Major SNAFU

Amen and a +1 to that. Especially in WeGo. I have tried playing in RT and I am going back to WeGo. Costs a bit in fiddling and wasted time if you don't set things up right, but I want the ability to replay the last turn. I RT had a way to click and replay the last 1 minute of action, I would probably switch to RT. This is one of those things that I cannot understand why it was left out of CMSF and now CMN. I know there must be a good reason, but it is really frustrating to have to re-plot an entire movement in order to move a single way point.

I would be interested in adding another wrinkle to this. I, for one, accept that there should be a chance that a team might accidentally take an abandoned AFV, etc. under fire (so long as it isn't brewed up, etc.) if they have just sighted it and not had the target under observation at the time it was hit and abandoned. BUT If said team advanced up to/though/in the same position as a team that had had the target under observation and had seen it hit and abandoned, then I would expect the original team to have clued in the new team as to what had taken place, so the new team would not view the abandoned tank at a threat. So if a unit move up and is in visual/vocal contact with a unit that has had the area under observation, there should be a chance of the new team inheriting some knowledge about that area of the battle field.

So, how is a gun crew to know that they may only be nipping away from the gun for a short period of time. Seems to me that you are trained to stick with your gun. If you are forced to leave the gun (truly leave it, not just take cover) then you would have to assume that you are not coming back.

As a relatively new player of CMSF, based on my observations the difference is whether the rounds detonate in the air on upon contact with the ground. Personnel is all airburst Mixed is a mixture of both Armor is all impact detonation. This is based on my looking at the replays. When I have used it on or near buildings, I have used the mixed and I try to draw a line near one side of the buildings. This seems to give a good mix of some hitting the building and some hitting the outside both in the air and on the ground.

This is all great info and I appreciate all of the responses. But what I was also hoping for was some comments from the more experienced in CMSF, are some tips as to what I could improve to kep from getting surprised by the one hull-down tank, and some theories as to why this one tank just sat there for 35+ minutes of the battle not engaging a large number of my units who all had eyes-on the area. And why, when the tank finally did fire did only two of my 12+ units with eyes-on this area notice the tank? There was at least a 15-20 minute period of time with at least 8 units all looking over the area (with cover arcs) where the tank was. And not so much as a "?" to pique my interest in the location.

Amen! And as one who doesn't currently foresee a time when I won't be playing WEGO - I hope they BF doesn't change this much, if at all.

I perhaps didn't explain myself well in my first post. I did use the F/O later in the scenario, but I kept him in the FIST. Why? Because if you dismount the F/O it shows that he only communicates by voice. He has no radio. The they delays in calling in fire missions were much longer, as a result, than if I kept him is the FIST. That was the only reason I kept the F/O in the FIST was to decrease the delay in relaying the arty fire missions. The other C2 units took forever, but was pretty accurate. I neve put troops into the barracks - there weren't many troops left to subdue when my Arty has worked the buildings over.

DO you have to have the British and the NATO Modules to make maps for these? Can I make a maps with CMSF+Marines that can be used with other with more modules? Thanks,

Interesting tactic. I found that the C2 unit associated with the Spotter also acquitted himself well with the Javelin. Took out a tank, a machine gun bunker and a ATGM while also spotting 81mm strikes. I have been finding in general that the C2 units can effectively employ their Javelins (although they seem to miss more often), which is great because I like to keep everyone gainfully employed on the battlefield. I used the Abrams around the berm first. They took out all tanks, bunkers, etc. within 5-6 minutes. Then I split them in half and had 2 move along the berm back to the right to watch the depression where I thought reinforcements might show up (and was right). Not one piece of armor (except for the problematic one mentioned above lived for more than a few minutes once they were noticed. Well, there was one other T-55 on the far side that, after watching all of this buddies get nailed near instantly, must have decided that staying put and praying might just be the only way out of his predicament.) If I had not had the Abrams, I would have used the Javelins as you did. In my case, I find that I am using the Javelins to take out enemy HMG and LMG positions in buildings once I have spotted them. I also use them to knock the sides out of buildings and then pour in an awful amount of 12.7mm HMG fire. After walking the arty along the trenches, I then walked it along the sides of the two barracks. That pretty much ended the affair just as I was beginning to assault the first trench positions with infantry (and found the tank mentioned above). I ended with most of my Abrams low on ammo (1 out) and 1/2 of my javelins still available to wipe out any remaining resistance in the barracks. (Note that I interpreted "secure" the barracks in extreme terms i.e. blow up what must be blown up and a collapsing building is good for your morale and bad for the OPFOR inside) I never employed the mobile guns effectively as I am still figuring out when they truly come into their own. I feel they are almost like a one or two shot wonder and I wouldn't spend a huge amount of effort getting them into a good position for what few rounds they can deliver. A hand full of Javelins or some more mortars would be more welcome to my style. I have no doubt I could execute this again with no loss, but it would run the timer down to 5 or so minutes.

