decided to share couple of things I noticed during my game.

1. Northern Whites- after capturing Archangel their capital is moved to Murmansk and real fun begins . I couldn't defeat them until the very end of game because the land north/north west of Gulf of Onega is frozen all year round, even in summer. Therefore the effectiveness of any attacks is close to zero. I don't know if the weather was set like this for purpose, but as far as I know, in reality they have summer in Murmansk. Well maybe not as pleasant as in St. Tropez, but I bet the ground is not frozen: http://www.accuweather.com/en/ru/murmansk/294076/month/294076?monyr=7/01/2012.

I don't have any links to weather forecast in 1920, but I guess it was similar then .

So even when I engaged 5 army corps, one heavy art., one armored train and two HQ units, I wasn't able to defeat 3 divisions of Northern Whites, entrenched around Murmansk. And I had pretty good supply between 5 and 7.

2. French political standing- when French troops advanced towards the heart of Mother Russia , their political standing began to drop, as expected. However at some point it stopped (around 5) and they remained in game until the end. I saw their units in the Ukraine, west of Kharkov. Is it possible to stop the decreasing of French political standing even if their units are far from Odessa where they initially land? Or is it more like a bug in my game?

3. My Red Army conquered some smaller states in the east and south, i.e. Kuban Cossacks and Ural Cossacks. They haven’t surrender although I occupied all their cities and destroyed all of their units (in each case only one HQ remained). Ural Cossacks finally surrendered three or four turns later, however Kuban Cossacks technically remained in the game till the end. So again my question is it normal or is it a bug?

4. Armored trains- it is really hard to destroy armored trains in the game. In my game Southern Whites moved one of their trains to the city of Rostov and I must admit I have broken my teeth trying to destroy it. Don’t you think their strength is exaggerated in the game?

I know that they were widely used by both sides in Russian Civil War, at some point Red Army had around 100 vehicles of this type. Yet they were not used on the first line of combat, because of large vulnerability to enemy infantry attacks. They were more like artillery support or even served as a mobile HQ. In the game they seem pretty much like an equivalent of heavy tanks. Besides they were not standard weapon as it may seem. Some of them were designed by Russian naval engineers, so they were like cruisers on wheels. But some were created ad hoc during war and had little value in terms of combat support.

Here are some great photos of armored trains if anyone fancies: http://strangengines.wordpress.com/2008/08/20/soviet-armored-trains-russian-civil-war/

[Sapare]

I do agree that the armored trains are really really difficult to kill. I am not sure if they are meant to be.(there stats are officaly 1/1) I played as whites against AI and even with an armored train cut off and at 0 supply I could only do 1 damage with 7 supply, charge boon, leveled up once horse units.(10 strengh) The only way I was ever able to efficently kill one was by cutting it off, surrounding it with armies and shooting at it with heavy guns/attacking two turns in a row.(if they are in 0 supply you can o 1 damage per well strenghed/supplied army, but against a normal unit this would be like 6 or 7 damage.

[Ivanov]

1. Northern Whites- after capturing Archangel their capital is moved to Murmansk and real fun begins . I couldn't defeat them until the very end of game because the land north/north west of Gulf of Onega is frozen all year round, even in summer. Therefore the effectiveness of any attacks is close to zero. I don't know if the weather was set like this for purpose, but as far as I know, in reality they have summer in Murmansk. Well maybe not as pleasant as in St. Tropez, but I bet the ground is not frozen: http://www.accuweather.com/en/ru/murmansk/294076/month/294076?monyr=7/01/2012.

I don't have any links to weather forecast in 1920, but I guess it was similar then .

So even when I engaged 5 army corps, one heavy art., one armored train and two HQ units, I wasn't able to defeat 3 divisions of Northern Whites, entrenched around Murmansk. And I had pretty good supply between 5 and 7.

Great post! The 2-4 will need to be looked at by Bill or Hubert and if it comes to the 1, I agree! Recently I have read an article about Russian women wearing high hills all year around, even in such a god forsaken places like Murmansk and it seems, that in summer the wheather and atmosphere there are pretty warm and friendly

[carverrt]

The weather is the same as the basic WW1 game. That part of the map was not used until now, so we have some surprises.

Interesting what happened to the French advance, we never saw that in testing. We’ll take a look at the scripts and make sure they are working correctly.

Funny you should mention the state of armored trains; those units have gone through some changes. At one point we did have them with artillery capabilities. We’ll look at this again.

I am so glad you like the game. There are so many people that worked on this and I know that your complement is well received.

If you want a tough opponent for a head to head game challenge Michal, he mauled me in every test game.

[Ghost of war]

Thanks for everyone's feedback. I am glad I'm not the only one who struggled with weather and armored trains .

Ivanov, great photo. Do you maybe have a phone number for that lady in heels ?

Hey Carverrt, I loved the game. I never played Russian Civil War strategy game before. You guys are real pioneers .

[Ivanov]

I am so glad you like the game. There are so many people that worked on this and I know that your complement is well received.

