Close Combat wishes in here?

[SS_PanzerLeader]

No offence intended, but if we are talking about the average Joe-gamer we are assuming he is happy until these mistakes are pointed out to him. We are also assuming that he cant think for himself or make decisions for himself in regards to game play, If Joe-Gamer truely enjoy a game it makes no difference what anyone else thinks. If Joegamer is searching the web looking for information by other gamers on the game then there must be a reason for that or he'd still be blissfully playing.

For Joe-Gamer to have that ignorance is bliss Idealism, is to adopt what Atomic and compaines like them are connstantly appropriating the gaming populace to be. This allows them to continue to make more crap and still take Joe-gamers money, who gets to find out the hard way.

SS_PanzerLeader....out

[Spy_Eye]

Panzerleader. the SS one. Tell me the game you are playing now. Please tell. so i can play "a realy accurate game" please do so. You think Atomic is telling that just to make you angry at them? Just reading you makes me want to listen from someone else. I am surprise that they dont listen to all advicea from future customers. Ok, tell them to sell 10 000 copies at 30$ profit on each. Lets counts that. 10 000 x 30$= 300 000$ WOW they sure can have 50 employee at 50 000 $ a year....OH wait a minute they lose money!!! Let say 10 employes. at 30 000, They get even. But they dont make 30$ a box, they make 10$ So they have to sell at least 50 000 copies. So to listen to everyone, or take and compile data, they need people. Why not you give them 1 year of free time. I sure wont object. Help them bring us the best "accurate" ww2 game. And also you will take charge of all the complains and ideas given to you? i sure hope you do. But i am realist about gaming industry. If BM breaks the 20 000 copies, but if they not? how many hours of work was put on the game? how many people worked on it? Version 2 will due in 2000 or 2001? Do they espect to sell all in the first month? How much pub to buy or to give some to reviewers? so SSpanzerLeader you should be of great help to us if you help all of them... thanx, thats not an order private. dismiss!!

The freaks are the one who are making war over a game!!!

Quote:

When is this line drawn? Who made the line? When we do not agree with you, we've crossed your magical mental figmentation of a line? Or maybe its governmental censorship that you are accustomed to, brainwashing seems to be evident in your rhetoric. ALL sheep please say 'BAAAA BAAA'

thats my point, the line is draw by someone. Not by you since you are still in college. But who decide the one who draw lines? The ones who make the games. the one who worked hard to make it happend, good or not. They made mistakes in the eyes of some, but not to all. Ask BM designers how mant hours are pass making it possible for us to play it, and i hope we wont complain like you do. Like i said, if they ask me what i am thinking of it i will tell. If i dont like the demo i wont buy. The free choice. But dont try to make everyone thinking that your the reference on how to make a game. A game who will survive many releases. Yes they could have taken 6 to 9 months more to make it very accurate, but since they wont get their money back, we all lose. Accurate or not....

Yes sir, ill follow you down the russians lines to fight back and kill all other opinions, since you are the only one right here, sir.....do i have to say the heil too?

Wich war crimes did you commited?

[Strider]

Spy_Eye...

You (seem to me) to be talking about two different things here...

1. Business (making money) In that regard, Atomic is doing what it needs/has to. Nothing wrong with that...

2. Gameplay...As BTS stated, if they would just advertise their games 'realisticly', (i.e. RTS based on WWII), there would be much less contraversy on wargamer sites.

As someone else mentioned, remaining silent on any issure you may have with a game or otherwise, is a person's choice, but hopefully they're a 'silent minority'

"Drawing lines..." : If you are referring to the developer drawing the line at some point in the games development and saying "this is the way the game is shipping", so be it...I was once told I would never succeed at a job as a programmer because I was never satisfied with my code, and a professional programmer 'had' to 'draw a line at some point'

If your line-drawing referes to opinions..."Not in this life" is it going to happen. Especially on this board

[PanzerLeader]

Hey, cc3's gameplay problems can even hurt Joe!

