Beleg85

Magic around absolving Galizien soldiers from responsibility for warcrimes lies in excluding from their list members of police detachments that were from the same wave of volunteers you mentioned before. These were recruits from OUN-M initially unfit for regular service, directed into auxiliary service outside from frontline divison but later (after its restructurization) amalgamated into- namely 4th and 5th Galician Volunteer SS Police Regiments. They participated in following massacres, together with Germans: -2.II.1944 Prehoryłe and Smoligów, unkown casualties (investigation still ongoing) -28.II.1944 Huta Pieniacka, 800+ civilians murdered/ some burned in houses -12.III.1944 Palikrowy, 368 civilians bound together and machine-gunned -16.IV.1944 Chodaczkowo Wielkie, 250-850 civilians murdered -24.VII.1944 Iwonicz- 72 prisoners from AK and Bch taken and shot/bayoneted. -Numerous pacification actions with numbers of killed below 100 (usually 30 people here, 40 there). There are also relations of singular Jew huntings but since they were formed vey late, they weren't "necessary" anymore on big scale. -Anti-partisan actions in Yugoslavia, of which less is known (if somebody has some info, feel free to share) This is what we judge them the for in Europe, not for the fact that they did fight for free Ukraine or not. Even if they weren't in proper SS, they did serve in the same machine, took orders and share its ideological conotations, uniforms and crucially- actions. Also it is not true they were vouched entirely afterwar; there was simply no possibility in post-45 world to entirely check what you did in turmoil of late WWII in these lands; simply burning documents and creating new identity was also not unheard of, albeit to my knowledge less in Galizen itself, as it was kept as coherent unit. Gen. Anders is particulary to blame here too, as he allowed 8 thousands members of former Galizien and UNA (not all of them SS ofc.) to escape to West without checks, giving them Polish passports collectivelly (even late D. Doncev managed to escape this way after pleading with Giedroyc). It's good they were spared the fate of Cossacks, but not that those guilty sliped away. Overall it's shame somebody in Canadian Parliament allowed such episode to happen (Russian propaganda has a feast on something real...finally), especially given how many Canadian soldiers died fighting SS in Normandy. I observe that lately, perhaps due to novelty that become complicated history of CEE lands suddenly appearing in western public discourse, we get way too lax and uncritical with our global approach to these ideologies, didn't we? We prefer not to see widespread far-right symbolic in AFU, have already difficult discussions about OUN-B past, and now we relativize heritage of even more obvious SS auxilia? Well, that goes fast. On other side you are right that history of some people joining SS in Central and Eastern Europe was very complex, especially for Balts, crushed between Soviet Scylla and Nazi Haribda. Also not all Ukrainians serving as German auxilia were indeed happy to initially serve along SS, like Pavlo Shandruk, who refused to take over Galizien and only very late in war took command in UNA :https://military-history.fandom.com/wiki/Pavlo_Shandruk I hear in some news that Gen. Tieplinski, chief of VDV, was effectively moved from command on Southern front and Gierasimov took over manual control. So fingers crossed it is true. On otehr side, similar situation was suppose to happen many times already.

Russian missile (?) hitting Ukrainian military train. Reportedly region of Avdiivka but far away from frontline, ca.50kms ; date unknown. If it was indeed larger missile (unlikely Tornado or FAB), it means muscovites improved their target aquisition and overal killchain, at least in this region. Of course it is also possible that train stayed there simply too long.

Russian surces claims somebody beat up old friend of this board- Griking Strelkov, while he was in detention center waiting for his trial...reportedly, done by far-right inmate from Ukraine. Also, from ISW...he seems to be way over-optimistic calling it a breaktrough.

Sorrowful video of Russian ambushing and killing two Ukrainian soldiers from behind.What is of notice is confirmation that fight takes place in Novoprokopivka village and video seems rather fresh.

A propos Russian capabilites in replacement department...why they removed those barrels despite possesing abilties to produce spare ones? Perhaps only anecdotary evidence, but those who predicts Russians are running low will like it.

NBC site is blocked somehow, do they specify the numbers? "Small" can range anything from several to low hundreds.

