Request for some tactical advice

[Azon]

I've recently decided to start playing CMBN again after Commonwealth came out. I love the game, but I always seem to mess up something which either causes a large amount of friendly casualties or I run out of time.

I'm a RT player (tried WeGo a few times and was never too fond of it) that mostly plays the Germans, I started out playing on Veteran but changed to Basic Training to understand the game better. I've looked searched these forums and have watched tutorial videos which has helped me a lot.

There are a few questions that I still have though. Here is what I typically do in a attack scenario.

I begin by trying to guess where the enemy will most likely be located (hills, buildings, bocage etc...) and look for flanking opportunities. I have a bit of trouble figuring out where to attack when there is nothing really but open ground. What are some ways to approach unavoidable large stretches of open ground?

Split off 1-3 scout teams from squads and move from cover to cover with them to recon suspected enemy positions. Should I move the rest of my guys to areas that are clear or keep them back at the setup zone (what I do now) until I know where the enemy is?

Once I find some enemies I do my best to keep the scouts out of combat and keep using them to find a weak point in their defense. At this point is when I move a platoon or two up to where the enemy was located, trying to maintain C2.

I keep much of my force back as reserves (might be one of my problems). As I usually only send 1-3 infantry platoons and an HMG up along with a tank (if I have one) which I keep back in case of AT guns.

Once I make contact with a platoon I concentrate my fire on the enemy (for fire superiority) and split off an assault team to try and flank (or charge if I'm forced due to terrain or other enemies) once the enemy is pinned. This most of the time results in a notable amount of causalities (4-7) on my side (not sure if that is an acceptable amount for such action). This seems to be what I have the most trouble with.

I work like this towards the objectives, using artillery (if I have it) to suppress larger groups of enemies and take out AT guns. I have a tough time figuring out what kind of mission to call (area, duration, intensity, etc...) for different situations. What are the most useful mission combinations for most situations?

I avoid their artillery as much as I can by guessing where the main barrage will be from the spotting rounds.

By the time I need to capture the last objective I have around 5 minutes left which in 95% of the cases isn't enough.

Can anyone give me advice that could help me avoid losing men or properly conduct an assault? Defense advice would help also but I'm mainly focusing on attacking for the moment.

[black_prince]

It sounds to me as though you are doing alot of things right.

If I have dedicated recon assets then I usually send them up the flanks of the map, far ahead of my main force. I'll use scout teams split from infantry squads to look ahead and usually keep the rest of the platoon about one field back. So long as you're keeping an eye out (as you already are) for enemy fire missions, this shouldn't expose your forces to too much danger and will save you some time.

The type of artillery fire mission you use will tend to vary depending on:

the type of target

the assets available,

how much time there is left on the clock,

the enemy that you're facing

what you are hoping to achieve

If you are just trying to fly swat a single fire team taking cover behind bocage with a single 60mm mortar then a point attack on 'light, short' should be adequate. If you ahve two tube firng you can use 'light, quick'. If you are firing on a platoon defensive line in foxholes behind bocage then 2x81mm mortars on a linear target on either 'light or medium, short' should suppres them nicely. Of course, the larger the area you are suppressing the more intense your fire mission will need to be. I usually tend to restrict my area fire to no greater than 100 or 150 metres at most with 50 metres being the optimum when using mortars or 105mm and 25 pounder guns. Light intensity is usually adequate for area fire missions of 50 metre radius. For larger area fire missions, I would usually use medium or heavy depending on what duration I was going to choose. If you are using the 'heavy' intensity then I would recommend having only a short or quick duration as there is a danger of the guns overheating and the fire mission ending more quickly than you anticipated.

Shorter, more intense fire missions are useful when you have troops in contact and need to rapidly suppress the enemy or when targeting a particular enemy asset such as a gun or afv. If you are trying to cover troops advancing over open ground then a lighter barrage, longer in duration will be more useful. The 'medium' intensity is useful when you want to quickly suppress an enemy and then coverr an advance against their position. If you are trying to soften up a tough objective such as woods and you have sufficient time and assets available, then a 'light,maximum' can be useful as surivors of the barrage will have no time in which to recover their morale.

There are only so many ways you can deal with open ground.

1-Avoid it.

Take another look at the map. Do you really need to use this aveenue of approach?

2-Is it really devoid of cover?

What may at first glance look like billiard table country can sometimes, on closer inspection, harbour slight rises or depressions that can provide invaluable cover for your men. Be sure to get down to zoom level 1 and have a good look at the ground.

