IntruderPl

No need to say a word. Just watch.

Well, yes but I'm pretty sure a ricochet from a metal interior would have no chance to penetrate and ignite explosives of a tank's shell. It's all about kinetic energy. After first bounce the bullet would become a blob that has no ability to get through a metal casing. As a matter of fact I dubdt even a direct shot from 100-300m wouldn't. Thats why you use .50 as anti material weapon to discharge stuff like unexploded tank. mortar rounds etc.

Sadly I'm not so enthiusiastic about T34 blowing up from MG bullet hits. Don't think that tanks have interiors modelled in a way to calculate bullets bouncing inside. Also I really dubt that 7,92 bullet would have energy to penetrate tank shell to ignite an explosion. Expecially after bouncing inside. It would just simply get smashed and blobbed. Blobs of steel nor lead wouldn't penetrate tank round shell. I think it might be a bug you try to put into CM advantage list. Take a look by yourselves. Do they really look so fragile to be petetrated by a deformated steel or lead of <8mm bullet? http://www.russianmilitary.co.uk/sparessale/T-34-shell-01.JPG\ http://www.bocn.co.uk/vbforum/attachments/Panzermuseum_23.jpg

Still woody.

Which part of things I wrote you don't understand? I think none. That's the wooden wall I was talking about. What all real tactics we CAN use in CM has to do with bugs of soldiers getting stuck for life while embarking the truck? Knock, knock... nothing. Just wooden echo.

Yes burke, cause that kind of discussion (which is common here) is just making of soap bubbles - not anything constructive. But hey - I bet you still like it. Go ahead and keep watching.

And that's some nice contrast. Reading what Battlefront.com wrote above IS a way of solving problems with CM. I think that admitting, examining and fixing bugs is the only way that makes players (like me and some I know) come back to your titles. Even after some CM failures. By contrast I mean the difference in attitude between BF (stated above) and some super-hiper-expert-skilled senior members denying there are any mentioned fixes needed... and putting all occuring problems on player's "lack of skill to play the game". Lack of skill results in lost battles even against an unarmed enemy - not units stuck or doing crazy things against game logic and orders given. If anyone interpreted my attitude as aggressive is wrong. I am not aggressive against BF nor the game. I'm not able to "wind my neck" (as suggested) to bug denials I encounter (CMBN 2.12). I also didn't mention problems occuring to diss anyone but to help solving it. Also for my own good to make the my gameplay troubleless. Only troubles I expect from CM are results of my wrong tactical decisions, not bugs happening when giving legitimate and standard orders to my units. Note I DID NOT mention unwanted results of combat. If stuart has DESTROYed my Panther A with one shot into a lower side hull at 400m - I didn't call it a bug. Probably it had a lot of luck because I DO believe in BF's calculations of hits against armor. Noone died, nothing listed as damaged on damage list. Just the panther down. I guess it happenes. So BF please don't take my reports as aggresion. IF there might be any it's not abouf BF, CM nor bugs. It's because people telling me right in my face things that happened... couldn't happen when they did. As always I'm ready to give saves so problems I've mentioned can be veryfied, examined and solved.

Well as in many cases on this forum with "exceptionally skilled senior members" - lots of empty talking, denying and that's about it. "The game does not have bugs and if there are any let's not talk about it pretending BF made CM flawless". Looks more like a fanatic way of thinking. Nothing to discuss with. About IDG review - no, I'm not Brett IDG has it's locations in many countries around the world but just as in CMs case - it's better only to see one corner of the room, isn't it? I feel like talking to a wooden wall reading posts above. No playing skill is involved in units getting stuck nor single soldiers doing actions they were not ordered to do while rest of their team follows commands. The only skill it takes is to admit there are bugs and get rid of them. I think it requires less than pretending there are none left. And about the solutions - I gave some on different topics but can't give none on bugs. Note I didn't call a bug the situation when my crack panther A was completly destroyed by a single shot from stewart into a lower side hull. No damages on the damage list, noone died but the tank was destroyed, not knocked out. Maybe that's possible, maybe it's a bad luck. I didn't call it bug when my PzIV was hit 3 times by M4/75mm into a turret at 250m and went on like nothing happened. Nor my unbuttoned tank commander survived a top-down turret hit with 60mm mortar. Miracles happen. But things I mentioned aren't good/bad possible luck. Those ARE bugs. Maybe a rare ones but still present. Oh, and why I spent some more money at 2.0 after months after playing buggy 1.10? Because I believe(d) BF, because in fact many things (like MGs, tank spotting etc.) DID change for better. But that doesn't mean things are all great.

