Waffen_PL

Maybe this was discussed before but i couldn't find it. I have noticed few strange things during game. 1. Vehicle(tanks, destroyers, sp guns...) turning time. This is IMO problem with all CM games. Why they are turning so slowly. You can watch some movies on youtube to see that even world war 2 tanks were quite efficient while doing such maneuvers. Even such monsters like Jagdpanther is turning within few seconds. In game most of vehicles need 20-30 seconds to turn 90 degrees. Why is that? Is it for some game play purpose ? why? 2. I've noticed that sometimes my tanks despite clear lose to target stops targeting it for a while or even loose contact with him although nothing has changed. I hope you understand me For example i had such situation: My JGPZ IV saw stuart tank and start to turn and aim at him but after few seconds he stops targeting and turned slightly left. The turn ends and I directly ordered him to engaged this stuart and once again JGPZIV start to turn, aim and him and again he stops and turn slightly left after another few seconds he finally aim at him and fired. Few turns later i had similar situation with panther. I wanted to engage sherman tank. In lost waypoint i used face command poiting that sherman but panther had ignored this and his turret was pointing to the right(there was nothing) When sherman fired at him he finally saw him and shoot back but missed. After this panther lost contact with him and turn his turret right. Last shot killed my panther ;/

I will try to write something later. My English isn't good so I'm not sure if I'm gonna make it Yes Tigers were bad. Very bad. As I said before I'm not talking about single battles were they had outstanding results over enemy tanks but at operational scale. They were huge burden for a German army and unparalleled unreliable

King Tiger had much thicker armor then Tiger I . For example Frontal Hull was 100-150mm at 50° and turret front was 180mm at 9°. But i never used him in CM. About the effectiveness of allied guns against Tiger. I'm not sure right now so I don't want to misinformed but from what I remeber- theoretically 75mm gun should be able to penetrate Tigers armor up to 400-500m depending on kind of used ammunition. However the quality of steel used by Allies during testing was much worse than German and quality munition itself was bad too. In fact 75mm proved to be usless against Tigers armor. But that was same for 76mm. It supposed to be answer to german "cats" but it wasn't. Probably munition quality problem was somehow solved during war but initially 76mm had great problems with tigers. I think that effectiveness of 76mm against Tiger in game is too good. Specially during early stage of Normany battle. Here is nice site with lots of data. However as I think this are theoretical data so they can be far from reality http://www.tarrif.net/ Tiger tanks and others german monsters are great subject. There are many myths around them but they were rather bad tanks. It's a paradox. They were winning battles in very spectacular way but they were also loosing for germans war in same spectacular way They were operationally useless.

I'm not sure but i think that slow movement doesn't work too. I placed 3 waypoints just like Rocky said but it doesn't help. The road is too narrow, although visually it looks drivable for me but AI thinks differently.

I have noticed that vehicles have problem driving through narrow routes. I don't have a picture of such situation so i made a screenshot of such place and put some arrows showing this situation(green arrow shows expected kubelwagens route and red shows what the car actually did): Kubelwagen turned too early and drove right into bocage. After few second he decided to go around. I've got 1.11 version so I'm not sure if this is still present in 2.0

No it wasn't my statement. I was only referring to someone who said that there is Western View of WWII and "Russian" view. I wasn't agreeing with word "russian" view. But if we are talking about this there are some important differences between Western and Eastern view of the War. From western movies and documents I see that in west people think about WWII in more exalted way. They see it like a great crusade against evil. They like to watch in movies the brotherhood between soldiers their higher goals and patriotism. Of course there is violence but it's a little bit in a background(I don't have better word for this) It's western school of WWII movies. In eastern portraits of war there are much more shades, and there is bigger accent on senselessness of war and it's violence etc. It reminds me an american view of Vietnam war. Much less exalted. That's probably because we had much different experiences during WWII About "Stalingrad "It's very good movie but "FPP Style too" and I'm bored of them . But this is german movie and Germans were in center of WWII. They have experienced western front realities just like eastern front barbarism.