True, but bashing is not equal to other bashing, especially when dipped in clear historical prejudice and based on some made-up facts. Also, none of us here spoke negatively about average German citizen nor throw epithets that he is greedy and arrogant, like user who started this entire issue habitually do to Central Europeans in general. Hell, not even about DE government, and if you remember we criticized it pretty strongly together with our German members trying to figure out what was driving them during Leo debate. I think you were the part of it. Not at all, this issue was adressed multiple times. Basically, such tables can tell you very little, as they describe only stiff netto numbers and not include differences in value of workforce, massive advantages in new markets, fluctuations of capital (material and intellectual), pruposful tax evasion by some countries, brain drainage etc. If somebody thinks that EU decision-makers suddelnly, collectively get out of their minds and did giant job of convincing their population to enlarge Union on pure whim - then I'd call him to read a little more on the process... Ok, let's go forward into more productive topics folks.

Another strike on Sevastopol; this time headquarters of BSF was targeted:

True, but since we strive on this board to put something better than common misconceptions, his obvious silly post-Prussian biases he showed numerous times demand some reply. Since he likes to use very categorical judgments regarding nations of Central Europe (and anybody else too he considers untereuropeans) let's unpack "EU funded Polish armaments and that's all" argument: -Budget assets in PL for 2023 are 97 bln of zl. It raised dramatically compared to previous year where it was ca.65 bln. Obviously domestic assets. -Another ca.50 bln comes from Fund For Support of Military- a new entity outside of budget constrains created as consequence of Russian agression, including bank investments with state capital, obligations, off-sets with foreign contractors and similar. Significance of this entity will raise in next years. So it is chiefly financed due to debt on various state assets that Polish citizens will be paying off for decades; one may think of it as morgage on giant scale. https://defence24.pl/przemysl/rosnie-zadluzenie-funduszu-wsparcia-sil-zbrojnych - European Peace Facility alias EPF (which itself is made of various European assets and debts, including its Eastern members- there are dozens of initiatives there, like helping Nigerian Forces, that do not correspond to situation in UA too) is chief fund here; up to 3.6 bln of euro in 7 tranches were used to refurbish member's states assets given to Ukraine, and that includes ammo, trainings of UA soldiers and other things that directly do not increase our combat capabilities. https://www.osw.waw.pl/en/publikacje/osw-commentary/2023-07-10/eu-war-chest-success-and-uncertain-future-european-peace Note: time was of essence then even more than money itself during crucial first year of the war; many western states behind the curtain put cross on Ukraine, so were clearly unwilling to give up their assets due to various subjective and objective reasons. Countries of Eastern Flank- chiefly Balts and PL- gave up up to 30% of their stuff. I is also not true it was all post-Soviet:we have new weapon systems given or sold on credit, like Krabs, Topaz, Piorun, Bohdana etc. that blow Russians pretty nciely until today. This process left us (mind you- frontier countries) almost bare in various areas like artillery ammo in the face of revanchist Russia, that threatened daily and used hybrid warfare against PL and Lithuania. This situation should last up to circa 2027-30 when new assets should be here in appropriate numbers. So how much compensation PL gained from this fund? By march 2023 it was 300 mlns euro, with expectation for another 5-600 mlns according to PM words; let's believe him (I wouldn't and he almost surely infated this, but skip it for sake of argument), it should gave us 900 mln euro, or ca. 4,5 blns of zloty according to recent course*. In other words, EU help consist of maximum something like 3-4% of country total yearly military expeditures. Behold terrying Red Dragon! Overall entire argument "we give money so shut up" is, like everything that our dear @Aragorn2002 writes: a mix of power phantasies, personal biases, and lack of basic understanding of economy. *Note, that this includes training, ammo and accomodating UA soldiers (various estimates, but probably more than brigade size at any given time from late 2022) as well as running training grounds with allied soldiers, not solely new equipment. We can be sure there are also various long-term military deals being made in this extraordinary situation, but their overall quota is unknown for now. Now it is true that countries of Eastern Flank are main beneficiaries of the help- but it is also true they were main benefactors for UA in crucial time and hold the line against Russia, apart from UK and USA ofc. About other issues curcial to UA survival- like diplomatic offensive vs. doom and gloom of some western partners, only embassy working in Kyiv during hardest time, milions of refugees taken care off, unrelentless moral support for UA (still important and showed on the streets by people most interested here- Ukrainian civilians and veterans), chief hub for this entire tragedy and various other things I will not even speak of. But hey: Morawiecki provoked by Zelensky in UN said something stupid, over long-time difficult issue, in the middle of elections he soon nuanced anyway, western media outlets raised histeria to absurd levels and out of a sudden PL is "not reliable ally thinking only about themselves" versus Russia. I could punch curent government by hours if you like, but let's try to keep proportions here, gentlemen.