3-Smoke

Smoke screens provide an excellent means of obscuring your advance and assisting your men in closing with the enemy. Of course, they are only effective if you have sufficient smoke producing assets. Check 'conditions' in the menu and take into account the stenght and direction of the wind when planning your smoke screen.

4-Overwhelming firepower

The only other way to ensure acceptable casualties when advancing over open ground is to ensure that you have a very strong base of fire with good los on enemy positions. Use indirect fires to maximum effect with ling duration fire missions to ensure there are shells falling on the enemy througout your advance.

I think the main problem that you have is that it is can be very difficult to complete larger missions in the alloted time when playing RT. In the past I always played RT and would often find myself having to make a mad rush towards the end of the scenario, usually resulting in higher casualties than I would otherwise have taken. Like you, I would usually find myself playing most of the mission with only a small part of my force. There are ways of saving time in RT but the best advice I can give you is to try WEGO again.

When CW was released I found that I was staring to spend so much of my time issuing orders on pause that I might as well play WEGO. I've been using it for the last few days and I am actually enjoying the game a lot more now as I'm able to fully utilise my forces and implement tactics properly. I now find that I can complete scenarios and take all of the objectives assigned within the time alloted in most instances. There have only been two incidents which had me wishing that I had been playing in RT but as I've spent more time playing WEGO I've learned ways of avoiding such incidents. In addition, I'm now looking forward to being able to play PBEMs in the future.

[Erwin]

I find it hard to complete missions in the allotted time even in WEGO. For some reason this has gotten worse in CW than with US forces, even though the Brits were famous for enhanced caution as they simply could not afford to lose men the way the US could.

Also, the Brits relied on heavy arty extensively. This has not been represented as much as I was expecting in CW - making CW imo hard to win than playing the better-supplied US.

Am enjoying the German campaign much more as they seem to be about the same difficulty as the base game.

[~Viajero]

When CW was released I found that I was staring to spend so much of my time issuing orders on pause that I might as well play WEGO.

This.

Once I find some enemies I do my best to keep the scouts out of combat and keep using them to find a weak point in their defense. At this point is when I move a platoon or two up to where the enemy was located, trying to maintain C2.

I keep much of my force back as reserves (might be one of my problems). As I usually only send 1-3 infantry platoons and an HMG up along with a tank (if I have one) which I keep back in case of AT guns.

Once I make contact with a platoon I concentrate my fire on the enemy (for fire superiority) and split off an assault team to try and flank (or charge if I'm forced due to terrain or other enemies) once the enemy is pinned. This most of the time results in a notable amount of causalities (4-7) on my side (not sure if that is an acceptable amount for such action). This seems to be what I have the most trouble with.

I ve selected this bit for discussion, because is typically where the "meat" of the issue is on attacks.

Keeping "much" of one´s forces back as reserves or not is an art and it may depend on lots of factors. The main one for me is the knowledge or lack thereof about enemys artillery and HE options and how open the terrain is on approach to the objectives. This due to the fact that soft units are the ones typically doing most of the most exposed manoeuvering, and also need to invariably go first before armour can go.

In many ocasions terrain will limit you on how much of your force you can effectively send out to supress defendants anyways. I.e. There is only so much area with LoS to where you need it... What I try to find is approach avenues that would allow me the maximum concentration of firepower from overwatch if contact was made (which actually means that sometimes the open ground avenue may be the best!). I dont succeed every time obviously but that is the aim. Good players recognize those avenues better than others.

Flanking while supressing is risky unless you are 100% sure there are no other units in the area other than your current target(s). My flanking attempts always end up badly because of unexpected new contacts. Much better I think to try and eliminate/fully supress all defendants in a given spot before moving in, unless you are sure no other support is in the area. To ensure full supression you need to apply firepower during enough time. In the old forums there were a few posts about how long it took for a certain amount of firepower to supress certain units, but for the most part we will have to learn by trial/error. In some cases it will be obvious in others we will have to make a judgement call.

In rural terrain positioning of infantry overwatch is much more easy than in urban terrain nowadays with CMBN. Urban inf combat with CMBN is much more difficult nowadays I feel because the ackward virtual tile system used in CMBN that limits where your squads can be placed and therefore there is a big impact on their LoS at short ranges in and around buildings. This has prevented me in many ocasions to be able to set up a fire superiority position across buildings whereas in the old CM it would have been a much more natural process. As it stands, and all other things being equal, urban infantry combat feels a bit of a lottery to me in terms of being lucky enough to have access to the right tiles that would allow you that fire superiority.

