Glubokii Boy Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 I have started to look at diffrent formations in the editor to get a better understanding of how they were organized...The organisation of some of the formations strike me as somewhat 'strange'...For example: WAFFEN SS PANZER GRENADIER BATTALION (armoured): The use of halftracks... 1st and 3rd companies have only their 2nd platoon and their weaponsplatoons mounted in halftracks...1st and 3rd platoons are without transport (not even trucks). 2nd companie have their 1st, 2nd and weaponsplatoon mounted in halftracks but not their 3rd platoon (no transport) 4th companie only has the weaponplatoon mounted in halftracks...none of the other platoons have any transport what so ever. Questions that comes to mind... - is this battalion up to full strenth (100 % of its equipment ) or has some equipment been removed to simulate losses and the 'normal' strenth such a battalion would have during this time and place ? if not... I don't understand why they distributed the halftracks the way they did...some platoons in the companie mounted and some on foot...Would this not make it more difficult for the companie to fight as a unit (the foot-soldiers in one platoon having difficulty keeping up with the other platoons mounted in halftracks...atleast when moving longer distansis... Why not keep 2 companies fully motorized and 2 on foot if there where not enough halftracks to equip the entire battalion...Especially the 2nd companie seems 'strange'...The entire companie except 3rd platoon is mounted in halftracks...Lets say 2nd companie gets ordered to do a flanking manuver...everybody is very mobile except 3rd platoon that gets left bihind and have no way of keeping up with the rest of the companie speeding away in their halftracks... An other OOB question...Mortars 2nd companie is the only companie in the battalion that has mortars in the weapons platoon (two 81mm). The other companies only have HMGs and Stummels in their weapon platoons. two 81mm mortars for the entire battalion ? Was that all they had ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 You can set them as mounted or dismounted, it depends on your choice. If you choose mounted then you lose one of the men from the rifle squads to man the MG on the halftrack. I don't know what you mean with the mortars. Each company has two medium mortars. You can set those as on-map or off-map, again, your choice. In addition there's four 120mm mortars. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glubokii Boy Posted July 30, 2012 Author Share Posted July 30, 2012 Hello Sergei.. Yes i understand that i can change them from mounted to dismounted if i wish but basically what i'm woundering is if the 'default' setup in the editor when i buy a formation gives me a 100 % fully equiped formation according to their real life OOB or do i get a somewhat depleted formation ? The way i did it...I bought a Waffen SS panzer grenadier battalion in the editor...made no changes to it at all...checked that it is set to full headcount and what i got was A battalion that was only partially motorized... like i described in first post...and with only two 81mm mortars attached to one of the weaponplatoons...the other companies have no mortars in their weapon platoons... My question...Is THIS a fully equiped battalion...(guess not) My thinking was that i would use the editor be able to look at the various formations and 'see' how they where equiped and organized when at 100 % of their RL OOB but the 'default' selections in the editor does not seem to give me a 100% fully equiped formation...or does it ? am i doing something wrong ? Thanks... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glubokii Boy Posted July 30, 2012 Author Share Posted July 30, 2012 Hello Sergei.. Yes i understand that i can change them from mounted to dismounted if i wish but basically what i'm woundering is if the 'default' setup in the editor when i buy a formation gives me a 100 % fully equiped formation according to their real life OOB or do i get a somewhat depleted formation ? The way i did it...I bought a Waffen SS panzer grenadier battalion in the editor...made no changes to it at all...checked that it is set to full headcount and what i got was A battalion that was only partially motorized... like i described in first post...and with only two 81mm mortars attached to one of the weaponplatoons...the other companies have no mortars in their weapon platoons... My question...Is THIS a fully equiped battalion...(guess not) My thinking was that i would use the editor be able to look at the various formations and 'see' how they where equiped and organized when at 100 % of their RL OOB but the 'default' selections in the editor does not seem to give me a 100% fully equiped formation...or does it ? am i doing something wrong ? Thanks... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 No, I'm pretty sure that by default you will get a mix of mounted and dismounted. You'll also get a mix of grenadier and fusilier, and mix of - for the US - squads with and without bazookas, a mix of - for the UK - sections with and without PIATs, etc. If you want to force everyone to have the same level of equipment you need to go through the options at the bottom of the unit purchase screen and change things from 'Default' to whatever it is that you exactly want. Think of 'Default' as what a typical unit in action might have, rather than what a fully equipped unit freshly painted out of the factory is supposed to have. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eltorrente Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 I just looked in the editor to see what is up. I checked it with "infantry only" "mech infantry" and "mix", and used waffen SS. In every grenadier battalion I looked at, the 4th platoon of each company has 2 81mm mortors, plus MG's, stummels, or whatever. All battalions also include a heavy company that includes either 4 x 120mm heavy mortars or anti tank weapons. So, each battalion has AT LEAST 6 81mm mortars in addition to whatever is in the heavy company. Tell us which exact battalion you purchased - armored/motorized, and what setup - infantry, mech infantry, mixed, and maybe we can figure out what you are talking about. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
akd Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 I think the default setting has a random selection for mounted/dismounted. For a battalion with all troops mounted, just set all the bottom options to mounted where you have the choice. The mounted/dismounted selections are not meant to portray alternate TO&E or non-standard formations. They simply reflect the reality that infantry would often dismount far outside the bounds of a typical CM map so motor transport should not always be present on the battlefield. The mortars also default to a random mix of on-map and off-map option selections. All the mortars are likely available, but some may be on-map while others while others are only available through the artillery support menu. Again, if you want them all on the map, make sure all the options are set to "on-map". If you are purchasing forces for a QB and using the Infantry-only selection, you will see dismounted-only versions of motorized units like panzergrenadiers. There will be no option to mount/dismount with these. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 Like akd says the 'default' setting is always randomized, with perhaps some bias toward historical likelihood. If you click repeatedly on the default option or repurchase the formation, you will get different random outcomes each time. The armored PzGren battalion is always fully armoured, the dismounted platoons just have left their halftracks behind. The choice is not between a fully equipped platoon and a less equipped platoon, it's between having nine men in a squad and the halftracks waiting in the rear or having eight men in a squad while the ninth man is acting as the machinegunner. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glubokii Boy Posted July 30, 2012 Author Share Posted July 30, 2012 JonS No...I don't want everybody to be the same when i PLAY the game...This kind of varaity is absolutely fine ! I just thought that checking in the editor might be a good way to learn how the various formations in the game were equiped and organized when they were at full strenth (100 % of their OOB). Seeing this panzer grenadier battalion that i bought in the editor made me doubt that it really was at full strenth... I just wanted to get an answer to that question...If looking in the editor like this would show me the fully equiped formations...And the answer is no. "Think of 'Default' as what a typical unit in action might have, rather than what a fully equipped unit freshly painted out of the factory is supposed to have." Thank you ! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eltorrente Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 The choice is not between a fully equipped platoon and a less equipped platoon, it's between having nine men in a squad and the halftracks waiting in the rear or having eight men in a squad while the ninth man is acting as the machinegunner. Yup, for armored grenadiers - but it should be noted that you also have the choice of having 11 men per squad, if you get the motorized grenadier battalion. Also, the motorized grenadiers are the only ones who you can split a squad into three sections - but ONLY IF you equip them with panzershreks. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted July 30, 2012 Share Posted July 30, 2012 I just wanted to get an answer to that question...If looking in the editor like this would show me the fully equiped formations...And the answer is no. Ok, I understand, and that's a good idea. The way to get what you're after - as everyone has pointed out - is to change all the 'default' settings to explicitly what you want - mounted/dismounted, schreck/no schreck, on-map mortars/off-map mortars, grenadier/fusilier, 251/1 / 251/3, etc. And when you do that the answer is 'yes!" 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glubokii Boy Posted July 30, 2012 Author Share Posted July 30, 2012 eltorrente Just checked..the mortars were avaliable as OFF-MAP artillery SORRY ! (missed that...) I was organizing the battalion platoon by platoon and companie by companie on the game map and could not find thoose mortars anywhere... Waffen SS panzer granadier battalion (armoured) Sergei "The armored PzGren battalion is always fully armoured, the dismounted platoons just have left their halftracks behind." Thanks 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted July 31, 2012 Share Posted July 31, 2012 the dismounted platoons just have left their halftracks behind. Everybody remember where we parked? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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