Just for the record for all those who don't read the credits - Robert is the real mastermind behind RCW, as the campaign is of his design. So kudos to him!

[Ivanov]

Ivanov, great photo. Do you maybe have a phone number for that lady in heels ?

I think it would be illegal to post it here but I have another photo form a Russian High Hell Race competition:

This skill may come handy in an urban situation, when they are about to be late for a bus or metro. And of course it's incredibly sexist...

[Ghost of war]

Wow, they have nice competitions in Russia .

The competitor on the right didn't make it due to low morale and lack of revolutionary vigilance.

[Bill101]

The competitor on the right didn't make it due to low morale and lack of revolutionary vigilance.

You took the words right out of my mouth!

[Bill101]

Good points all round on the feedback and we'll be looking into them.

[Bill101]

Just for the record for all those who don't read the credits - Robert is the real mastermind behind RCW, as the campaign is of his design. So kudos to him!

Definitely.

[Ivanov]

The competitor on the right didn't make it due to low morale and lack of revolutionary vigilance.

She could be also an imperialist agent. You never know

[Ghost of war]

I started playing as the Whites this time and I must say there is much more fun now . Bolsheviks' position as a little bit better, because they have centralised area with quite high MPPs production every turn. They take heavy beating at the beginning but they are able to rebuild their armies. The Whites are actually three different factions. Their MPPs production may be high but divided into three parts is just not enough . Although it is extremely difficult for the Reds to eliminate even one of the factions. Against AI, I managed to eliminate Ural Whites, but I was simply lucky, as AI put a division with 5 strenght in Ekatierinburg. If they placed Kolczak HQ there, it wouldn't be so simple to take the city. Additionally the Brits, French and Americans will finally leave Russia, if the Whites attempt to use them more actively, so in long term they cannot be relied on.

Anyway, hats off to Carverrt for the whole concept of the campaign . Playing both sides, I especially liked decision events. Although bolsheviks' ones are better: Cheka, death penalty in the army- these make you feel the atmosphere of the revolution .

[Karhu]

Hats off to all concerned for the great scenario on the Russian Civil War. Am having a blast with it, especially in multiplayer. It's chaos, but/and great fun.

A couple of things, partly in support of what's gone before:

1. The armoured trains do seem a bit overpowered defensively. They seem to be stronger than tanks, which can't be right. But I love the idea of a mobile artillery unit which is limited to railway tracks - adds a whole new dimension to the game, and increases the value of cavalry (to free up those tracks).

2. I also took the Don Cossak capital, expecting them to surrender. No such luck, even after several turns. Is it meant to be that way? If not, at what point will they surrender?

3. Don't buy an armoured train for the North-Western Whites! You'll have nowhere to place it. Doh! Perhaps this option could be shaded out in the unit purchase menu.

4. Some of the Ukrainian flags in-game (those on the capital and on generals, but not on other units) are upside-down. Think blue sky over fields of golden wheat...

5. Has anybody taken Ekaterinburg against a human opponent?

[carverrt]

Hi Karhu,

Thanks for the complements; I think we enjoyed making this game as much everyone else is enjoying playing in.

The armored train issue is something we are looking into. You know, that type of unit is so new and we are just learning how to fit it into the games.

Don’t know why the Don’s don’t surrender, that’s something else we can look into.

You are kidding me – we messed up on the NW White train. We could add some tracks or just take the unit out of the force pool; good catch.

We’ll look the flags over. But the Western Ukraine’s flag is a reversed version of Ukraine's.

Ekaterinburg will be tough to capture, that was intended.

Robert

[Karhu]

Hi Robert,

Thanks for the quick feedback.

As far as the NW Whites are concerned, I'd be in favour of blanking out the option for armoured trains rather than inventing a railway line that wasn't there.

The inverted Ukrainian flag is on Kiev and the Petliura HQ, so maybe the Western Ukraine flag got carried over to them by mistake.

Thanks again for the great game!

[Bill101]

Hi

With regards to the surrender of either the Don or Kuban Cossacks, or indeed of any other minor, if they have any units remaining within their country when their capital is taken then they have only a 50% chance per turn of surrendering, and none if they still have two units within their country.

So, capturing the capital isn't enough, but their forces will have to be smashed or driven away too.

Ghost of War, (or Karhu, if the situation was identical with you with respect to the Don Cossacks) I know that you said that the Kuban Cossacks had no units left. Do you have a saved turn that would show this?

Only they should surrender in this instance, and if not then we'll have to investigate.

Thanks!

Bill

[Ghost of war]

Bill, I don't save games when playing against AI, so I don't have any saved turns. Aparently, I haven't destroyed all their units. I bet this was the issue. Thanks for clarifying the situation with surrendering.

[Karhu]

Thanks for clearing that up, Bill. I'd certainly not destroyed all their units either, and it makes sense that they wouldn't surrender immediately after their capital was taken in a sneak attack. Cossacks are made of sterner stuff than that, after all...