Learn how to play the game? Are you joking? I've been playing CMx1 when some of You were still watching Cartoon Network. I've been reporting pre-release bugs on CMx2 when some of You didn't know there's anything like CM serie. After some dozen of patches I've quit playing CMSF and got back to CMBB, CMAK since the game was... still an early alpha. My review was published on 20 august 2007 on IDG, PC World, Gamestar etc. - long long before some of You even knew about CM existance. My first contact with CMBN was at 1.10 and with it's bugs i left it to grow up untill 2.12 and what do I see after so many YEARS and money spent on 2.0? Years... and you are telling me "come back in six months"?? Where's my money I spent on this alpha? Don't tell me to wait "six months". Six months times.. what? Would you be satisfied if you'd buy a car, payed for it and the dealer tells you "come back in 3 years" (the time most cars get rid of their childhood problems)?? And that's the car you really love, you wish to have and want to drive now since it's put into sales? Don't be silly. I'm not attacking Bf nor anyone. I remember having a great contact with Sofia, Steve and programmers from BF in CMSF days. It's not serious devs introduce new modules still based on weak fundaments. I'm not talking the LOS/LOF (as I underlined it earlier). I'm talking about silly things reported many times and still happening after so many reports and patches. If CM's your religion defend it no matter if it's right, but for me it's a game and I want it to keep to it's own rules detailed in the manual. If it says "german veteran AT guns dug in forests won't see a regular US jeep speeding (fast) in the open at 400m but get spotted by it's driver" I'd say - ok, I should have keep it in mind. But why my whole team and truck gets stuck for ever when embarking or one of my squad members runs toward better future in China and blocks both the truck and this team embarked on that? Where's the logic? what if in the next patch you won't be able to fire a tank gun at all? I know - some of You will say : "The engine is what it is and people who critisize it need to learn how to play the game". That's ridiculous. Anyone has any objections? Devs, CM player super-expert players? As always - I'm ready to sent saves to show the problems. Noone ever asked. Just say a word, check the savegames and situations and tell me I'm wrong or else stop denying the facts. The space underneath the carpet is full of it.

Noone ever asked to get a savegame with existing bugs. I've mentioned several lately. Did you ever wonder why there is no sticky tread on reporting bugs. Every game I play has that topic on it's developer's forum. Not here. Why? Whould server crash or there would be too much troublesome topics or users like me? Believe me - I love CM for many many years since CMx1. I love the way combat is solved here and I'm close to call CM the best and unique tactical simulator of the galactic... but hell no. It's still an early beta of it. I've got an exclusive copy of CMSF for EMEA review FROM BF 7 days before it's market release. Right away I've reported several bugs and we kept in touch with BF for further reports for some time. Sofia even got got me in contact with BF programmers to solve things. I whould do much to make my beloved title as attractive as it could be. But what do I see after YEARS? Instead of getting rid of bugs STILL present devs focus on decals on damaged tanks. Who gives a (WORD) for decals? Those willing to play bull**** games like some EA ones! Real CM serie fans don't need that! We didn't need that in CMx1, did we? We need an excellent tactical simulator and when it is fully completed and free of bugs let's keep devs busy giving us bonuses like armor penetration decals, bayonet mounting animations or even soldiers taking a nap in a trench. But first things first. Im not mentioning bugs to kick anyone's ass. I'm doing it to make this game better. The way we all would want it. the are not much things to change. They just need some polishing. But someone has to do that. Some of pepople here act like CM with it's bugs is a religion noone can critisize. No it's not. It's just a product, a unique one that should be driven to perfection it can achieve with some work. Only after building a perfect fundaments the building can grow up. It's not with CMx2. It grows UPwards (new modules) without making the main fundaments (engine) solid. It will collapse someday and "people will die" (or put their money into trashcan). That is not what I wish for BF nor CM.

Wind my neck?? Are you kidding me?! I have PAID for that game. I didn't get it as free alpha. I'm astonished that so many people just try find WHAT NOT TO DO in game to aviod bugs comming from beneath the carpet. "Don't embark your troops onto a truck near bocage or they will stuck for life". If there's a problem embarking near bocage than the game engine should not allow it, it should be fixed or it should be written in the manual. "Warning, embarking near hedges may cause your men stuck for life". "Don't watch the screen to carefully or one of your squad members might go crazy and run in a random direction." Womble, with your attitude I bet when you go for a trip to Paris, book an apartment in 5 star hotel and find dead stinking fishes under your bed you sure pretend there's nothing there or sleep in the bathroom pretending nothing happened. Or even avoid entering a bedroom. Way to go. Keep pretending there are no stinking fishes you paid for as a bonus to your 5 star apartment.

