Waffen_PL

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yeah gimme more boss!! show me how better your are than me please more

Yes if they give me thin hot dog instead of fat steak i am like angry stinky troll Seriously, you want to start it over again? So who's like troll now? Complainers have calmed down(at least for now ) so maybe you can too?

Yeah, there wouldn't be all of this mess if there were some sort of dev diaries or new informations from time to time. Right now there was one list of things that will be in MG and whole big thread about things that would not be included so we were getting worried

White Tiger is some fantasy movie as I heard Unsere Müter Unsere Väter- there was huge scandal around this. Almost a war

yes of course.People can have opinion that this list is worth 35$ that's their choice if they like, they can write over and over thnx BF, it's awesome I love you and other compliments. But why then when someone(it wasn't only me) is disappointed of something and will write it people here are feeling insulted or something and saying over and over, don't buy if you don't like it go away you socialist . And i want to buy it but I want it to look at least like previous modules. Until now modules offered much more than this list and I am compering to them. New orders of battle- rather some minor changes and very small compared to commonwealth or Gustav Line New Terrain- really how much new features is necessary for it. IMO bridges and mill and and some new textures of course. yes it's cool but it's not much really Features from GL yes, probably biggest revolution right now Yes, you are right. In fact I feel as "left wing" too, I'm definitely not neoliberal fundamentalist . For some reason "socialist" is used here to describe person who don't understand how freee market works and want BF games for free... maybe commie would be better I'm quite sure it is not true if you are not counting only Hollywood productions

Video? That's what i said no one understand each other No, I at least guarantee this one thing. No one was judging MG by watching this video. This video was a detonator

sure but it didn't look like this. The whole thing is about this announcement: Most comments were something like Yipeee, awesome cool, i love this i want this I love you BF. But when some people where disapointed of this info and said wait the minute isn't this somewhat small? Is that all? It's mostly OOB and terrain changes plus some features from GL. Then people start to be resent, don't like it don't buy and shut up. Many said as I understand that are happy of this concrete content and would buy it anyway. That's why in my opinion they are ready to blindly accept anything BF will do and they will always be happy like those lemmings that Oddball_E8 has mentioned. Maybe it is overstatement but this is how it looked like. But now we know that there probably be more so we can stop this, because no one understand each other and it's pointless. At least BF could give some new info or some clues or something

No i don't want special discount. I don't have problem with 35 dollar module and that's what i've said. I know that my English is not good so probably sometimes it's hard to understand what i'm saying but i think i have explained this enough in a post above and thats all. I can't explain that clearer and I won't About MG module i have explained it too. Steve said that we don't have full information about module, info in "The start of actual news" is not complete and my judgment is not justify, so ok, i have to wait and see apparently there is something more. But now i'm not sure why they are doing that(whatever they are doing) because most of their customers where not even interested to have something more and would be happy whatever this module would look like

well... ok... nevermind:confused: To Steve Few explanations cause we probably never understand each other. I'm not saying how you should make your business, I'm not saying that lowering prices is some golden solution to everything and you are too stupid to understand this simple fact. In fact i bought CMBN i bought CF and this 2.0 upgrade. I don't have so big problem with them even that I had to pay for them almost double or triple price compered to people from USA or Euroland because of currency rates(and maybe that's why I am more oversensitive of how will MG or eastern front look like ). It wasn't me to start this talking. I was only arguing with statement that prices are so good and better then competitions which I disagree and I point examples of companies and games with much different approach that is working and they are not going out of business. I also was wondering why I have lost most of people I have played with in CMx1 I pointed that here here it is shown like these people where only few morons who wanted game for free but this is significant number of them. So I wonder what went wrong and maybe how this can be fixed and this doesn't necessarily mean lowering prices as a solution yes, I think I am at least half as smart as i think... I can say that over and over without much effect probably.I will wait, i will see of course . I made my judgment about information that were known. You have published information about what is planned for MG. It was rather poor content in my and not only mine opinion. Of course I don't know what else there will be, however i started to get worried because you never said about anything more, there were lot of things said about what there will not be included, nonetheless majority of this community was getting ecstasy. So i start to think that there will be no will from the producer to make something more if there is absolute no demand from the community and they are happy of few bridges and the mill. And because of this I am worried. I like Market garden and i want to see good MG module but community is demotivating me and there is no new information about it

I suggest operation "Berlin" for next module

Yes, i think there is no way to go around this. I don't understand why some people say they don't need it. I have many times situations just like Oddball_E8. I wanted to hunt enemy tank or move my own to new position but carefully because of possiblity of enemy tanks and the effect of using hunt order was that my tank simply stopped for a whole minute because they saw some infantry. Using normal move order in this case can result in wrong behavior against enemy threat. If there is important problem with implementing old style hunt order, the solution is "move to threat" order. It's not the same, tank still will not continue its movement when contact is lost but it's still better than what we've got now and it shouldn't be hard to do

