Tux

Lol, I'll see if I can't do something about it, DAF. Any other requests?

During the orders phase for Turn 6 I've got my foremost Pz IV to S&S again with a view to hunting for the flanking armour hinted at by the sound contact visible in the second screenshot in the above post. I've also ordered my formeost Platoon HQ to relocate to a position from which he can sight for my Halftrack again. Finally, my fourth tank, until now sitting in a position of limited use towards the rear of my forces, is rushing forwards to join the tank on my far right. In the next couple of turns I may try and push them through Myglas' flank, although I still want to know more about what he may have back there. I may sacrifice a scouting unit next turn.

Really? I usually find it works quite well when you can't rely on your armour plate to shrug off any return fire... Turn 5 Both the Pz IVs I have on the main flag are buttoned by the nearby explosion of a 122mm shell nearby, which also kills four members of a nearby squad. The shoot 'n' scoot movement still comes off without a hitch. Myglas' T-34 is still buttoned when my IVF 'Special' sneaks into view, and has yet to spot my tank when a 75mm shell crashes through its turret front: My Panzer immediately retreats to safety between the buildings, and waits amidst the ongoing fighting. With a second to go of the minute the T-34's crew are observed abandoning their vehicle before their unseen attackers return. My green Pz IV gains mixed results from his assault on the SU-122. My infantry fail to button the aforementioned SPG, and so it spots my buttoned Panzer momentarily before it is spotted in return. A Bloody great HE shell crashes into the tracks of my Panzer, immobilising it on the spot. In return my rookie crew have time to miss their first shot before putting their second through the upper hull of the SU: I'm actually fairly happy with this - my immobile Panzer is in a fairly useful position, keyholed in several directions. It is going to be hard for Myglas to kill it from range without some seriously heavy artillery, so he basically needs to take the flag anyway to kill it. Until then I have an armoured, turreted, gun- and MG-armed pillbox sat on the flag. Elsewhere my infantry continue to move into position unhindered, and a single Soviet infantry unit is spotted Advancing towards a hilltop in the distance: Unfortunately, my halftrack only puts two 81mm mortar shells onto Myglas' gun's position before their HQ is suppressed and the Area Fire line cancelled. I'll have to re-assign them next go to finish it off.

Elmar Bijlsmar, I was vaguely aware of that, but my Platoon Leader was only regular like the others, so I didn't expect him to be targetted before the one in front of him. Turn 4 This turn doesn't go too badly at all: The SU-122 takes two shots at my infantry in the large building, but causes only a single casualty while allowing me to measure 23 seconds between it's shots. For safety, then, I will consider myself to have a 20 second gap between each of the SU's shots in which to move or attack it. With this in mind I am withdrawing my infantry from the building. I am also reversing my green Pz IV into position to take an extremely tight shot at the SU - I'm not even certain that my tank will have LOS once it gets to this position: Secondly, Myglas has moved a single T-34 forwards into LOS of my forces, but not far enough for it to threaten anything immediately. Myglas also seems to have buttoned his T-34 before driving it forwards. I have a regular Pz IV assigned to shoot 'n' scoot for a shot at this one asap, and am hoping to get a shot off without even being spotted in return. Elsewhere I spot a distant, lone SU-122 doing an AI-style dance in the far corner of the map at 'A'. From what I saw of his movements, I expect he may possibly try and sneak around the back, possibly to where the gun is sited (and has been successfully suppressed btw). My flanking Pz IV is sitting still until I know more about what I expect to be at least a platoon's worth of T-34s. Once I think it will be safe from these and the gun, It can move out from 'B' and hit Myglas from the side. The three yellow lines you can see all follow the general direction of dispersion of a series of 82mm mortar strikes which have struck empty ground over the last couple of minutes. I am pretty certain then that the graveyard at 'C', the second area which I circled in the setup phase as posing a possible threat, houses at least two mortar teams. My mortar halftrack is feet away from reaching its destination and I have ordered it to then immediately begin bombarding Myglas' gun. I'm looking forward to the next few turns. Folds in the ground make it difficult to obtain LOS beyond 100m or so on this map, unless you sit like a lemon on top of an open hillcrest, so there are sure to be many surprises in store for both of us yet!