Probably this thread from Tatarigami was posted before, but good stuff is worth to repeat anyway. Probably not the first time line was penetrated and hard to tell what effects will be, but it is of some note.

Traditionally, very englightening post about this short drama. Meanwhile, in real world - one of Russian "peacekeepers" killed in Karabakh was deputy commander of submarines of Norther Fleet. Odd place for such a guy. https://www.rferl.org/a/top-russia-navy-officer-killed-azerbaijan-nagorno-karabakh/32602846.html Thanks. Unfortunatelly, their stocks does not seem to be near to ending. https://www.thenationalnews.com/world/uk-news/2023/08/29/russia-hoards-missile-stocks-as-it-prepares-for-major-autumn-strike/ I am curious if the fact that UA now has its own small drones and missile can change the dynamic of Russia's own airstrikes on Ukrainian soil this winter; will it be so dramatic like last one? 2022/23 they attacked with total impunity according to (it seems) pre-planned schedule; now just gathering planes on airfields by muscovites seem to pose a danger. Even airfields quite deep into Mother Russia itself could theoretically be targeted by a team with some IKEA-made cartoon bomblet. That means longer route for missiles and subsequently more time to prepare the answer.

Damn muscovites. Haiduk how you judge chances that this autumn/winter we will see similar Russian strike campaign as previous year targeting power grids?

There is probably hardly a country that it is so clear cut. But yeah, Morawiecki should frame it better; it cost us good opinion county earned before (mostly due to people's genuine reactions rather than original state apparatus behaviour anyway). About chancellor Scholz I dare to politelly disagree. Yes, he even explained it clearly in his 30-min long interview today, which ofc is missed by most western media cause it is less dramatic. Nobody stops anything, including grain transits, and it is stated many times PL is working out to not endanger security of UA in any way. Actually, I am surprised how calming officials are compared to "news shock". There a lot of theatre guys playing here, I'll tell you that; only for people unaccustomed to PiS "double-talk" it sounds as something shocking. PS. And just latest news...ministers of agriculture of UA and PL spoke and preliminary agreed to regulate the issue of grain markets... Told'ye.

Partly it is obviously the case. However, there is so many interconnected interests and odd theatricity (on both UA and PL sides) connected to this issue that it starts to stinks from a far, like "who blown NS2" case. Given previously extremely cordial relations between presidents, and very uncharacteristic calmness of Duda in this situation, there is even theory now that it is agreed between both governments to do a little public tantrum as a favour due to elections...sounds crazy, but we already saw many similar odd, unresolved cases during those 2 years (like NS2 case). A lot of things is going here under the carpet we know little about. Also, don't take Morawiecki by his words, basically never. First, it was cut out of context and they were hardly such dramatical if somebdoy know polish and way of talking of our current PM (like unfortunatelly often happens in many western media outlets lately...). Second, he lies, as always - don't worry, I am pretty sure PL will continue its military support on multiple levels (if some stuff is still left in warehouses). Here @Huba is unfortunatelly right- expecting state in election fever to behave normally is like asking woman just about to give birth to stop showing off herself. Also addendum to Kadyrov saga- alive and well, here praying on the bad of his uncle, Magomet. Maybe it was not this Kadyrov that SBU informed about?