It isn't fun to use only tanks and to have a contest about who has the biggest and the more tanks in a battle. Even Joe feels there's something interesting about combining infantry and tanks and AT guns. Then in the next battle if he succeeds to win a total victory by successfully combining his infantry and tanks, he'll have a warm feeling of satisfaction...He won't know exactly how, since he achieved an even better result the day before with his Konigstigers...Then he'll start thinking a bit more while playing. Then he'll download realrare, then he'll play competitions, and...SHAZAM! Joe has become a grognard (and won't buy CC4 hehehe

All of my friends who have tried CC3 agree that playing a 15 tigers vs. 15 IS3 battle isn't fun. And while they don't care about historical accuracy they DO care about gameplay. However in both CC3 and CC4 it is not good.

[SS_PanzerLeader]

SPY_EYE

QUOTE: Tell me the game you are playing now.

The game I am currently playing that I would deem as accurate as I’ve seen would in fact be this one but maybe you are so blinded by the wonders of cc4 that you failed to notice lol. I also enjoy many other types of games I love role-playing games, first person shooters, and other stuff. Basically I enjoy a game that is well made and not thrown together just to make a buck which is something you obviously condone BTW which company do you work for you are obviously VERY defensive of their practices.

There I answered your question but I see you ducked mine by asking this one- obviously you were short on an answer!

QUOTE: Just reading you makes me want to listen from someone else

PLEASE FEEL FREE! You opened the thread and now the heats turned up you are ready to duck for cover! Whets the matter afraid of hearing a voice other than your own? Maybe you shouldn’t have started this!

QUOTE:

Ok, tell them to sell 10 000 copies at 30$ profit on each. Lets counts that. 10 000 x 30$= 300 000$ WOW they sure can have 50 employee at 50 000 $ a year....OH wait a minute they lose money!!! Let say 10 employes. at 30 000, They get even. But they dont make 30$ a box, they make 10$ So they have to sell at least 50 000 copies. So to listen to everyone, or take and compile data, they need people. Why not you give them 1 year of free time. I sure wont object. Help them bring us the best "accurate" ww2 game. And also you will take charge of all the complains and ideas given to you? i sure hope you do. But i am realist about gaming industry.

What on earth are you babbling about? IF a company continues to make its customers unhappy sales will fall - what business class have you taken - this is a very competitive world. What you claim is a realistic conception of the gaming industry is more of a complacent acceptance.

If you support inferior products I take it you have a Yugo in the driveway or maybe a ford pinto.

QUOTE:

If BM breaks the 20 000 copies, but if they not? How many hours of work was put on the game? how many people worked on it? Version 2 will due in 2000 or 2001? Do they espect to sell all in the first month? How much pub to buy or to give some to reviewers? so SSpanzerLeader you should be of great help to us if you help all of them... thanx, thats not an order private. dismiss!!

I believe they worked on it 2 1/2s form what I read in earlier posts. They also are breaking form the tradition of the gaming industry which you claim to know so much about, My money is on them I think their efforts will pay off - because chronic complainers (as you classify all of us) are putting forth allot of energy promoting the game and it isn’t costing them a dime! IS that enough free time?? As for the latter part of your question, remark or whatever it was it, made no sense, as did a large portion of your commentary.

I’ve also noticed that you’ve hedged serious comments posed by gamers - your response is simply:

1. ACCEPT all with open arms praise the industry

2. Buy all with open arms praise the industry

3. Don’t worry when it don’t work be happy they went to work -be happy to support them in their lifestyles...be happy lol

You still didn’t tell me what you are smoking? Crack?

QUOTE:

That’s my point; the line is draw by someone. Not by you since you are still in college. But who decide the one who draw lines? The ones who make the games. the one who worked hard to make it happend, good or not. They made mistakes in the eyes of some, but not to all. Ask BM designers how mant hours are pass making it possible for us to play it, and i hope we wont complain like you

What point ? what line ? obviously since this is in your mind, we must be dealing with points referenced by complex numbers lol.