Not too much to report during orders, hence the lack of screenshots. I've put a single HMG and my green tank onto the suppressed gun. With a bit of luck the tank will kill it, but I'm hoping to at least keep it suppressed until my foremost Pz IV is safely between the buildings. Unfortunately the aforementioned PZ IV isn't going to move for 14 seconds due to the loss of his HQ. How very annoying. My mortar halftrack is racing up to the large building on the big flag. From behind that it will be able to target the gun's position next turn. My Main Force infantry have been given new movement orders to take them closer to the target, and two of my remaining PZ IVs are area firing at occupied buildings. One of them I know to contain an ATR team, and I don't want them constantly buttoning my tanks over the next few turns. Hopefully I'll be given another minute or two before Myglas moves any more potent AFVs into contact with my tanks.

Turn 3 Very soon after the start of the third minute of action a Soviet SPG is spotted moving into position to cover most of the target village. At the moment the best guesstimate my units can come up with appears to be along the lines of an SU-122: I'm perfectly happy with this ID if it remains as is. In the next orders phase I will pull back any infantry units under immediate threat and will be confident of my ability to stalk and kill the SU. Only two things could make that a real difficulty: 1) A large force of Soviet turreted AFVs, or 2) a well-placed gun... Which brings me, sadly, to the next significant development during this turn. Remember that patch of wooded hilltop I highlighted in the setup stage, and which persuaded me not to leave any Panzers in the open in my setup phase? Yep, Myglas thought it was a good place too. My Panzers, in rushing to avoid the three AFVs heard last turn, drive into clear view of that hilltop. Two shots ring out, but thankfully they are both abysmally aimed and fall well wide of any tanks. Unfortunately my tanks' first volley of return fire is equally wide of the mark and the Red gunners are allowed a third, more carefully-taken shot... The shell swoops past the 'subordinate' Pz IV I deliberately ordered in front, and instead convincingly kills my platoon HQ. Sod's Law, again?! In any case, the gun is swiftly suppressed, and disappears to be replaced by a Lost Contact Marker seconds before the break. Elsewhere Soviet infantry have taken up positions in each of the three buildings along my flank, and have come under determined interdicting fire from my infantry Main Force, most of whom have now stopped to engage. In particular I have managed to disembark two heavy Machine Guns in a building well-placed to cover the whole of the approach to the target town from the Russians' current position. Their erstwhile transport is also sitting ready to assist in hitting anything that shows itself over the ridgeline. The last positive to be gained from this turn is that I have successfully raced a Pz IV to the far right of the map, from which position it can threaten the flank of Myglas' units and, hopefully, force them more round to the centre: Orders phase to follow shortly.

I've often wondered the same thing - thanks for clearing it up mate.

Turn 3 For some reason I'm in the habit, these days, of not noticing obviously significant features of the terrain until too late. This time I happen to have done it 'in the public eye', so to speak. Bugger. Halfway through the minute three tank contacts are located closing rapidly on my right flank - the feature which I didn't notice and/ or move to cover until last turn. My units are caught completely unawares. I have used the orders phase to race my tanks into position to counter the threat, but at the expense of exposing myself to any forces Myglas may move down the centre. If Myglas' tanks are nearer the ridgeline than their contact markers suggest then I can expect to lose at least one or two Pz IVs next turn. I am relying on luck, now, to carry me through and hand me back the initiative which I have thrust away from myself so early and so carelessly. If I survive this minute without significant losses, I will thank my lucky stars and arrange a proper plan of action. Bugger, lol.

I've sent the orders for Turn 2. Heavy weapons have been directed to their stations and need only reach them before contact is made in order to form a very strong base of fire: If all goes to plan, I shall have a Machine Gun in building A, two MGs in B, a decent platoon HQ in C, one of his regular squads in D and a veteran squad in E. Both squads are slightly under strength, but should be able to hit any infantry cresting the nearby hilltops very hard, supported by the MGs to their rear. I have also assigned preliminary positions to my infantry Main Body, although these all use 'Move To Contact' and are subject to change once Myglas' axis of advance is ascertained. Finally, a stealthy HQ and my ATR team have been diverted across to check my right flank: There is a distinct possibility that his forces are already beginning to cross this dead ground 'bowl' towards positions less than 100m away from my flank.

I would definitely be interested David, thanks!