Yes and no. I didn't play SF or Afghanistan but I see this is the same basic engine. There are important changes but you choose "small steps tactics " rather then major changes. Which is probably good but shouldn't this reduce your costs? The difference between FI and Normandy is imo something like difference between CMAK and CMBB not even CMBB and CMBO. You had to make from zero engine for SF, than you had to improve it for Normandy, make different new units from 0 new terrain etc then Commonwealth with new units but with base ready. After this the core for FI was already done too. Same for MG. For every new game and module the core is already done in previous games/modules. It's good solution but this should be also reducing your costs of future games and modules. My logic is so irrational? I have explained my statement. I'm aware of fact that i simply don't know what I don't know and i don't know (what a smart sentence ) if you are planing something more. My judgment was based on known information that were published(and up to now there wasn't any new info) and the reaction for it of this community. In fact I'm not sure why you should make something more if majority of your community has declared that is happy to buy it even there were only few scenarios with bridges and the mill. So why you want to spend more money for expanding this module if they don't need it. If I were you i wouldn't do that I would left it like it looks now if they are happy and rest i would put into next module which they would buy it too. Or maybe it's too machiavellic? Oh, thats really selfish So what is your definitions and what is wrong with quality of games/companies i have mention? Why they are still developing and instead of going out of business? I just want to understand differences between BF's situation and their No, I've never said that... Yes but that doesn't mean that they are infallible oracles that don't make mistakes or bad choices. matrix has almost monopolist position on this niche market. And monopolist prices are far from free-competitive market prices . Unfortunately keeping high prices can have negative effect in long terms. I don't know. maybe they are doing well, probably they do. Apparently they have enough hardcore fan who are ready to overpraise but I still think that they are self constricting their market. It's a vicious circle

So if it is too hard to make old hunt order they could at least make such two orders: 1. standard "move to contact" 2 . something like "move to threat" where tank will not stop when crew will see some enemy soldier pissing under the tree 500 m ahead but only in case of contact with other vehicle, gun or AT team.

I have shown few examples of competitor companies that share same situation as BF but are using different development and prices policy. You demand less you will get less

Actually yes I can. As some post above. One core game with modules. As this is much longer time period then CMBN or FI so more modules is justify. Its imo far better and fair then making four separate but identical games for each year of the war that would differ from each other mostly with units. Any one who would have such core game will have choice to extend this game of period or part of the front he is most interested by buying module not whole new(but in sense of engine and mechanics old) game. Combat Mission: Barbarossa to Berlin? But I'm not expecting to see one product that content everything. I've said what is imo best solution. Yes, this Matrix that is keeping prohibiting prices for their games counting only for biggest "funboys"(i'm not using it in much pejorative way, so don't kill me). I've seen on web many persons very interested for example in War in the East, Command Ops or Carriers at War(like me) but they give up them or use pirated versions. Compare this to AGEOD games. Is quality of those games worse? No it is not. Paradox games? Yes they are selling modules too, but in much more accessible way, and their modules change a lot in game itself. Graviteam? Their games are changing from patch to patch Are they low quality? No they are not. No, this is not what i've said. I accept modules. I didn't criticize Commonwealth module. It is good one. I don't have problem with Fortress Italy as a separate game. Gustav line looks good two. I talking about making too many of them without good idea. Like idea of making four games on eastern front. Like Market Garden that right now looks like they are doing it ad hoc without any good idea. The project which was even consider to be canceled Maybe they are making some secret surprise but really, why they should do that if there is no pressure from community?If you don't expect them to do something more. If you are happy of this quality and will buy it regardless of it's content? Why should they make more? I was waiting for this module. I would like to play in CM Market Garden operation but seriously 35$ for a few AA vehicles, bridges and the mill? And by the way, there were many urban combats during MG operation. With current optimization level what computer do I need to play dense urban combat scenarios? Same with upgrades. Once i criticize "payable patch" and people here almost killed me, and it wasn't me to start flaming I was just responding It's always about misunderstandings. In fact I like the idea of upgrades. I wasn't negating them but I was questioning their quality. My suggest was to make more ideas for new improvements before making such upgrade. Yes, changes that were included in 2.0 were important(I even bought it) but many companies include such content in their patches. That's why there were many people that were angry about this step. They saw not upgrade but $$ patch. That's what was I suggesting I'm sure of that. Otherwise you would be bankrupt My point was that customers that you have lost because of your policy are far more than those few people who complain here from time to time. Yes, but i also mention few companies that are running within same difficult market and are using much different and more customer-friendly policy. Is their games quality lower? I don't think so And btw what is so expensive for you in making MG module? Most things is already done. No one is trying. These are only suggestions and opinions. I know that you have enough faithful fans that have beloved this game so much that they will buy it whatever you will do. And you know that too I think that you could even raise your prices because of global financial crisis or something and they will buy it anyway But i still think that some small, not even big changes could attract more players and I mention few examples of companies that are going different way. But this changes are impossible without pressure from the community itself

I had many friends and people that were playing CMx1. Most of them give up CMx2. You don't have to agree with me, you don't have agree with them. But right now you are simply ignoring these opinions just like it was only few morons who want game for free. From my experience Combat Mission has lost significant amount of players, but yes i don't have any info how it is selling it's just my experience. BF can ignore them or make some compromises. You all can ignore them and say that they have no rational argument but then don't you ever cry why there are so few new players and community is hermetic if you don't want to hear their answers