That's true. It's huge difference between game and real footage. Just like difference between movie and archive film. I think that every war movie and game about war should not try to be powder it because its bad and its only garbling and distorting the true image of war by making it more innocent, fun and pleasurable. But yes different movies or games got different scope of war and shows different aspects of it. So it's probably unnecessary in Combat Mission to show man dying in convulsions (although if it would be technically possible I don't think it would be bad, but it's rather unnecessary. But in game like ARMA i think that such things should be there). But we were talking about different thing not such extreme horribleness. The scope of CM is tactical battle. Different kinds of weapons should be modeled in realistic way just like their impact on surroundings and man. As I said in this case it's definitely unnecessary to show every detail of agony but it should look realistic. Because this is how war look like. Now I still don't understand what is the point of this discussion. You don't have moral objections to kill virtual soldiers with mortar or guns and that's ok. Why? Because this is game, they don't exist. I don't feel any emotional connections with pixels generated by my computer. I think most of CM players have installed mods improving the quality of fire and explosions cause it's nice when this burning Sherman look like real burning Sherman. Have you ever before thought about poor burned tank crew. Probably no. You were happy to have a real-looking flames. So why there is now such a big problem? I will ask once more. Do you think that Achtung Panzer has crossed some thin red line? And btw adding flamethrowers but without animated impact on soldiers will look stupid. And one more think. I saw here several times such statement: Western view of WWII is different from Russian view and their experience. Such simplification is not good and a little bit harming. First of all Soviet Union was not only Russians. There were many Eastern European and Asian nations forming it not only Russians. Second, between this "Russia" and Germany there were several countries that originally did not belong to Soviet Union and they all share what someone called "Russian" view of WWII. It's probably better to say Western Europe(and US) view of war and Eastern Europe. Or Western Front experiences and Eastern Front or something like that. Maybe this is not obvious for many "normal" western people but I thought that on such forum should be well known. Gene Hackman speaking Polish is very funny but he was trying It's my favorite movie and I miss such movies. Yest it's got old but I love this operational scope, but today the fashion is to make "FPP" movies and I bored of them, they all look the same only blood and guts and if this is an american movie- specific unhealthy pathos

yes, cause i just copied it and didn't remember who wrote it. Is it such a big problem? But I didn't call you a creep

:confused: ok, maybe my English is poor but you have some huge problems with reading. But in fact, with criteria used by some users here you are a creep lol

It was a rhetoric question and i was just wondering why only my post caused such outraged that even people who wanted to see poor, burning victims of flamethrowers now don't confess to this So now I'm the only one sick bastard that has left Yes opponent's soldier. Generally it boils down to this. And virtual dead bodies left after bombardment don't offend you so I still don't understand what's your problem. I don't know whats your point here but lets me explain something. Chess is definitley not a WARgame

Nope... you didn't so why you were arguing me? I will remind you how did it start. Someone said that he is not sure if adding flamethrowers is good because of some strange reason that this is to cruel to burn pixels. I said that i want them and I want to burn enemy soldiers. I want blood and guts... or something like this. After this you had called me creepy and some other guy start to complain how this forum is degrading because of such creeps(probably creeps like me). So who is insulting who? And in fact I wasn't the only one sadistic creep who wants to burn pixel people( for example one of first posts:"ha! I wanna see em writhing around on the ground on fire =D") but only my post caused such outrage. maybe that's because i'm that stupid troll who once dared to criticize Battlefront Sims like policy and their payable patches? I don't care No I can't. Please, please tell me. tell me what's wrong with let's say Achtung Panzer. Jeez Even in Red Alert i saw burning and screening people lol Oh, there are screams(could be better) right now just like dead bodies. I never said that I wanted to see humans dying in convulsions in their own sh*t or others scenes like from stupid movie Saw. And I don't want to play manhunt like game but this is a war game and battles should look like battles and should be bloody with some amount of violence because this is the essence of war you can't mask it. To win you must kill opponent. This is the game you are playing You can't pretend that you are playing some sort of chess. But this is only game. Michael

And i have explained my point and you didn't answer questions. Why killing virtual soldiers with granades or mortars is good and why doing this with flamthrowers is not? Why dead bodies lying all over the battlefield is ok but burning bodies are too brutal? Don't you see contrary. How war should be represented in such game? Maybe this should be a game about paintball not WWII? none of this "nastiness" i was talking about... PS. Saving Private Ryan is very poor movie btw, maybe except Omaha landing but never mind ;P