Jo's got it. I gave us both a 10% 'haircut' during force selection, remember? Turn 1 All goes to plan without any contact made. When I gave my orders I fast moved my tanks straight across the awkward junction near the large flag so as to get them moving more quickly. I knew they couldn't actually follow this path because the patches of open ground involved were too steeply inclined, so I was very happy to see them all weave their way around the paved junction of their own accord during playback - perhaps the pathfinding in this game isn't so bad after all. Meanwhile my infantry and support forces move up behind them:

We're off! My casualties are limited to a single HMG 42 and a couple of infantry squads. The map is as shown below - very nice with lots of lovely dead ground from which mortar-halftracks can operate safely! I have decided to carry my HMGs and a reduced platoon forwards along the main road leading towards the large flag (following the green arrow). I will allow two tanks to 'Hunt' their way along the final leg to engage any armour/ other forces which Myglas might rush forwards along the red arrow shown. Once my advanced force reaches the small hamlet which contains the flags they should be able to set up a formidable defensive 'core' while the main body of my infantry joins them on foot (following the blue arrow), under the command of my Company HQ. I toyed with the idea of leaving a couple of Panzers on the bottom right peak in order to interdict enemy movements from range, but I was afraid of Myglas having positioned guns in the two positions marked by red circles, and so let them join the main force for their own saftey. I am otherwise very happy with my tanks - only one was bumped down to 'Green' and they have an excellent HQ with double morale and double command bonuses.

For the information of all interested parties, this DAR may proceed a little slowly for a while. Myglas is without a regular internet connection for at least the next month or so. Progress will be made as and when, though.

I had some 'chump change' left over at the end of my main force selection - not nearly enough for a Sniper or a Panzerschreck - and so I bought the ATR to button Myglas' armour early and to have a scout around if necessary. Of course, should Myglas have brought along any light armour I may also find an ATR useful in its intended role. Never fear, it isn't a crucial unit. Maybe it won't even turn up on the board!

Hiya folks. I have been invited to meet the worthy Myglas in battle over the forthcoming weeks, and to post a 'DAR' on these boards during the meantime. So, without further ado: The year is 1943, and I am a German commander (again!) with 1111 points to spend on forces which I shall then commit to a Meeting Engagement on a Random map. As the sharper of you will notice, the fact that I have 1111 points to spend reflects the fact that my forces will suffer 10% casualties before they reach the battlefield in order to inject a further degree of realism and uncertainty into proceedings. I stopped short of selecting 20% or above since Myglas is inexperienced at PBEM and Quick Battles, and I didn't want to give him too much of a nasty surprise when it came to setup. Force mix and quality are unrestricted, but we have limited ourselves to 50% (max.) spent on armour, and Veteran as the maximum experience level which we are allowed to purchase. My force selection is as follows: 1 x Jager '42 Company 2 x additional HMG 42s 1 x PzB 39 ATR 1 x SPW 251/2 1 x Panzer IVF2 platoon All units were purchased as Regulars. Setup and map screenshots to follow in due course.

Excellent, thank you JasonC. I look forward to applying these rules-of-thumb in some fights against my regular opponents.

Jason (or indeed anyone else with the appropriate knowledge), if one were looking to extend the above 'house rules' through late 1943, 1944 and early 45, what would you recommend? I don't know nearly enough about relative vehicle rarity during the war to be able to estimate for myself. For example, once 1944 is reached, is it 'no holds barred' for either side? I seem to remember the German player should stick to Panther Gs to allow long 122s to penetrate their glacis fronts, but how common should Panthers be in the first place? How about Tigers, Konigstigers and the heavy Jagdpanzers? Thanks in advance for any advice you can spare.

Hi Banjar. It sounds as if you might need to scout ahead with your infantry and uncover the AT guns' position before you expose your StuG, but it's hard to say without seeing the scenario. Could you email a copy to me as well please so I can have a look? My email address is bombphoon@hotmail.com.

The Flammpanzers had delayed orders to attack that were due to come into effect in the next minute of play. One more minute would have seen all three of them (hopefully) incinerating Juste's front line positions. Bah.

Well I've heard from Juste: He apologises but he has lost his 'gaming spirit' for now. If and when it returns we will continue the fight. It's news, at least.

Hiya folks. Sorry, this is just a wee bump cos it's depressing to see this thread so low down the board. I'm working to re-establish contact with Juste every couple of days. To be honest I don't have high hopes of completing this battle, which is extremely annoying because I was really enjoying both the fight and the write-up. Anyway, apologies for the delay once again. Hopefully I'll see you all back here with some good news soon.