Well yes my friend. I had lots of fun playing CMx1 for years also. I got burnt with CMSF and even after dozen of patches I never returned to that title. Now after several years I bought CMBN and... it still has lots of problems. As LOS/LOF issues might be questionable - trees, leaves, bushes, dirty binoculars, butterfies inheriting view... things like ones I mentioned in different topics can't be called other than bugs... in a polished game? I just had a team of mortar bearers stuck for life 15m from the truck they were supposed to board... and the truck also stopped responding any orders. On the same battle I had a crazy guy who decided to abandon his squad and instead of boarding a truck like the rest of it he ran over 300m in random direction for several turns while both truck and his team stopped to respond to any order. They returned under my command after the guy on his way to China met an enemy platoon who ended his tourism with 7.62 bullets. Yes, my friend, that is a buggy game. It has a lot of potential but playing it is more like walking the minefield - don't step there, don't do this, don't do that or the game will bug your truck, tank, AT gun or else. This looks like an alpha or beta - not the final product. I don't need no penetration decals on tanks in Red thunder nor decapitations in Pacific front. I want smooth, controlable and logical behaviour of my units. Even if they were going to look like CMx1. I didn't buy the game to always hear that I should get used to radicilous things, "I shouldn't try to board the truck near obstacles or units might turn into stone" or "I shouldn't expect my german veteran ATG dug in forest will spot a jeep speeding in the open 400m away while being spotted by it's regular driver". Exmaples are many. If that's "polished" than I don't want to know what "rusty" is.

BigDog, even not considering this bug would happen I ordered my truck to GO TO the gap to pick those men up - 1) to make things faster than having them running to the gap and back to the truck, 2) this truck was going "south" anyway (when you look at the image). All thing we might think of that causes those bugs might have 1000 explanations... but we didn't buy alpha, or even beta game. It supposed to be polished and debugged before release hundreds of years ago. On the same battle I had another even more crazy issue. My platoon was chillin in the center awaiting orders which flank to support (left or right). Situation got clearer so I wanted them to board those trucks and go where they're needed. All 3 squads, each split into 2 fireteams started to board their rides. Almost everything went well... but one guy from one already boarded teams went for some 300 m jog in a completly crazy direction (trucks didn't have any movement orders). He kept running to China for some !6! turns when he finally bumped into an enemy platoon and got shot. Only this unlocked his team and the truck they were at. If the enemy would take him as POW his team and their truck would probably turn into stone. I love the game (as a concept) since CMBB but can't stand those bugs ruining my gameplay.

Yes it is. I cropped the image but some 10m down the road there's a gap. Those bearers got out of THIS truck and went to their current position by THIS gap. When evacuation time came... they couldn't move. No orders could be issued. I could issue any order to this truck but it wouldn't do a thing. The rear cargo door is also closed.

I still do get firing/aiming loop with tank seeing the target through bocage (standing next to it), red LOS, clear LOF... and nothing. Wasn't able to take out that painfull mortar.

I just had different but somehow similar issue. My whole team stuck i CMBN 2.12 I ordered mortar ammo bearers to board a truck. The truck had a 15m movement order to get closer to the bocage gap bearers were going to move through to reach the truck. For some 5 turns I have ammo bearers stuck doing nothing, unable to give any orders. Also the truck does not respond to any order. Movement, bailout, nothing. Finally they got destroyed not being able to evacuate during 10 turns. Savegame availiable if anyone's interested. See the link for situation. http://imageshack.com/a/img856/3569/tjzb.jpg

I completly DO agree with base words said in first post of this topic - demos save cash and frustration. Unfortunately I trusted BF too much after CMBO, CMAK etc and bought CM x2 title (all updated CMBN). After many other bugs I just ended loosing my battle by not being able to transport my critical mortars to another positions by truck. They just petmanently stuck with their icons half transparent (as embarking), trucks they were going to embark unable to undertake ANY order. All those units were stuck for many turns until destroyed. Let's face the truth - the game might be WONDERFUL and has a great potential but is so bug infested it's just a matter of time when a person who spent his money for it will shoot his head instead of buying another title of CM series. Well, ofcourse there are those who don't mind obvious bugs ruining the gameplay... and I think this is the target for BF sales. Not those willing to spend their money on a polished product.

Please be sure I'm not going to critisise without any solution tips. I just didn't had time yesterday to describe other problems or improvement solutions. I was even thinking of making a videos showing things I'm going to mention but yes - I'll leave this for other topic. Here and now it would be nice to hear from devs are we going to get a descent way of leaving buildings in a planned/controlable and less risky way? Again : putting a waypoint just right out the door you want to leave through makes your soldiers sitting ducks. Just like on the screenshot from the first post on this topic (the tank threat).