Ok, I have no idea what is the viewing of WWII in US or western Europe(I'm not Russian). If it is such exalted so it's rather bad but I'm not saying that I want such things like killing prisoners, civilian executions or rapes or something like that. But this is a WARgame and your pixelsoldiers fire at each other and virtually die. There are dead bodies on a battlefield but this is how the real battle looks like. And now someone who plays such game says that flamethrowers would be too much and burning people would be too brutal. That really amusing. You don't have scruples to fire with 150mm cannon to opponents infantry but you don't want to flame them because you've got some strange moral problems with that? That's really strange relativism. So why you are playing wargame? I don't get it How do you think war should be represented in such game? MikeyD - Flamethrowers was great in BB and AK IMO

You're creepy I love them too

LOL. Yeah I'm so creepy. I'm sadistic just like people from graviteam cause they made burning people in their game. How creepy. And the climate on this forum becomes creepier because this game is too bloody and this attract creeps like me lol. But wait a minute. You are playing war game. You are killing virtual people and having fun, so maybe you are creepy too? So maybe your virtual soldiers should fire with paint? Or blood should be green? Do you thing that let say Saving Private Ryan should be censored? People should die there in a theater way without a spot of blood just like in old movies? Don't you think that Spielberg made an awful movie for sick creeps?

C'mon this is WAR game. We are playing a WAR. There is no point to beautify it. I want to see burning soldiers. I want to see blood and guts. :cool: This is WAR! Do you want to watch a war movie without dirt bodies, burned corpses and ripped off legs? ??? No you don't

LOL I wonder, what have you done for the civilization, besides that you are proud white Russian? PS. One thought about word nigger. I never understand that. Why this is so much tabu word, even forbidden under legal sanctions but when black man calls white a whitey or honky there aren't as many emotions and no one call him racist. Even black people call themselves niggers I don't know this words etymology but wasn't it neutral at the beginning? Just wondering ;P

yeah... it has happened once. It was called Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact. After this my great-grandmother has won a ticket for a holidays in Siberia... thnx

I think the engine is not optimized well although it's much better than version 1.0. You can try to turn off shadows but there will be little difference if any. I have noticed that game works well(except map loading time ) and smooth on my laptop (and I have got much weaker machine then you= Intel Core Duo 2Ghz, 4 GB RAM, ATI MOBLILITY RADEON HD4530 512mb) but there is significant frame rate drop when pointing camera on a big and dense woods. Specially if the camera is close to it but it's still playable. Turning off trees or enabling "show nearby trunks" options helps a lot.

They had this:

I think gun crew should be able to move gone on a short distance without packing it up and deploying it once more. Of course if there were enough men to lift it

Probably they will have more ready units models from previous versions of the game. Specially for the german side For Barbarossa they will have to do more work i think... And no one like to overwork ;P

But this is only 10$ patch(sorry, upgrade ;p), what were you expecting?

It's not the same. You still can watch only one thing at one time and miss many things that are conducting simultaneously. I think that so many people prefer WEGO over RT simply because WEGO is better And WEGO was always main thing that differentiate Combat Mission from other games

I hope you will understand what I'm trying to say What you have written here is in my opinion one of the biggest advantages of WEGO system. Evacuating for example whole platoon of infantry in response to spotting rounds within seconds would be probably impossible even today. For me real time games has two big and opposing disadvantages. First, real time gives players too big control in certain situations and an ability to response immediately to new informations and react in very unrealistic manner(for example some infantryman sees Panther tank in ambush waiting for a moving Shermans and after this player immediately stops the tanks or start flanking maneuver etc withing few seconds but in fact those Shermans shouldn't even know about this fact and should not react.). Other big disadvantage is opposite thing. Player is limited by game's interface and can be only in one place in one time and because of that most of units are out of control when player is busy. This leads to very unrealistic situation when units that are not under player's direct control don't react and adopt to new situations as they should. WEGO solves this problems in two ways. 60 seconds turns prevent player from taking instantaneous decisions and reacting to quick. Of course it's not perfect and has got it's own limitations but I find this much better than real time. Also WEGO solves problem with fast clicking and "out of control" units. In WEGO player has an "absolute"(maybe it's bad word) control of all his units, he is for example battalion commander, company commader, platoon commander and team leader in same time and this allow all units to react and adopt to new situation in proper way. Sometimes this gives a player too big control but still I think it's much better then real time. I think real time sometimes could be good in very, very small size battles, but specially its good in games like Full Spectrum Warriors, or "automated" games that are trying to simulate the chain of command like Airborne Assault. Otherwise WEGO is much better