Had a good bit of fun with this one. Got a Total victory 2 KIA 5 wounded vs. 174 KIA 87 wounded on Elite and 19 minutes left on the clock, but a couple of things caught me by surprise: 1) The Abrams tanks did a goofy little dance that I could not figure out until I realized it was because they couldn't run *over* the barrier in the middle of the highway. I figured they would crawl over it. 2) The FIST Stryker is gutless wonder. Every time I tried to get it to position itself hull down so the spotters could do their work it would pop smoke and run away. But the infantry Strykers positioned around it would stand their ground just fine. The best eyes I have and they don't have the stones to do their job... This was after 90%+ of all threats were either knocked out or degraded. I got more use out of a dismounted C2 directing arty than the dismounted spotters (which for some reason don't seem to take a radio with them). I finally got the FIST on top of the berm and got it to work out well towards the end of the battle. 3) I lost 2 Strykers towards the end to a hull down tank. But here is the kicker, I had at least 10 units watching the area where the tank was, including an Abrams that got within 50 meters of it. But it wasn't until an assault team got within 40 meters of the tank that it fired at anything or was noticed by any of my forces. And only 2 of the ten units all covering the same area (and within 100 meters) noticed the tank after it had fired its main gun twice. This from the same set of Abrams that seemed to notice every other tank, bunker, etc and take them out even across the length of the map. I really don't understand how this happened and I don't understand why that Syrian tank sat there doing nothing for 40+minutes while every units around it was destroyed or severely reduced. My forces seemed to be able to see the smallest reduced C2 force in a trench, but they couldn't see the tank 15 meter behind it even though I had units looking at the area from about a 160 degree spread. I was pretty cranked. But still, my losses were light and once the arty really kicked in it was a done deal. On to the airport.

Thanks. And how does one go about accessing the hull magazine? They who up as 3 HE and 3AP rounds greyed out in the interface. I am in the middle of a firefight (prolonged) and I am running out of HE everywhere.

Since were asking questions about mods, are there any grid-terrains for CMSF? I used to make customer grid terrain for CMx1 and send them out to people. I haven't taken a look at how the files are arranged for CMSF yet.

This is just a general question that has floated in my mind for some time that perhaps some people here might have some ideas or information about. Why do the MBT and mobile gun platforms have so few rounds? (It would also be nice to be able to modify the HE/AP composition for each loadout based on what type of battle you expect to fight). The US (and other countries) have spent so much money developing these amazing weapons systems and then, to use flying parlance, given them such short legs in terms of how long they can maintain sustained firing. What is the average length of engagement that, say, the Abrams was designed for before it would be expected to have access to reloading?

Hi all, I am trying to understand the Target Area command a bit better. 1) Why does it exhibit the "snap to grid" behavior? It is really frustrating when you know there is a enemy unit hiding right on the corner of a building, but area fire only allows you to target the middle of the building or an area of ground no where near the corner of the building. When you watch the play back, it does not look to me as if the entire area is "sprayed" when you do this. It seems like the vast majority of rounds hit the middle of the building. Yet, is the enemy becomes visible at the corner then you can target them accurately. 2) The 40mm mounted grenade launcher. When using area fire, many rounds seem to fall way short or go way long. 3) Abrams MBT HE. Seems to shoot into the ground way in front of troops in a trench.

Hi all, Interesting responses and they have caused me to re-think my question. I was less interested in the sheer number of units and I was more interested in larger maps for more maneuver room. As a concrete example, the battle that took place b/w GTL Langlade and Panzer Brigade 112 at Dompaire on Sept 19, 1944. I took a stab at making the map in CMAK once and had to abandon it for a number of reasons. To encompass the maneuvers for the entire battle, you would need to map out about 6x9 km. and all or part of 5 villages/towns: Damas, Lamerey, Compaire, Lavieville and Ville-Sur-Illon But there wouldn't be huge number of troops (and in this case you would have to substitute US forces for French forces). The OOB was: German: 1/Pz. Rgt. 29 Pz. Rgt. 2112 French: GTL Langlade 1 Group Massu 2 Group Minjonnet 3 Group Putz others might include: tank battle at Arracourt 6x12 mile map or the battle around Mont Bonvilliers ib 8 Sept, 1944 (but this would be a big map 7x8 miles and a lot of units. US 5 infantry battalion, a tank destroyer battalion and a tank battalion. My question was would the increased rendering detail of the map itself prove too much for these before you even put the units on the map?

My observation based upon a handful of scenarios so far is that sometimes, due to the design of the scenario, you have to violate #6 to get AFVs in compliance with #1 because you may (and at this point I now feel that I have to assume, unless the designer specifically states otherwise) that your set up zones are in rage and LOS of at least 1 OPFOR ATGM.

Agreed. But that is a long way to hump javelins + reloads

Thanks for all of the replies. It has really helped me to come up to speed on changing my thinking about CMSF. The one thing I have decided that I don't like about this scenario is the size of the map. It should be longer and the US forces should not start in LOS of the OPFOR. My reason for this is as follows: Given the ATGM environment, why would you advance up a road in the open towards a crossroads that you suspect might be held against you? What I don't like is the fact that you have to race the AFVs off into a semi-wooded,terrain-masked part of the map. Perhaps things have completely inverted from everything I thought I understood about employing armor, but it doesn't seem healthy to race buttoned-up AFVs into un-scouted, un-observed, un-infantry swept wooded terrain. But anyway, thanks again for all of the comments. I have compelted the scenario twice now, once on Veteran and once on Elite and only lost one Bradley (on Elite) due to my mis-judging a ridge. That is the other thing I find more-difficult in CMFS. For all that the terrain is modeled at a "higher" resolution, having the movement marker jump by such large amounts make it difficult for me to have confidence that I am creeping up on a ridge correctly. I guess I have to learn to trust that when I move Slow and select are area that clearly looks like it covers both sides of a ridge line, that the AI will move the troops correctly. SNAFU

Hi. I guess so. I mean in terms of the size of maps, the number of units, etc. For instance from CMAK: Steel Inferno v2 Bastognette Day 1 NP 3. Monty's Gambit 2 Player Only HSG B Twin Villages HSG 3AD Mud_Blood and Mines HSG-N-Villers Bocage NP 1. D-Day, The Race For Caen or even: Save Bastogne brech the german lines HSG Carentan AI play SO Saar Bridgehead 1944 The Devil's Bridge... Arnhem just to list a few examples that I grabbed from my Large and Huge folders for CMAK. My questions stems from my recent purchase of CMSF and how often I find myself on a map already in LOS of ATGMs which cause one to react in hasty and unwise rushing about of AFVs just to keep them alive for a few minutes. They I read that CMSF was, in general, on smaller maps and less units so that got me to wondering what the limits would be in CMBN. Thanks,

That's it really, just want to know if the size of battles and maps in CM:BN will return to teh size and scope of CMx1.

Thanks. If I am reading between the lines overall. You have to always assume that there are ATGMs out there and place your vehicles accordingly, correct? I would have thought that using the same approach as when you know there are German 88s out there would have led to a decent approach plan, but so far it hasn't been the boon I had hoped.

Hi all, I am fairly new to CMSF, but not to the CM series. I am really amazed at the lethality and range of effective fire in CMSF - but that is all good. In the aforementioned scenario, I am struggling to get past the first few turns without loosing at least 1 Bradley. You essentially begin the scenarios in LOS and range of ATGMs and this leads me to ask a few questions. I am pretty certain that if I just target the likely places for ATGMs and start blasting away from the get-go that I would resolve this problem. But this seems a bit gamey to me. I mean, do the US forces just plaster anything that *might* be a possible site without any regard to the ROE and to the presence of civilians? 2) When you send a squad into a Bradley to get a Javelin, there is also what I assume to be a reload there as well. Can you take both the Javelin and some reloads at the same time? 3) One of the big differences I personally am struggling with from the previous CMs is that you have many less personnel on the ground to accomplish the mission. I keep wishing I had twice as many troopers (I don't need any more Bradleys) to accomplish the mission. 4) My number one question though is this: Why did the US quit using/deploying small diameter mortars with its troopers. I mean, I would give up half of my Javelins in exchange for some 81mm mortar sections. Especially if there were reloads in the Bradleys. Al of these slightly reverse-slope or key-hole ATGMs would be easier to deal with if I could drop some mortars to suppress.

Okay. Thanks for the assist!

Hi all, It was mentioned in a LOS thread by me that you could use the target command at each way point to check LOS at same. I am having trouble getting this to work. I can select each way point, and I can set facing, etc at each way point (so I know I am selecting the way points properly). But it I click on the target command, it always snaps back to the current location of the units and provide a LOS line from that point. After fiddling with this for quite a while, I figured I must be missing something. So did I incorrectly understand or is there a "trick" to making this work.

Wow, this post could have come right out of the old CMBO/CMBB/CMAK threads (and it made its appearance in all of them). If a unit is hiding, (i.e. face down in the dirt so as not to be spotted) then it is to be expected that they are not going to spot well, yes? Or to quote Sgt. Major Plumbly from "We Were Soldiers Once, and Young. to a young reporter in LZ X-RAY, "Son, You can't take pictures with your face in the dirt." If you are looking then you can be seen. If you're not looking, then you will be surprised.