They spent many hours to bring us a game - so because they hurried up an churned out a piece of garbage, to get our money that is ok>?? GOD where on earth do u live? I got all kinds a stuff in my junk room I could sell there at a good price.

QUOTE:

Yes sir, ill follow you down the russians lines to fight back and kill all other opinions, since you are the only one right here, sir.....do i have to say the heil too?

Wich war crimes did you commited?

The only one here trying to tell people how to think is you but obviously you wernt astute enough to notice. And what on earth are you on about ....... oh my mistake my warcrime was contradicting your rules of thought and opinion along with those imaginary lines that contain them.

SS_PanzerLeader......out

OH BTW GET A SPELLCHECKER!

[Spy_Eye]

The problem with the word "realisticly" is that's a relative word. For some realisticly meens that we have real blood and ammo, for others its VforVictory series. In the same manner it applies to CM. Who says what is considered realisticly. Real dead soldiers or an computer genereted image of one? I think some are shoked to see CC not to be what they espected. I have dreams too about a perfect game. But since i dont have the money to realise it, CC is by far the game i consider realistcly the most accurate. Until i get CM of course. Even then that alsways a relaitive word to apply. Like if i say i am good. Thats relative. For the ones i win againts, i am, but the other i lost againts, i am not ;( The line at wish point a software can be realisticly accurate must be drawn by someone. Atomic did. You know that we never happy demonstrating in front of our governements, we see only angry and bitter people complaining abou dicisions made by the one drawing lines, on the knowlegde of the other silent majority. some even try to make type of players to push farder the relastic dabate. Real fighting Soldiers, hard core ww2 fans, ww2 freaks, JO gamer.... and so on. So ww2 game community have now social classes if we listen to some? The best way to solve ethic problems is, If you dont like the demos, dont buy the game. That's it that's all. So for me i wont buy the game until i see the last demo. Cause this one is not satifying for me. Of course its a real beta one. But if i buy the game and get very sad about my +100$ spend on it, i wont complain and cry for getting listen to. Since then, if they made enough sell to make CM2, they wont have time to listen to 1000 of people tell this or that. In Architecture we must draw a dead line to finish the design. If we dont , we sure will never finish. And a not buid house dont get us paid. Even if the plans were the best

[SS_PanzerLeader]

SPY_EYE

so what youa re trying to tell me is that in the 'ARCHITECTURE BUSINESS', You can piss off your customers and still make a profit ( never mind stay in business)?

IF JOE_Gamer decides to buy a house and he comes to your SPY_EYE ARCHITECTURAL CO. HE gives you the specs for his new home and what he wants. He has money and other friends that are in the market to have a house designed and built- are you telling me that you don't build it to what was asked of you? DO you think Joe-Gamer is gonna take that lying down? Do you think he is gonna tell all his friends what a wonderful company you have .....Be happy... SPYE_EYE put alot of hours in it - he didnt give me what i asked for but- but he showed up for work an punched the clock, .......for that Joe-Gamer will be eternally grateful to the SPYE_EYE ARCHITECTURAL CO for not doing what Joe-Gamer had originally asked.

This analogy can also be applied to a larger scale - a developer finds out whats currently 'in demand' in new homes; he wants some designs for a group of houses - you do it your way -- GET THE PICTURE.....?

NOT GOOD BUSINESS

SS_PanzerLeader.......out

[Spy_Eye]

yes 15 KT and 15 JSIII.

But now the biggest complain about cc4 is the combat groups. No more buying individuals units. So complaints, You were talking of the CC3 customs with no historic restrictions and pts. You dont need to make custom scenarios like that!! you can predifine what is for you an nice battle group. Now that some complain about it, we lost the faculties to make scenarios of other battle fields.

The problem with real red these days is that poeple are playing 3 to 4 different close combat 3. Less players, less people to play with, less enthusiams. You see i can make complaints too!!! But i respect that some were playing mods, even thought it makes less poeple to play with. ;(

SS PanzerLeader. Beside the CM demo what are the other game names? please tell us.

And sorry for my typos, english is not my fist language. You know your not the only one on earth.