Since you ask about attacking through open ground, enemy´s HE capability is key. If this is limited or non existant then you can afford to set up a fire line backed up by your own armour, use your scouts as stated and then concentrate firepower on detected defendant units as you go (many good posts about how to advance infantry in open ground with no HE present at the old CM forums). If your opponent has decent artillery or HE at hand, then you may not be able to afford exposing your own infantry and need to either use smoke and/or have your own armour as exclusive overwatch. While your scouts are used as sacrificial bait until you can flush out enemy artillery and or detect the location of his armour/AT. The goal here would be to find a weak or blind spot in the defense line and concentrate there with a combo of overwatch and smoke to be able to send in your spearhead.

[Azon]

Thanks for the help, I'll be sure to send the "deep" scouts on the flanks. As far playing in RT I just kind of like the reassurance that I can react to the situation at anytime and so it is easier to time things.

A scenario I'm currently trying is "NEDforce" where I get some slight intel on where the enemy could be located. They have foxholes on the edge of the forest. The briefing said they have some fireflys too.

I plan to avoid the open ground in the center of the map, but should I send my panthers to the middle where there are roads or should I risk it (bogging) and go off road so I can use them on the flanks?

If they do go middle I plan on using them along with the 105mm howitzers to help suppress/soften the enemy positions when the time comes to assault the positions from the flanks.

One thing that still daunts me is setting up everyone in the beginning especially on defense. Trying to figure out where to best place everything is a little hard for me. Usually I keep the majority in the default position.

[snake_eye]

I've recently decided to start playing CMBN again after Commonwealth came out. I love the game, but I always seem to mess up something which either causes a large amount of friendly casualties or I run out of time..../....................../By the time I need to capture the last objective I have around 5 minutes left which in 95% of the cases isn't enough.

Can anyone give me advice that could help me avoid losing men or properly conduct an assault? Defense advice would help also but I'm mainly focusing on attacking for the moment.

I won’t give you any tactical advices since you are applying them, rightly, already.

The only advice I could give you would be to go into the scenario editor, to add more time to it.

Your casualties, like mine in many scenarios happen when I try to get to the objectives within the allocated time. It seems that scenario designers are not having a realistic view of the time it takes to approach an objective. Sure, it is a game, but that is not a reason for forcing a poor player to be obliged to plot the straightest way to its objective in order to get there on time. Usually its troops are badly mauled before they get there. It is like going into a perfectly set trap, that you could avoid if you had time to do so.

Manoeuvre is the key word for the infantry. All is about fire and movement and it takes time. So, add more time and your troops will do it with fewer casualties, since they will have time to move as needed.

The shortest known attacks that have succeeded are the one made by surprise. Once that element is lost, you have to resume the fight with fire and movement and it takes time. If you are within the dead time line to get on your objective, you must break the fight immediately and retreat accordingly to what has been rehearsed earlier.

If you don’t, you are calling for troubles. It looks the same in B-N with a huge difference, which is that the A.I is not surprised to be attacked by your troops. They are waiting for them.

Cheers

[thejetset]

Hi Azon,

I would highly recommend reconsidering the RT and play "WeGo" for this game. (especially for any scenario that uses more than about 2 platoons of men) If you look at a lot of the comments, it requires really zooming in and taking advantage of terrain and "seeing" what is happening through the eyes of the individual píxletruppen. Also, you really need to split squads and micro-manage to have success with realistic casualties .... i.e ... splitting your LMGs to provide support and a good base of fire while sending forward recon units or assault units. etc ......

I used to play a lot of RT war games such as Close Combat and Total War. But wayyyyyy back in '99/'00 I was turned on to this "We-Go" system ... and have been a fan ever since. .... In fact, there are many times where I wish that Total War would take a page out of BF's book and implement a WeGo system.

I think the loss of being able to react immediatly to a situation is far outweighed by the extra intel and situational awareness you gain by being able to re-play the action again and again from different angles (you hear units, you see where and what units got hit, you see units that maybe only appeared for a couple of seconds and then went invisible again) ... Playing RT (and I still play RT occasionally in small scenarios) ... I too often have units on my right get completely decimated while focusing on something that caught my attention on my left. (or viceversa etc ....)

Also, with "WeGo" you can sit back and drink a cold-one!!! VERY IMPORTANT! Finally, you can better take advantage of the graphics and cinematics of the game ... (while maybe not as nice as something like Napoleon:Total War ... are still quite nice!!!)

Cheers and welcome to the game.