Guys guys, guys. It all went off topic! Exiting through windows is not the point of my suggestion! CHOOSING the doorway to exit IS. It's really rare to exit thourgh windows and is't sure not faster nor safer. To do it you need to take some time on breaking the window and clearing it from glass that might cut you up. In old times windows were composed with several smaller windows spilt with wooden bars. Also those (main) windows were often double. To break such construction would require some time. It's not hollywood! LET'S GET BACK TO DOORS - it would be really good to make a better (more) use of combining the FACE command for better and more logical smoothness of the game. Ofcourse we might get used to things the devs have failed to DO WELL and work out ways to live with that... but if the next patch will stop our soldiers from shooting at enemy will you also try to get used to that?? I've been in love with the first CM series. I was reviewing Shock Force for EMEA market 7 days before it's release. Even though I found TONS of bugs I really believed this will be a great game. After 8th patch (or something like that) the game was still a ruin although less buggy. I stopped to play CM for years. Now I got back to it with Normandy at 2.12 and now after 12 years I still see terryfing bugs. We can try to get used to that but WHY THE HELL devs didn't fix more important bugs before getting into non important s**t like textures for hits on tanks in Red Thinder and 3.0. WHY NOT TO FIX EXISTING BUGS or make things more natural in the game behaviour? After some 3 months of playing CMBN with pain of ridiculous things happening I found that devs probably don't use alpha testers no more. Yes I am irritated. Now, let's get back to picking the exit door topic

Hi, my few last battles were in the cities. In building to building fights one of my nightmares was AI pathfinding and exiting houses. The real pain in the *** is lack of command that tells your infantry which doorway should they use to exit the building to proceed with the waypoint. A FACE command might be used to select exit doorway no matter where the next waypoint leads. This would be VERY useful to cease randomisation of exiting in several situations AND would not stall your soldiers for life threatning seconds on the first waypoint you now NEED to put to determine other than direct route to waypoint. Example : Squad on 1st floor, doorways to the North and South - both under fire but there's a tank to the N and just sniper to the S. All in all you want to go West. Now your toroops' route is kinda random. But what if you preffer to leave by southern door and be exposed to lighter fire? You need to put the first waypoint to the south and the next to the West where you want to go. Holding still for 5-7 seconds in the open just outside the doorway is not good - even in light fire. And what if there's a tank to the N and machinegun to the S? Both are deadly but I'd go south. Nowdays it's a Checkmate but it doesn't have to be. Solution - give additional function to FACE command to determine which way infantry should leave the building. Problem solved! Your soldiers are on the 1st floor and need to exit to the south and IMMEDIATELY go to the West. You give a face waypoint to the south and the first waypoint to the West. They gather at southern exit and leave the building to reach the waypoint. You might ask "how would you solve the situation if your men already have face direction and are gathered toward south but they had no waypoint previously". Well, simple depending how devs would do it and what the engine would let do. 1) if soldiers already had southern FACE giving a waypoint to the west might already cause them to leave via southern doorway and proceed west. If the engine would not let it happen then comes solution #2 2) if troops are facing one direction (any) on the order phase you'd give them fresh waypoint to on location where they are, put face target on that waypoint (south) and then the text waypoint to the west. Regards, Intruder

I haven't been playing CMSF since 1.05. After a looong while I got an email saying that Brit Forces were released. I patched my game to latest 1.11 (great) patch and I started to love tha game again so I went on with British Forces. Everything is just great except I do NOT see a Hummvee models in neither US or BF campaign and even in QBs it's not visible. I can only see the crew/driver floating above the ground. Sometimes when I play Brits vs US I can't see Abrams tanks neither. There's a floating icon of the vehicle, it's selection base glows and there's also an arc on it probably indicating the front orientation. Just at the ground I also see a tiny triangle which probably is a pivot of the model... but no vehicle seen. I don't really know what is the problem. My system spec is quite high with lastest drivers and stuff. I got Intel C2Quad Extreme (4x3GHz), 3GB RAM and GF GTX260 896RAM and all under up to date XP Pro (32). Everything I play or launch works perfectly, every game, every software... it's just those missing hummers. I can live that but it's hard to plan an attack on Abrams not seeing it as well as it's turret orientation.

Hi, after a "long time no play" I've installed 1.5 patch. I launched a QB to see what changed. Now T-72 can kill Abrams... and has killed two of mine. None of other two has fired at it. I even drove my M1A1 23m away from the T72 and it still didn't notice the enemy even when ordered to fire at it. The crew reported "enemy armor sighted" but they ignored it. M1 got 3 shots from T72 and didn't do nothing. The other one flanked the target from the other side and also didn't do nothing... except becoming a third victim of the Syrian tank. Here's a screenshot

Air/Artillery support friendly fire is not the only problem with AI friendly fire. In dawn/dusk environment my forces divided into two attack groups (distance some 600m) happened to shoot each other. One time I saw US squad firing AT-4 at stryker moving some 15m away. Stryker was lucky because the rocket hit the wall between target and attacker. However friendly fire does no harm (except At-4 I guess) and no suppression in CMSF but I think if devs ARE going to provide ff effects (kills, suppression) they should think what makes my men fire each other right now. I think it would be wise first to understand why they shoot friendlies and only then provide ff effect in further patches. [ August 30, 2007, 09:30 AM: Message edited by: IntruderPl ]