And you dont need to make personal attacks, we are just talking a bout a game, keep your politics out of it. And no i dont take drugs. No need to make allusions of it.

My orignal post was about why people are even bithing about CC in here. Do they wake up in the night to let the world they dont play it? I dont lile MS flight sim combat. I dont go in forums to talk in bad about it. I simply dont play it!!! So if the demo of BM you play now , you must have seen some bad things? I can tell a lot. But ill wait till they make the real demo. Who knows they corrrect all of them. If not, ill wait of they have receive complains about them, and then make a nice little comments, thats all. No bitching for years to come.

No my friend i dont drive a Ford. I m very carefull of what i buy, but we are talking about tastes here. I like CC2 CC3. I can't tell you to love them. Its my choice, like yours to have a SS name. its yours.

The thing i find very strange is to express your tastes here about another game, you dont like. thats why i title the post :

Close Combat wishes in here?

I dont attack you, i respect your opinions. but explain why you expresing yourself on a game you dont buy, or like. you just making it to prove your almighty right?

[Strider]

If you purchase a product, (based on information/advertising/models/etc you are aware of), and it turns out not to be what you expected : You should scream you lungs out. IMHO

[Spy_Eye]

SS_PanzerLeader,

in architecture we make a design. We try to do our best. the client pay us, let say 2000$. I take time to make plans for 2000$. But if i think like you, i should spend over 10 000 $ to make a castle. And in anytime the client have the go nogo options. He approves it, them we start the technical drawings. In reference we show him our other plans and houses we made ( LIKE CC DEMOS ). So if you dont like the Victorians houses we build dont come waste our time and your money. But dont go telling eveywhere that our plans were ugly since they dont represent you! But they sure represnte other tastes. Like movies, never listen on all the critics. Here where i live, the critics bitches about Star wars. But how many liked it. Its a mater of taste. So again tell us the other games beside BM beta demo your are playing. So i can buy them. That we call contructive critics, like the guy who talked me in good of CM. So here i am wishing i will like it. Do the same for me, tell me wich other games are good around. Dont tell me the ones you dont like. Thats not what i want to hear.

[Guest KwazyDog]

Yup, try umm www.hpssims.com.

[This message has been edited by KwazyDog (edited 11-26-99).]

[Spy_Eye]

Tanks KwazyDog ,

do you know the site address? And yourself wich other games your are plying? Beside of course CM Beta Demo.

[Guest KwazyDog]

See above post for address, messed my orgional post up

Hehe, well to be totally honest Spy I am also beta testing CM, and havnt played another game since recieving the full beta over 2 months ago (or gotten to bed before 2am for that matter )

[PanzerLeader]

Spy Eye,

Quote:

"You don't need to make custom scenarios like that!!"

Hah! If only the editor was acceptable!

First there is no map editor, that in itself is a huge problem when you want to design your own scenarios. All right, I know some people are creating maps out there but it is a *very* complicated process. Not everybody can do it.

Then the problem with scenarios that last more than a day is that after the first day the computer will only buy the best tanks! That brings us back to the original problem: too many tanks!! There should be some kind of "force pool" editor, in which you could decide what the AI can or cannot buy...

[Moon]

Spy_Eye - first off, my respect to you. You manage to stay calm and on topic despite being attacked. I disagree with you, but I draw my hat.

"Realistic" is not as relative as you make it sound. While there certainly is a grey area, there are enough areas which can be pinpointed pretty well if they are realistic or not. Calliopes cannot hurl rockets over a two storey building into an open top vehicle on the other side. There is no exception to this. Here lies one of the reasons why I believe many people DO speak up when they see something like the CC series being advertised as "realistic" - because they make Joe Forgothisnameagain believe that what they show is realistic.

Besides that, I am surprised to find you justifying the reasoning of game publishers. You don't happen to work for one? The reason why I ask is because I, as somebody who is paying money for these games and expecting to receive a few hours or days of fun from it, am more concerned with what I get than what the publishers earn off it. If it was up to the publishers, they would deliver you an empty cardboard box for fifty bucks.