Nope- it's rosy version of reality. While common people are generally still super friendly to each other, a lot of political tensions exist, usually hidden under the carpet and covered with smile forced by difficult situation Ukraine is in. Whatever one thinks about complicated grain issue (Morawiecki is to blame for anomalies in early stages of grain access, but on other hand we cannot allow agroligarchs like Akhmetov to completelly destroy our agriculture), it's extremely undiplomatic Zelensky put Central Europe, also Slovakia, Romania and several others, in one line with Russia on the floor of UN. Reception of his words here is like painful cold shower even for most pro-UA activists. It will cost Ukrainian soldiers private donations and subsequently will damage their war effort. But hey, we saw they don't care that much anyway on example of this prevalent nazi symbolic; so it's their call in the end. Situation should get a little better in November after elections, depending on their outcome.* It is likely PiS will be forced to create a government with far right (called Konfederacja), then I am afraid Ukraine will pay dearly for it. Hopefully they won't win, though, and it will all end on PiS pretending they are very indignant now to channel people's anger and then chill out later. * Campaign and doemstic political culture became so toxic last months that one can only start to see medieval trials by combat as very elegant and civilized solution to political debates. A pitty we cannot reintroduce them. Going back to war: https://www.sightmagazine.com.au/news/32266-russian-attacks-kill-nine-in-ukraine-lviv-warehouses-set-ablaze-officials. Lately Russian missile destroyed, among others, warhouse in Lviv. It is too early to tell, but some speculated that given that it was filled with winter clothes, generators and Caritas humanitarian help, we may wtiness very early attempts of another muscovite winter strikes campaign. Did anybody saw estimates as to Russian curent missile capabilities?

Very interesting coincidences...didn't 31st already lost its command early in the war? Being top officer in VDV nowadays is like being Genghis-chan envoy. Maybe glorious, but definitelly one-way job.

I am frankly not convinced Chechnya matters that much in Russian power system. It is colourful additon to already vast country to be sure, but beyond providing access to several thousands of potentiall oprychniki for whoever will be a Tsar, it is of little importance by itself. Perhaps Dagestan is even more relevant at this point. On other side, Chechens overal appeal pleasantly licks Kremlin imperial ego; after all, coolest thing in being proper Empire is that you have access to various odd, hairy, unruly yet very lively barbarians, who once harnessed can still provide a lot of their wild mojo. This alone can be enough to convince Putin to leave governence of the province to the Chechens in case Kadyrov implodes. But regarding Kadyrov himself, I am little dissapointed by SBU. If that would be just internet rumour- fine; but vouching for it by Ukrainian officials was a mistake. Runet already laughs how again Kadyrov tricked Westerners again.

As to discussions regarding fate of Russian 72nd brigade: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1703048620398841934.html

As things seem to be standing now, the question of succession wouldn't be that problematic. Oldest son of Ramzan, Akhmet already travelled to Kremlin to obtain precious personal picture with Putin, which was received by people knowledgeable about region as first step towards succession. On the other side, Ramzan during this war pictured himself much more often with other son, Adam. This chubby little brat seem to be more resembling his father- there are accusation that being 15-years old, he already took part in fighting in Ukraine (ofc. tik-tok way), tortured (or at least humiliated) prisoners and "defended" islam by assaulting somebody who reportedly tried to burn Quran (and "accidently" being Ukrainian living in Russia...): https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2023/08/16/7415816/ So it isn't impossible that we just see small Kim Dzong Un in statu nascendi. There also a possibility that Kremlin would like to assert his power in Chechnya, bring Russian governor and break monopoly there of Kadyrov clan. Muscovite population would love that, as Chechens are hated in Russia almsot universally. But it is a risk and given current situation, Putin may choose easier path of preserving current system. What I wouldn't count for is some wide anti-russian sentiments int he form of uprising. This chapter seem to be over, as first generation of Ichkerians is scattered abroad, dead or too old. And second one took heavy beatings after ISIS fall; there were rumours that quarter of Pankisi valley in Georgia was covered in mourning after Mosul and Raqqa fell...