It wasn't me to start talking about money. But saying that this game is cheap because i found other game that cost 60 dollars and has pack with 4 maps for 15$ is bad comparison And yes i don't doubt that you here don't think it's too much. I know that from the beginning. Everyone knows that. I said that. But you are not all. And claiming that only few asswholes irrationally complain about this or that just because you are relating only to this forum is not true. There are to ways. BF can do like Matrix Games. Dug in with their loyal iron fans who would buy their beloved games anyway but close it for new ones. Or try to attract new players too. But making 4 identical sliced Eastern Front Games for 60 dollars with 4 modules for 35 dollars and x upgrades for 10 dollars where for example one upgrade will add flamthrowers second will add gun camo and third would add better hunt order is not good way.

So if we are talking about money and prices few thoughts: If we are compering games it's imo better to compare games that are addressed to specific players or community - wargaming and history in this case. In this case. CM prices are high and specially if someone want to have at least one full game(modules cost like most regular games). There is very little competition in this genre so probably best to compare is Achtung Panzer/Graviteam tactics.Otherwise better then comparing with something like Call of Duty is to compare whit different genres but addressed to historical/wargaming/simulation market(i don't know how to describe it, hope it's clear) so this could be for example games like AGEOD games, Paradox games(they are selling modules too but it's far cheaper to complete one game) some simulations like Steel Fury, Silent Hunter or Sturmovik and maybe games like Total War can fit this too. Maybe Civilization I disagree. I still think that this is bad move. Yes I see that you have plenty of customers who eventually would buy MG module even there was only a bridge and the mill ;P but I see many old CM players that has stopped playing CM. But whenever someone is trying to point the reasons of this you called them socialistic mind that wants something for free lol. This is not the point. There is no problem that you are selling modules/upgrades. The problem imo is even not the prices for game or module itself. The problem is all of that together. For many(of course you will not find them here ) this game is divided in to too many small pieces(but whith quite high prices) thus making this game very pricey. Right now it wasn't so bad because every module actually add something new and different(however there are some important thins that still need to be fixed while you are publishing new modules and games) but we have first problem imo with MG module. The biggest problem Imo will be cutting eastern front into as I remember 4 separate(but similar if not almost the same) games with their own 2,3,4 modules. This is to big fragmentation(and the prices are not coaxing and are not so competitive as some people are trying to prove ) for many potential customers, more than you could supposed by viewing this forum. IMO you are making same bad thing as matrix publisher. Because they are selling niche games on difficult market they treat them like some kind of luxury gods. And they are killing those games. They are closing this market to some fans who will buy games they like regardless of their price but at the same time they are throwing away many potential customers and thus making this comunity closed. And I still think that this market has some potential. There are all over the world many people more or less interested in history, military, WWII etc. This proofs why from time to time there are such succeses like Silent Hunter, Total War or Sturmovik There are many potential customers which even don't know about such games(they brought up with games like CoD or Company of Heroeos) and if they know they are not encountered by the wargamers "elitism"

I totally agree with that but for totally different reasons

And for example waclaw's posts were so petulant and ignorant that deserve no respect, right?

ASL Veteran- I'm referring to first side of http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=109972 Yes, but there was whole new nation(s) with new units same as Gustav Line(I don't have it but there was even more as I see). Right now I see that plans for MG are this: some OOB changes, some AA vehicles(that even can't fire at planes, or maybe something has changed maybe I'm wrong?) and bridges... lots of them lol Yes, as always... Don't like don't buy. Thats obvious for god sake. But there are people who like Combat Mission and people who were waiting for this module(like me) and they potentially interested buying this game/module. They have their own opinions, expectations and their worries of certain things BF can listen to them or ignore them. That's their choice. You don't have agree with them just don't flame whenever someone has different opinion or expectation, because it's stupid and it's quite common here to flame every time someone will write something different than Yippeeeeeeeee it's awesome

No, people who are whining are referring to informations that where officially announced about what they are planning to include in this module not this "amazing" trailer. And right now it looks really weak compered to other published modules. They even said that they considered canceling MG module. I hope BF will draw some conclusion and they will get some interesting idea how to make it more attractive. But why they should do that if you are happy of this. A bridge too far...

Whining about known informations about product. In this way clients who are interested can inform producers if their product is going good or bad way and what are the problems in their opinions. Producer can draw conclusions or ignore them that's their choice. You don't have to agree with them too. For most people this is something normal but you here instead prefer to flame at everyone who dares to whine or criticize your holy Battlefront instead of being happy of whatever they will do. This is what should be called acting like children. I agree with this sentence :expect nothing, you get nothing. And BF cant be blame for that. Why should they make something more if you don't want them to do that. This is how this whole free market (your best argument against people who are whining) works

Check waclaw's mod: http://www.battlefront.com/community/showthread.php?t=110567 Simply the best