Believe me, they would do it if there was more people that would buy what they get without complaining. Those companies (and this is valid not only for this particular industry) will always go the way of least resistance, because this is also the way to make the most money.

See, it's just cheaper to do something quick quick and sell it as "wargame that emphasizes realism", than really invest the time to do it. Joe Goshcantrememberhisname will never know the difference until people that do know the difference speak up. Joe will also never know what he is missing from his gaming experience, until people with knowledge point out the faults of a product that claims to be what it is not.

The reason why you will find CC mentioned on this forum here is, I think, because we're the ones Atomic would like to sell their games to with their "realistic" marketing slogans. We're doing each other a favor of not falling into that trap, and that's a good thing, since there is not much else left that would give you an unbiased opinion than the guys actually playing these games.

BTW, you seem to imply that Atomic has spent oh so many years developing CC4 as if it was their lovely child. Well, why then do I get German voices with russian accents in CC4? Why did they take CC3 voices and stuck them into CC4? This looks to me like somebody is thinking Joe Whateverhisnameis is a pretty dumb fellow and will buy whatever you pull out of your butt. It is, to put it straight forward, the most greedy and blatant money making scheme I have ever seen, and I have seen some.

And last but not least - realism is not the only feature lacking from CC4 as I have seen it. There are plenty of gameplay issues, one of them being the "death of dance" of tanks and the seeming inability of AI tanks to drive forward in a straight line for a few meters or cross bridges. If you as a player do not start complaining here at the very latest, then I shudder to think what CC5 is going to look like...

Now I'm certainly not telling you what to do. It's none of my business. But I do think that stating my opinion to this matter is just as valid as allowing you to state yours. As long as my opinion is based on more than just "it sux", that is. These kinds of opinions, and I guess we agree, is simply a sign of an infantile ego.

[Spy_Eye]

So you are saying that CM will destroy some married couple ;(

One advice, go to bed early. Their no reset on wives. ;0) Dont crash and burn like i did some years ago. Thanx KwazyDog , i went to the site, its looking like hex game like ALS or VforV series.

[howardb]

Personally I think some of you are taking this way to personal and Spy_eye you asked for our opinions so don't complain

Why can't Atomic just put in an option that says "Idiots" push this button, "Grognards" push this button. Other games has managed to do so why can't Atomic ? Give us the option to play the game WE LIKE.

[BLACKHORSE_C16]

Fella's Fella's,

Relax, it is just a GAME. It is meant to pro vide a little entertainment of the historical type. First, Spy Eye I'm with ya bud, I like CC1,2,3 and 4. They all provide me with good entertainment. Sind sie Deutch?Hell I still break out cc1 and play it on pentium 350 man watch it go!!!! As for everyone and this realism scheisse(look it up in your German dictionary)these are games. I appreciate all the data guru's but it did not make a hoot of difference to anyone on the battlefield what the tinsel strength of the steel of a tiger or penetration factor of the sherman. Fact is a weapon kills only specific target and sometimes it LUCKS out on one that it should not. All you knew was shoot it from the side or rear if possible, from the front shoot the tracks out immobilize and flank. It is a game. If it is realism you want I recommend you go down to your local recruiter, sign on the dotted line, attend basic, advanced and some leadership training a few deployments and two way gunnery training, and you too will know what realism is. The DOD has a budget for simulation and there product is not much better than this or cc2,3,4 and that data comes from the horses mouth. On tanks not being able to drive. If I had a dollar for every damn driver that made hit him, or crawl on the front deck of my brad at 30 mph because that damn intercom cable went out, I would be rich. As for crossing bridges, I must say I don't have too many probs with that in the cc series. But in real life buttoned up, it is alot of fun. You have on average 3 to 5, 1 1/2" by 3" squares pointed in static dirtections, most of you could not do it in your car let alone 3 feet higher with a 50 ton tracked vehicle that you can not see close to where your track meets the road, and half a dozen yahoo's shooting at you. Last but not least for the desk top commanders, just because you say go here and do that does not make it so, no#1. Oh, and last time I checked the battalion commander has no idea on earth what what squad two in first platoon of company B in task element 2-21 of the 36th Infantry battalion is doing.In other words the Battalion Commander does not control the direct maneuver, target aquisition, or calls for fire of a squad or platoon. That would be a flaw in all these games. As for business, look at the forum board, there are over 16,000 posts for this game, the next closest is 1001 for WDK. Whatever BTS's business strategy is now, it will have to change if this game does as well as its bulletin board. I'm not predicting good or bad, but it will change.