Still take with solid grain of salt:

Not the first time, in the past he had similar incidents. It's good he didn't shoot anyone. One of his escapades is connected to the legend of origins of this dumb slogan "Ahmat- Strength", that has no sense in any normal language including Chechen. Namely, he was supposed to get in one of his narco rides in downtown capital during time when he tried to transform his bodyguards into fighting unit. So stoned Ramzan think and thinks about name of this super-duper commando, crossing neon-covered streets of midnight Grozny in a limo while listening to chilling music and possibly gently stroking head of his favourite escort-goat. Suddenly he stops the driver and stare at a billboard over bulding in one of backstreets; spark of genius enlightened him- he sees a gym called Strength (Sila) belonging (in small letters) to certain Ahmat! So, never allowing that such mundane thing as ortography stand between him and his great idea, he name entire unit, youth movement, school curiculla and his new slogan after it. Curtain. Of course original Ahmat get lost somewhere very soon, as well as name of his gym, not to compete too much with brilliance of young leader. And later they invented official version that it was about his father Ahmat Kadyrov being supposedly strong. Which have even less sense. But in all true, it was because "Christian" Kremlin pushed him to use some replacement for "Allahu Akbar" cry his goons shout during firefights, assasinations and later in war in Ukraine. Which of course didn't worked out too, since they howled like jihadis anyways. You know: political PR in Caucasian way. It doesn't need to have any sense, story is full of bodies and soon everybody forget why it was invented in the first place.

The question is- Is he still? Taking into context of current war? Well, it is very probable now that his own neurosis could cost civilian lives on the ground. Doesn't sound very private to me. Well, at least that is how Musk himself present his facts...I am not sure if I believe him frankly on that matter. But overal- yes, among others we are talking about competences in spheres he has no authority (and often recognition). We are in the world of real brutal poltics here, where action and inaction equally can lead to bodies being torn apart. Not far from the kind of dillemas known to generals in their command posts... This is simply not his league.* Add to that well- known, and very carefree attitude to historical facts regarding this war, with taking radical positions up to spreading Russians narratives publically- this can also have not-small weight, considering his wide fanbase. He was never neutral about political issues and has visible problems with balancing his views. *Of course there is an irony in fact that others, perhaps much worse business leaders simply stay away from politics and nobody has any problems with them being silent on Russian aggression. But again, repsonsibility goes in package with the fact you now decide about human lives. He decided to help UA early on- good for him. But it's like with helping drowining guy: one cannot stop halfway and simply loose interest. There is not private here, there is political all the way along with everything that is connected to this war. Btw. similar charges go with Pope Francis, albeit in very different form. Yup, this is the point. What if similar situation would happen if conflict would involve less-than-official but real warfare on behalf of US soldiers, being put to danger by his actions? Would Musk still could duck under his private status and apparent psychical quirkiness? I think America should seriously rethnik the way public sphere cooperates with private business, when it overlaps with actual strategic interests. And of course it is very difficult task in a world so obsessively glaring into future technologies. Ok let's close this Musk debate perhaps and once more look at those beautiful burnout wrecks in Sevastopol.

There will be books written about this topic undoubtedly, so I wouldn't judge too harsh yet- we know very little what was happening in cabinets during last two years, and little on how Russia and US reacted to each other. For now we don't know what US government believed to be frank, and how much of weapon delivery lag was done byother factors like too stiff roadmap, boiling frog strategies, general "overthinking" entire issue, extreme internal political pressures (a fact Musk must not take into account in his company) nor sole fact that leading a country, especially superpower, burdens you with devilish sense of responsibility that Musk does not have slightest idea about. I don't see a lot of sense in comparing a job as some CEO and leader of any state either. If so, recognized political organizations should behave much more cautiously than business companies; they have so much more to loose. Unless one is Russia, of course. The problem with Musk is what Steve said- he jumped the line of his competence. Smart, responsible person knows limits of his power- this guy does not. Also I don't buy this "end of the world" explanation for a moment- Musk is not stupid. Care for his satellites and, less romantically, factories in China that other users put forward seem like much better explanations.

Brutal. Missile hit Minsk directly midship? Anyway, they should perhaps now change "Kilo" class to "Interceptor"...

Glad you like it. Not entirely correct use, need to admitt, but more discrete than emboldening or underlining. Interesting issue...several more strikes like this and BSF may run out of places to repair and maintain.