I thought this was amusing on Romney's visit

[Stalins Organ]

Did Abe golf?

Would he have admitted it if he did?

[Bigduke6]

See? I told you I was right.

The Founding Fathers had it right. Problem is the Constitution has not been followed and thus corrupted by the politicians and special interests. The country has been stolen and much of the electorate is distracted, over medicated and socially isolated. We depend on an informed electorate.

[dieseltaylor]

Originally Posted by dpabrams

The Founding Fathers had it right. Problem is the Constitution has not been followed and thus corrupted by the politicians and special interests. The country has been stolen and much of the electorate is distracted, over medicated and socially isolated. We depend on an informed electorate.

I could not agree more with your final analysis.

The problem that may have been unseeable to the founding fathers was the growth of massive media and the discovery that people are actually easily triggered and bamboozled. Once you learn how to manipulate people en masse can you rely on politicians not to do it?

A commission to pre-vet all adverts for truthfulness.? No advertising by special interests ? Limitation on advertising other than in paper form? I don't know the answer but if democracy is to survive effevtively it needs to give people time and proper resaoned arguments.

One of the advantages if the media is taken out is there will be less need to pander for money by the candidates.

[gautrek]

Where you all taught by David Axelrod?

Is he the guy from Guns and Roses?

[Michael Emrys]

One of the advantages if the media is taken out is there will be less need to pander for money by the candidates.

Surely you jest? Politicians have been accepting bribes for thousands of years. Only the rationales offered have changed, and then not much.

Michael

[dpabrams]

A commission to pre-vet all adverts for truthfulness.? No advertising by special interests ? Limitation on advertising other than in paper form?

Limits on free speech and surely a violation of the 2nd Amendment. So much could be solved simply with term limitations.

[Bigduke6]

An educational system designed to produce adults with critical thinking skills and a basic understanding of their country's history, rather than mindless consumers with gnat attention spans, would also be a big help.

[dieseltaylor]

Limits on free speech and surely a violation of the 2nd Amendment. So much could be solved simply with term limitations.

Whilst finding it admirable that you can look to the 2nd Amendment isn't that the right to bear arms?

The First Amendment (Amendment I) to the United States Constitution is part of the Bill of Rights. The amendment ...... abridging the freedom of speech,...

If freedom of speech is about people talking to each other - and interacting with question and answers then I can see the point. Or newspaper articles which can be rebutted in a similar way.

Now the question is did the founders actually consider a case where people would be assailed with snappy comments and outright lies with no opportunity to interact? My guess is that they did not.

I also guess that the psychology of instilling fear and loathing was less understood in the 18th century. Being scared of Indians and Hessians notwithstanding.

[dpabrams]

Whilst finding it admirable that you can look to the 2nd Amendment isn't that the right to bear arms?.

Oops. You are correct, 1st Amendment is Right to Free Speech. An example of what is allowed under free speech:

The Supreme Court recently ruled that the Stolen Valor Act was unconstitutional. The act made it criminal to boast or claim that you had won service medals, I.E. a Medal of Honor for example. So you can lie all you want about winning the Medal of Honor as it is considered free speech.

[dpabrams]

An educational system designed to produce adults with critical thinking skills and a basic understanding of their country's history, rather than mindless consumers with gnat attention spans, would also be a big help.

So true, so true. We American's are taught so little history it's criminal.

[dieseltaylor]

That Valor Act reversal stinks but for this bit:

The Act made it illegal for unauthorized persons to wear, buy, sell, barter, trade, or manufacture "any decoration or medal authorized by Congress for the armed forces of the United States, or any of the service medals or badges awarded to the members of such forces."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stolen_Valor_Act

In the UK you can sell your medals and I think that is only right. Wearing medals to which you are not entitled is bad. However wearing a Napoleonic medal would obviously be different from wearing a medal to deceive.

I nust admit I am shocked to the core that deceit gets specific approval in the judgement - is this because they realise most of the politicos might be jailed! :; ) Apparently for some judges there are no grades of deceit and therefore all are protected.

The treatment of the veteran who came across the MOH fraudster is positively distressing:

On a tour bus trip to Southern California Edison’s Big Creek power plant, event planner Melissa Campbell was passing out snacks to dignitaries when one of them asked her a question that would change both of their lives and make U.S. judicial history.

“Do you know who I am?” asked Xavier Alvarez, an elected member of a local water board, not waiting for an answer.

“I am a Congressional Medal of Honor recipient.”

Nearly five years later, Mr. Alvarez, who never served in the military, stands among dozens who have been convicted under the federal Stolen Valor Act, a misdemeanor crime that carries a sentence of up to one year of imprisonment for lying about receiving military honors. After Mr. Alvarez’s appeal, his widely publicized case recently went before the U.S. Supreme Court.

Less attention has been paid to the fate of the woman who helped expose Mr. Alvarez and who brought him to the attention of the FBI. Ms. Campbell, the event planner serving Mr. Alvarez snacks on June 27, 2007, was a U.S. Marine Corps veteran who served her country for 10 years.

But after exposing Mr. Alvarez’s medal claim as a hoax — later reporting to the FBI what she viewed as a crime in progress — Ms. Campbell said she wasn’t thanked by her employer. Instead, she said, she was fired.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/mar/6/exposer-in-stolen-valor-case-fired/

[gunnergoz]

"To err is human...to really screw things up takes lawyers."