Currahee150

Huh. I thought it was the other way around. Interesting. I wasn't really sure. I kinda just assumed it was the motor. Thanks for the info. I know the Jav was suppose to be put on the USMC Expeditionary Infantry Fighting Vehicle, so it's possible. They just haven't done it for cost reasons I imagine. Or they think the TOW can still do the job, which, if we are allowed to use a computer game as any guide, just isn't true.

That is quite true.

I get annoyed when War is Boring runs articles essentially saying the Bradley is still under armored, overpriced, and inefficient. "Did you even watch Operation Desert Storm?" The Bradley does its job. Not saying it doesn't need a replacement, but it does what it is designed to do - even if the media tries to say it doesn't. I also get annoyed when WSJ calls a BMP " a tank," but that is another matter entirely. Found the articles. First one talks about that "heavy" IFV Panzer mentioned. https://medium.com/war-is-boring/the-u-s-army-wanted-to-replace-the-bradley-38-years-ago-dffb6728dd11 https://medium.com/war-is-boring/the-comedy-the-pentagon-wishes-wed-forget-2bc6aaa69457 If there is one thing that needs to be changed about the Bradley...FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT IS GOOD AND HOLY REPLACE THE TOW-2! Seriously. Modify the FGM-148, give it a bigger rocket motor for some more range, and put it on the M2/M3. Yeah, it will cost a lot of money. But from my experiences in CMBS, the TOW on the Bradley is pretty much a statement saying "If we are really lucky, we can take out a T-90 at 2 clicks." The TOW is pasts its prime. It's too slow - the target usually moves into cover before the missile is even halfway there - and if the OPFOR sneezes in the gunners general direction, he flinches and the TOW elects to try and join NASA.

I thought it would be something like that. Still...so a vehicle that performs less tasks than the vehicle it is supplanting costs more? Why does that not surprise me... I'm probably being too hard on the Stryker, and am being biased from the perspective of high-intensity warfare. From what I can tell, when it is deployed to missions that it is designed for (COIN/reducing casualties from IEDs) it does its job just fine. Deploy these things to WWIII, however...well, lets just say if CMBS happens in real life, I hope I'm not assigned to a Stryker unit. I still think its funny that what is basically an MRAP on (heavy duty) steroids costs more than a IFV with a dedicated ATGM launcher, thermal CITV, and chain gun. Even if the IFV is nearly twice my age. While your analogies may be...unique, they always get the point across. Ok...I deserve this. But you get my point. I know it cost more than a few Xbox Ones to equip and train Private Miller. It also costs significantly more to pimp him with a 7.62mm proof ride.

Yeah, but boots and an M-4 costs probably less than 1200 dollars (I think...). A Bradley Fighting Vehicle costs 3 Million dollars, and a Stryker 4.9 Million*. Sure, those vehicles carry more than one guy, but they are still quite expensive. And not as strategically mobile as light infantry. Also, a light infantry company, if I believe correctly, will have more soldiers to do infantry tasks than a Mech Infantry company, as well as less maintenance to worry about. *Ok truth be told, I have no idea if those are adjusted for inflation. Just a quick internet search. I don't know why a Stryker would cost significantly more than a BFV.

"Fire and Maneuver is the name of the game." Ok, that may have been Band of Brothers...but CM taught me why it was tactically relevant.

Oh yeah, I agree if the Saddam hadn't decided to emulate Hitler at Dunkirk and driven south to Saudi Arabia, then Operation Desert Shield/Storm would have gone down very differently, and Gulf War I wouldn't be remembered as M1 rolfstoming T-72s, but rather as an operation at saving the 82nd Airborne chestnuts from the fire (that would have been an epic evacuation...might have given Dunkirk a run for its money, which isn't a good thing)and then watching an amphibious (at least, I suppose it would be) invasion of Saudi Arabia. I guess in the overall scheme of things it wouldn't make today too much different, but the early '90s would have a very different vibe to it. I think Javs could have given the 82nd a fighting chance, but you point out some inescapable operational realities that even with Javs, the 82nd's stand could very well have bee military defeat waiting to happen, Javs or no Javs. While we're at it, why did Saddam stop at the Saudi border? I know Hitler freaked at his forces being so far forward and exposed (or at least that's a theory I heard), but why did Saddam say "I could totally own the Saudis right now...but nah"?