As a basic rule, by the way, the SU-76 will kill any german tank less than a Tiger from the flank or rear. Hide it behind elevated terrain, buildings or patches of trees and pop it out to shoot at tanks when you are guaranteed a flank shot. Against multiple tanks use 'shoot and scoot' to avoid getting hit in return - the SU-76 won't survive long against pretty much any calibre of tank gun. Alternatively, you can position it so that it has a restricted view of the battlefield, ideally from the flank ('keyholing'). This allows it to take on enemy units a few (preferably one) at a time, reducing the opportunities the enemy get to respond. Erm, what else...? Unless you have Tungsten ('T') ammo you're best avoiding Tigers and King Tigers altogether. Avoid any AFV from head on. Basically just fight dirty with the thing: Hide it, ambush tanks from the flank or rear, kill them quickly and then move the SU away, out of LOS of the enemy. The way I became half-decent at using thin SPGs against enemy tanks was, ironically, to avoid the latter like the plague. I went to extreme lengths not to get my SPGs shot at, let alone hit. The instant an enemy tank fires at your thinly-armoured SPG you have lost control of its fate - its survival depends on chance. Become good at keeping your SPGs alive first, then you can start choosing opportunities to snatch flank shots at enemy tanks, always remembering to break contact before they have a chance to respond. Before you know it you will have found out for yourself exactly what they can and can't handle. Not entirely incidentally, I did the same thing when learning to use tanks. The only real difference is the tanks' ability to shrug off certain AP rounds, which means you can be a bit more coarse when you're pushing them around the battlefield. Again though, by making keeping them alive a priority you will very quickly learn what they can and can't handle.

Cost. In both real life and in-game you want to fulfill any given battlefield role at minimum cost. The King Tiger costs too much to be bought purely as an infantry support vehicle. SU-76 1: It has thin, cheap armour on four sides. This is enough to shrug off enemy small-arms fire and protect the crew while they serve the vehicle's gun. 2: The gun and crew are mounted on a cheap, easily and quickly produced chassis, making them mobile and therefore preferable to an equivalent towed gun. 3: The cheap, readily-available 76.2mm gun fires substantial HE shells which are useful against enemy fortifications. These three features are all that are required of an AFV in the infantry-support role. As it happened, particularly in its early days, the SU-76's gun was powerful enough to effectively combat full german AFVs. This led to its use in the dedicated tank-destroyer role, whereby it would serve as a cheap accompaniment to soviet tanks wherever german armour appeared, making good use of its gun's AT performance. As more potent and heavily-armoured german tanks became more widespread however, the SU found itself less able to reliably stand up to and destroy them. That was the cue for it to be 'relegated' to a more dedicated infantry support role - its HE performance was sufficient and it was less likely to encounter german armour which it couldn't handle. King Tiger 1: It has exceptionally good armour protection. The King Tiger was burdened with the extra weight and expense of so much armour so that it could shrug off the most powerful enemy AT assets on the battlefield. 2: It has a very powerful, very expensive 88mm gun. The gun is outstandingly good at killing enemy tanks at all realistic combat ranges. For chucking HE shells (such as in an infantry support role) it is unnecessarily powerful and has less destructive potential than a lower-velocity, higher calibre weapon. 3: It has a heavily-armoured, powered turret. Once again this allows it to quickly and efficiently deal with mobile enemy armoured assets. In an infantry support role it is an unnecessary expense - the target is unlikely to be moving quickly or attempting to flank your vehicle. These three features make the King Tiger an exceptional anti-armour asset, especially on a wide open battlefield. It is overkill as far as infantry support is concerned.

The chin looks pretty hefty to me - very reminiscent of the Merlin series' radiator - and the paint scheme looks very similar to that once worn by a famous Buchon in the airshow circuit.

Might that system not be open to abuse, if implemented? A player could, foreseeing a catastrophic deterioration in his position over the next few turns, deliberately sit on the PBEM file and wait until the AI calls a halt and decides the result based on the situation as it was when play stopped. e.g.: Commander rushes units forward to take an objective flag, exhausting them in the process, and spots an armoured counter-thrust two minutes away from wiping the floor with his men, who haven't any AT weaponry. Commander sits on PBEM file for two weeks, and the AI declares him the victor.