Soooooo, everybody take a nice guy pill and play a GAME. See ya later and hope to play you unless your one of those people in the CC game rooms who cries because he lost and he feels he should not have because his STAT SHEET says otherwise.

------------------

Allons!!

[SS_PanzerLeader]

SPY_EYE

I realize that English isn’t your first language but you could still use a spelling checker or at least look it over before ya post :-P

I apologize for attacking you as you put it but your sarcastic condescending tone, complimenting the fact that in your eyes we aren’t allowed an opinion Kind of rubbed me the wrong way. I am not political in my statements other than the fact I believe I have the right speak an say what I so choose without landing myself in jail :-P You seem to be accustomed to being lulled into some kind of mass conformity. Really I hate politics.

Also in regards to personal attacks I guess I didn’t care for the remarks referring to those that complain as old women, nor historical buffs as freaks.

In the context of your last inference to the architectural analogy I made you changed the entire concept of what I said scroll up, don’t compare apples and oranges.

As far as what games I play; I play a lot of different games nothing holds my interest for a huge amount of time with the exception of CLOSE COMBAT 2 which I avidly supported and promoted with the same vigor I denounced later versions.

I do not complain incessantly about other games I don’t like I simply don’t buy them> I complain a bout close combat because it is my gaming genre and is misrepresenented by its manufacturers claims. These people did not hear solely from me –they heard form numerous beta testers before me and lots of other gamers afterwards- all voicing the same complaints. Last time I checked they make money off of us not the other way around therefore they need us we don’t need them. Had they bothered to listen to those that were making their job possible there probably wouldn’t be so many disgruntled posts, I don’t see this many complaints about any other game so far, although I haven’t bothered to look cause there isn't another game out there that bugs me this much. Obviously in that context the game mattered to me and I was highly disappointed as was countless others. Why do they want beta testers if they are going to ignore them? Am I missing something or did they just feel the need to make sure it they’re coding just didn’t crash on execution?

You opened this thread by stating lets have an open discussion on CC2 or words generally to that effect. Unfortunately you seem to think no one has the right to be upset or disgruntled after they found a game that they really enjoyed had been ruined Nor at the fact that the company chose to make changes against the will of its customers to bring an end to some wonderful gaming moments.

Again I apologize for the drug crack but I do feel your thinking is somewhat clouded to say the least.

SS_PanzerLeader………….out

[SS_PanzerLeader]

OOPs the other thing that holds my interest tremendously is this

SS_PanzerLeader.........out

[Guest Lokesa]

Spy_Eye, I realize I may be taking this out of the context in which your original statement was intended however, I actually apreciate hearing all the feedback about CC4. It's in a genre I'm interested in and am curious about my fellows opinions on it. I also consider many of the posters here as friends and if they didn't repeatedly tell me how bad it is and I went and wasted money on it I would be disapointed in them for not saying anything. I cant afford to throw my money around like that

As to the rest of your statements, I must disagree. As you say realism is a subjective term, nevertheless, in my opinion the CC series is made out to be something it is not and that is fraud. I was extreemely disapointed with the series after the 2nd edition especially with the marketing promises "unparalleled realism"... what a crock. The point has been argued before that "unparalleled realism" is completely meaningless, it doesnt mean more real or less real just unparalleled. So what, it may stand up in a court of law as such but the statement itself implies greater realism and is as such misleading and therefore offensive.