@sublime Thanks! I'm about to get an...abrupt introduction to military lifestyle, so I'll take all I can get. @Apocal As for how Desert Shield would have gone done with Javelins, I think we could pulled it off (only if we had the then-fictional Javelin though). Iraqi moral is not, er, world renowned, (heck, they even managed to make the M1A1 look bad against ISIS), so I think the first few companies disintegrating from missiles that literally fall out of the sky would have sent them into retreat. And it is my understanding we had significant air support in the region, so we could have suppressed some of the Iraqi artillery. But yeah, you are right about the flanks - I wouldn't have much faith in the Saudi National Guard, so the 82nd could have been surrounded and eventually destroyed as it ran out of ammo. This is all conjecture - I may not be giving the Iraqi Republican Guard enough credit (I mean, they did actually launch counterattacks in Desert Storm, albeit short lived and futile ones), and I may be hyping up the FGM-148 up just a tad too much. .

Beam me up, Scotty. But yeah these were taken widely apart in time.

Swingfire has been gone for a couple of years, and without a direct replacment. I think the FGM-148 is the closest thing to a replacement in the British Army, but only manportable rather than vehicle portable like the Swingfire system.

My guess is that VT would inadvertently act as primitive radar guided AA fire, with the radar detecting a aircraft in it's flight path thus trigging it's fuse. Just my 2 cents. Wait. You never said "aircraft." Ok so nevermind. Yeah I'm not sure why they'd say that. The canopy theory is the best I can figure.

@sublime My bad. Yeah I agree. Javs provide a much happier ending for many Light Inf scenarios. Again, against competent enemy it can still be tough, but if the terrain is on your side it can rapidly become a bloodbath for the attacker as Javelin apocalypse rains down! @augusto To my understanding, Light Infantry means nothing really bigger than HMMWVS are in your TOE. So no I don't regard Styker as light infantry.

Heck, didn't even know there was PBEM campaign. Learn something new everyday! But yeah I have no idea.

A few are on the way - one based in Estonia, and one featuring the 173rd Airborne Brigade in Ukraine.

Yeah, that's how it's suppose to work. It's called "Deconflicting the airspace". I think it's handled by timing artillery and air support missions seperatly, but I feel like on the battlefield that becomes more of a wish than reality.

@sublime I never said US Light Infantry would be any exception. In fact, they were what I had in mind when I wrote my post. Javelin or no, US Light Infantry will have a really hard time (aka next to impossible) against competent mech/armor in the defense. If US Light Infantry are defending against said forces, yeah it's not gonna be fun, but it's not impossible. And yes, US IBCTS have 102 Javelins. 3 Infantry battalions w/ 24 Javs each, Cav squadron w/ 24 more, and Brigade Engineer Battalion with 6 Jav = 102.

I dunno...I've found the AT-4 pretty darn useful. Yeah, it may take a few shots to kill that T-90, but it's an excellent close quaters AT weapon in my experience.

The only way Light Infantry can have a chance against competent mech/armor forces in defensive positions is if they get some help - like a detachment of tanks, or a flight of AH-64s, or some serious on-call artillery. If its just a light infantry company versus a mech infantry company, with nothing else, the mech infantry will mop the floor with them. Combat Mission and the 11th Armored Cavalry out at Fort Irwin, California (they play OPFOR for US Army field exercises) will tell you that pretty conclusively. Airborne Not quite sure about the rest of NATO, but as for the US Army, I think the only big difference between a regular IBCT and an airborne qualified IBCT is that one can say "We are badass and can jump out planes. That is all." I think. I'm actually probably wrong about that. There are likely some differences in mission orientation - like seizing and holdiing key targets by air/from near the LZ - and Airborne IBCTs have to keep qualified for airborne ops, but once the Airborne IBCT is on the ground, I think the use the same rulebook as the rest of the IBCTs. I'm not real sure about all this though. Like you, about all I know from airborne ops is what I know from WWII. Oh, and I was wrong - modern US IBCTs have 102 FGM-148 Javelins. Not 76. I'm a perfectionist when it comes to that stuff, so I had to point that out so I could sleep.

Light Infantry in the offensive - I'm not an expert, but I'd expect they'd be used to clear out built up areas. Need that forest/city block/canyon cleared? Send in some Light Infantry. Yeah, they'll take losses, but it sure beats the hammering mech and armor could be subject to if they went in. More importantly, while Light Infantry are clearing out that town, our Armored Brigade can be slicing through the Russians lines of Communication, or immolating their reserve force. Basically, in the offensive, Infantry get to do the dirty work of house/hedgerow clearing while freeing up maneuver battalions, to, er, maneuver and destroy the enemy. If your really audacious, you could use your airborne units to seize bridges and other key areas ahead of your advance, a la Operation Market Garden, but as history has shown, that can be quite risky. Sending Light infantry against enemy Mech or Armor in the defensive however can be incredibly costly. I suppose if used infiltration to the max you could manage to negate some of their advantages, but its still going to a rough day for your infantry if you do so, and that's putting it lightly. Of course this assumes you don't have so much support. If you have some A-10s and M777/MLRS on call, it wont be as bad. Marines- Well, it all depends. The Marines can ride into battle on variety of things - Ospreys/Hueys, Amtracs, or their own two feet. They can kinda do what the want when the situation requires it. They can be a kick-ass mech force with LAV-25s, M1A1s, and AAVP7s, or they can go to their roots as a Light Infantry force with a handful of HMMWVs and their boots for transportation. A for their performance in OIF, well, yeah the Iraqi Army isn't the Russian Ground Forces, but you can still take some lessons and results from that war and carry them over to how it would go down with some Russians.

And people wonder why I want to branch armor. But for real, yeah that some luck right there...I think your opponent will have an unpleasant next turn.

Wait...did it penetrate? I mean, I assume it did, but the text box does not say if it actually did.

Well, I think light infantry's strong point, at least in the strategic perspective, is mobility. Case in point - a brigade from the 82nd Airborne can deploy worldwide in 24 hours. An Armored Brigade Combat Team from, say, the 1st Cavalry Division, will get to Europe in a week or so, hopefully before T-90s are camping out in Kiev - and that's probably an optimistic assessment. Also, I think most countries retain significant amounts of light infantry. Most of the Baltic states only have Light infantry (well, one decided to be nice and give its brigade a ride in ex-German M113s). The US Army will have 13 Infantry Brigade Combat Teams by the end of 2017, and although these are equipped with a decent amount of HMMWVs (52 with M2 HMGs/Mk.19s and 28 with TOW-2s), at the end of the day the maneuver battalions are going to have to take Hill 284 or whatever the old fashioned way - on foot. And not all of them are airborne qualified - I think only 8 active duty IBCTs are airborne. The US Army national Guard had even more IBCTs. So Light Infantry remain a staple, even in the most splurged upon military in the world. Of course, just because you can get a Brigade of the 82nd Airborne Division to say, Ukraine, the day after a Russian Armored Corps rolled across the border doesn't help you if you can't effect the situation on the ground. In that sense, our Airborne Brigade (US Airborne Brigades, are, by the way, organized on the exact same lines as other US Infantry Brigade Combat Teams - or pretty close to it) would essentially be a delaying force (the more blunt term is speedbump) to buy time for the M1A2s and such to deploy from CONUS. If you have ground to trade for time, Light Infantry would play to their strengths and armor/mechanized force's weakness. That is, make defensive positions in urban areas/rough terrain, where armor will be much easier to deal with and you can face the enemy on more even terms. That is another of Light Infantry's key advantages - while the 60 ton M1 Abrams will get bogged down in that swamp real good, Private Miller and his M4/AT4 can cross it just fine (just don't expect him to be real happy about it.) If you really have ground to trade for time, well, if I had A US Infantry Brigade, I would use my Javelin ATGMs to full effect. IBCTs have an ungodly amount of Javelins - 76 to be exact . I would deploy in a good ATGM position, and pop off a missile at the first BMP I see. While the OPFOR armor would probably have to deploy and search for your ATGM team, you can hop in your HMWWV (the FGM-148 is Fire and Forget, so once you pull that trigger you can skedaddle) and fall back past another missile team that is in another good position. While they give OPFOR another surprise when they reorganize and come back down the road, you find another good position and set up. This causes the OPFOR to have to keep deploying and wasting time. Even if OPFOR takes a "damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead" approach, you can still attrit them a good bit and have the odds a bit more in your favor when they reach your prmary defensive line. This whole approach, of course, assumes, you have ground to trade to time, and I doubt most politicians would like that option. So again, Light Infantry will deploy in easily defensible positions for them - broken terrain, woods, urban areas, bottlenecks, etc. Of course, the problem with that is that the enemy might not want to attack your modern rendition of Stalingrad, and instead elect to make your little town into a modern day Bastogne - without Patton coming to the rescue. While Light Infantry are strategically agile, Theatre and tactically wise they are sluggish compared to a Combined Arms Battalion (well, maybe not logistics wise, but maneuver wise). So you have to deploy them where you know the enemy is going to attack, which, unfortunately, may not be the most easily defensible position. So next scenario - the US III Corps is in Theatre and is duking it out with OPFOR. What's a light infantryman to do now? Now they would act like a fire brigade - kinda like the 101st Airborne in WWII. They would reinforce buckling areas of the front, due to their mobility (am assuming we give them trucks for this part of course) and act as speed bumps against any OPFOR breakthroughs, and buy time for heavy forces to reposition. Also, they would be used to attack broken terrain and urban centers, where we don't want to send our heavy armor in or want to use them in a more effective manner - like going for the jugular of that Russian armored division. As for attacking, I think NTC has shown plenty that sending light infantry, Strykers or no, against armor is asking for a bloodbath. Ok, so I have rambled on enough. Here's the bullet point answer - Many countries still have light infantry in significant quantities -Light Infantry's strong pointers are strategic mobility and abilty to move comparatively easily through rough/impassable terrain -Infantry can give armor and mech a hard time in urban/rough terrain. -Can deploy as theater fire brigades - assuming you have the assets to move them in a timely manner. If you need clarification (or want to tell me I am an idiot and have no idea how to use Light Infantry - which is perfectly fine with me!) just let me know. Oh, and I, uh, kinda forgot about your "British Airborne Unit as an example." I used an American IBCT since I'm more familiar with it. I guess the difference with the brits would be less javelins - 16th Air Assault Brigade only has 27 Javelins, I believe Oh, and as disclaimer, this was written by a 19 year old with no (current - but that's going to change in 14 days) military experience. So I could be completely wrong.

Earlier that day, I also got to see a pair of B-1B Lancers perfrom loops above Colorado Springs. (USAFA had graduated the day before, but IDK why'd they'd come back.) These pictures, because I'm crazy enough to pull over on the side of the road at Fort Benning and take pictures of tanks. On two separate occasions. The highway I frequent for travel has Anniston Army Depot up the road, which refurbishes the M1 Abrams (among other things - I see Strykers, Bradleys, and MRAPs pretty frequently), so I got to see a USMC M1A1 going in for an appointment. There. I have now overloaded you with pictures of military vehicles. Everyone will now think I'm crazy. Or report me to the NSA. Probably both.

I bit the bullet. Photo heavy post follows. You have been warned. This guy waved More images of M1126 DVH Strykers. Side view. M1133 Medevac Vehicle. M1130 Commander's Vehicle. Not sure what these two are.

I probably should have used the word "follower"...less connotations. That answers my question...I completely forgot about the DVH Stryker, and I had no idea they elected to ditch the M1127. Interesting. Thanks for the info. I'd love to, but I've run out of space to attach files, and I don't have an account with Photobucket, etc...any workarounds? Of course I could probably just bite the bullet and make an account. It does say it is free.