You say that for yourself it is the most realistic WWII game out, cool, that's great, I'm glad you like it. Me, I'm going to let everyone that is interested in the game and who I think would be disapointed in it how I disagree with it.

[Xyphorus]

Oh Boy!

We are talking about war games, aren’t we?

a) I personaly feel that the people who should be annoyed the most by Atomics’ claim of realism should be guys like Charles and Steve. They are trying very hard to

put together a war game in which realism is one of the best features. They should be the ones really ticked off by fasle advertising of a competitive product. The rest of us,potential customers can make a “free” choice (but not always informed) when it comes to whether or not buy a game.

Why am I posting on this particular thread? May be because I am a CC2 & CC3 player. CC2 introduced me to WWII games, which are the only games I play.

I do enjoy CC3 with RR 1005, and what is wrong with that? I play it against good friends of mine, having the same taste when it comes to wargames. We use custom

operations, well balanced (with mainly inft, and few light armors, using mainly new maps), over a period of 6 or 7 days.

This is challenging, and we are having fun.

So, I qualify as a “Joe whateverisnameis”. This is fine, and certainly does not prevent me from learning more about WWII, and more importantly appreciate a fine game

like CM. One should not even try to compare the two games.This is a pointless exercise.

c) Clearly SS_PanzerLeader and Spy_Eye disagree. They both have relevant points concerning the topic, but do not listen to one another.

I have to say that R Cunningham is the one who according to me did narrow the best the pros & cons of CC games. At least his argumentation made sense to me. Thanks also

to him for the website regarding the whole Sajer’s book controversy. It was educational to read.

d) Just as a side note, I think that SS_PanzerLeader should comment Spy_Eye’s poor English speeling by e-mail, and

not on a public forum. This is not a personal attack against SS_PanzerLeader at all. No offense intended, but may be that if

you were trying to post a message in French and German, you would realize that for some people it requires time to post in a foreign language,and time is not always expendable. I just can relate to a certain extent to

that since English is not my native language.

e) Tanks to BTS, Fionn, Moon, and all the others for participating in this great forum. I have very little time to spend on the net for leasure., but this is the only forum I regularly visit.People are mature, answers are provided, and most importantly, it is fun and instructional to read.

Well, now I can silently go back behind my screen, and read other people’s

posts.

Thank you for your time,

Karl

Aka “Joe whateverisnameis” 

[SS_PanzerLeader]

true enough I can understand that it is difficult to post in a Foreign Language, but unfortunately I didn't have his email addy to tell him in any other manner. Regardless an increasing amount of text became unclear, Correct me if Im wrong( im not being a smartass) but doesnt a computer have Language options, I've never had to use them so I dont know for sure. Also I don't think I would open up this kind of discussion if I were not able to convey my ideas in a straightforward manner.

With regards to making points about what I didnt like about the game - there was no sense in beating a dead horse - everyone else has already summed most of it up on this bbs it onthis forum .

SS_PanzerLeader...out

[howardb]

Xyphorus:

Like i said earlier: "Lastly I must put in that I think developers of supposedly historic wargames should feel a responsibility to educate it's gamers with historic information about equipment and tactics deployed. This was done in excellently in CC2 with even the different sound cues for different guns etc".

What's better for a newbie than to learn history through a game anyway? I remember I used to love the documentation Microprose used to have in it's games. Like the manual for Across the Rhine, it was massive.

[Fionn]

Speaking as a non-native English speaker (who has trouble with all these hyphenations in English *sigh* ) the language functions make posts even less intelligible.

I have no problem telling someone their post is quite ununderstandable as a means of explaining why they mightn't be getting an answer to it but I think everyone should realise that posting in a language you don't know very well requires that you be given a lot of leeway.

If this leeway isn't given to Spy_Eye (whose behaviour in this thread I think has been very poor) then others who aren't good with English won't post here.

I'd like to see less abusive posters but more posters who mightn't be all that good at English and I think that we need to make that plainly understood whenever anyone new comes on the forum.

just my two centimes.

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Fionn Kelly

Manager of Historical Research,

The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers