komninosm

Perhaps. On the other hand it also affects mines and oil sites and sometimes you just have no space to put the air fleets in. Is it worth it to research AA if there wasn't a bug though? I think most veterans don't use bombers and so AA isn't really worth it without the bug. Still it has some good uses, espceially defending cities and ports.

Why not get 10? 1 more army isn't going to break your game or win it. I like to get (as Axis): 1) Jet 2) IT 3) LR 4) Jet 5) HT 6) AT 7) Jet 8) Jet 9) Jet 10) LR or IT (I also like AA, but it's banned and if I feel funky I may invest in rockets or even subs or ships) The order depends on luck though. If I get lucky with Jets I postphone them a bit since investing more into them is not very efficient. If I see enemy is better than me in any category andI am eligible for catchup then I invest there sooner or if it's an important advantage for my enemy (like Jets or Heavy Tanks) that I want to eliminate.

I think all this luck problem would be partially solved (mostly the bad luck problem) if research chances were accumulative from round to round. This would mean less likely lucky techs (lower starting percentage) and less waits for bad luck long time no tech periods. Something along the lines of MoO2 but more refined for SC purposes. I don't understand why Hubert went for the total luck-random factor in research, each turn the same as the one before. It's unrealistic as well as unbalanced.

Hmm, that's a weird rule. From the manual I got the impression that all units using blitz attack would have to recalculate their supply before attacking. This seems to be a 3% only penalty always and only for HQed units. In other matters I'd like to know the randomness factor in combat. If the game states losses say 2-2 then it may add +/-1 to each of those numbers, or not. Making it a 1-1, 1-2, 1-3, 2-1, 2-2, 2-3, 3-1, 3-2 or 3-3. My question is what is the chance of each result. Is it 33% for +1, 33% for -1 and 33% for 0? Or does it depend on the exact casualties numbers from the formulae which are stuff like 2.354 and not interger numbers? From ingame experience I have to say it isn't totally random and the latter is true. For example I tried a battle that was very hard for the attacker at 1-0 and it was VERY hard (many reloads) to finally get a 0-1 result. But I tried anoter more close battle that was still 1-0 (but I guess it was like 0.6-0.4, while my first battle was probably 1.2-0.2 or something like that) and I got a 0-1 a lot sooner. I also tried many tests to assure it wasn't a lucky fluke. If it was totally random it would have to be a 1 in 9 deal. So what is the truth?

While we're at it I've got another question. Why does the readiness of a unit sometimes drop when I move it before attacking. Why does this not happen always but only sometimes? I can't figure it out.

Since USA can operate AFs to Russia maybe this can work, like historically Russians used a lot of foreign equipment anyway (though they bared the bulk of the human losses of the entire war). What is needed is allowing Russian HQs to affect them or establishing a USA HQ in russia. Can it be done on DoW turn?

So why do the Swiss give me those weird results for turn 1? I can't harm them the first turn, but if I just wait then I can kill them easy the next one. I think maybe Hubert gave them supply for only the first turn. It also means that their increased readiness is myltiplied with the mountain and entrenchment bonuses to prevent losses as well as score more in their defense against me. About the LC in turn 1, they only need average rolls, 3 from the army near Paris and 2 from 2 other armies or the London Corps making it 7 total and you have UK AF and then French AF and then Bomber if you need it. I think that makes chances to fail pretty small, but I guess what you mean is that as small as they are, the potential loss is so great (pretty much the whole game) that the small danger is unacceptably high. And also the gain is rather dubious on top. Paris will fall later, but Italy will join sooner and USA and USSR later. BTW, if I manage to place a unit on the River Hex near Brussels I usually end up with an opening in the Maginot line. Either the bottom one or the one above it. Now the AI doesn't fill it up because it doesn't leapfrog units very well and the river hex infront is allied, but I guess a Human player can take a fort and destroy it. My question is will that increase Italian readiness and how easy will it be for the Allies to kill that unit and fill the hole? If it's the middle Fort then you can attack it with the two French armies in the other forts (1 is a corp though) and you have to use whatever you bought the turn before and air power because all your troops are tied up in the LC defense. So I guess it's better to forget about the Brussel river hex instead. Right?

Rockets are very expensive and very slow, slower than armies and you can't even transport them. The only front you can usually use them is the Russian front and because of scorched Earth you can't operate them where you want to most of the time so you have to use the ones you start the war with If you build new ones they take many turns to reach the front near Moscow. Even so a few lucky tech advances make them pretty powerful with army support, replacing AF killing duties with a better soft attack. But it's the range decrease to damage that kills them for me. I wish it was less of a decrease (like 0.5 per hex). At any rate 0 level rockets are the most useless unit and level 1 rockets probably the second most useless one. I think rockets should have at least 1 more hex range to start with and with no penalty for that one. So a level 1 they would have 3 hex range with 2 damage for hex 1 and 2, 1 damage for hex 3. About tanks, is it logical how they become defense tools later on, from a realism perspective? I hope Hubert changes this as well in SC2, just like Carriers. [ July 02, 2005, 08:06 AM: Message edited by: komninosm ]

In the vein of Carrier, AF (and BB/CA/Sub) comparison, how about that anti-tank tech? Doesn't it pretty much make tanks ineffective after a couple of levels? Does anyone build rockets? I used to have fun with them in Russia before tech was normalised and tech level 5 was quite feasible early on, but now they're just too expensive and too weak and their range is small and damage decreases with range and they are slow on top of it. Lately I'm building more and more armies and corps for the Barbarossa than before. PS: I noticed in SC2 Carriers no longer are naval, they are their own category. Obviously Hubert saw the discrepancies here...

Terif, I noticed that Swiss units aren't surprised or out of supply or something (on top of starting at entrenchment 4). When you attack them the turn you DoW on Swizterland you get losses and don't score much damage, but if you wait for a turn then you can nail them easily. Why is that? Are you sure units start without supply on surprise/DoW turn? I think supply may be calculated the turn after that. Or maybe the Swiss are a special case having no city. What do you mean about PBEM? That he reloads many times? If the gambit fails and you don't get Brussels then Germans keep it at STR 10 instead of 8, but can they still increase Italy readiness by having units next to it or do you have to conquer Brussels (as Allies) before Italy readiness starts to increase? If the former then the gambit is as bad as you say. At the end you're only depriving Germany of 300 plunder and losing a lot, I mainly like to use it against the AI because I can pretty much stall it in Poland and go all in with the Navies and invade Germany from France with an early HQ and later a French tank. I was merely fascinated with the London-Calai landing when I found out I could do that and keep 1 more unit on the Maginot line so the Germans couldn't break it on the next turn. I didn't know about Italy readiness then so I thought it was workable. If Italy is so easily coerced to join then this plan won't work against experienced players. Still I'd like to try it together with an attempt to invade Italy as soon as it enters the war. Mass the Med fleets to destroy the Italians when they enter and land the Med Armies to seige Rome and cut off Italian army.

BTW, when the Allies declare war on LC and get it (it can be done in turn 1 with average rolls*) how does Italian readiness increase? I read there has to be an Axis unit on a hex adjacent to Brussels for 10% each turn, but I also read somewhere else you have to attack the maginot line too (sounded wrong). Also, what if the Allies also take the River hex next to Brussels by the coast so you can't reach it? If they get lucky rolls they can get a French army or a UK corps there (if they don't use the UK corps to attack by putting the BB in the port and landing in Calai in 1 turn). On the other hand if they get bad rolls and don't get the LC it can be pretty frustrating. Italy will join if Axis can get a Corps near Brussels (though you can attack it with armies (HQ too), Air, Battleships and Carriers. On the original subject (kinda) isn't it weird that you can take even London and provided you only have a unit inside it and none in the surrounding hexes you don't increase any readiness? You can also land a HQ (or other unit) via the port and move it to the south hex and then 1 more to the west and be safe. You can also land in south england west of London or Northern England and keep pushing without affecting readiness. It really needs rethinking (then again with the bids it becomes less problematic). [ June 30, 2005, 08:20 AM: Message edited by: komninosm ]

So with intercepting you become the attacker, but what if there are escorts? Do they become the attacker then? Also what about entrenchment (for air units)? I'm guessing it doesn't affect intercetptors or escorts, but what if your AF targets directly an enemy AF with entrenchment 2? Also what if the AF is in a mountain? (for direct attacks) Do terrain defense bonuses work (less losses in cities? I'm guessing the AntiA bonus gets used here too. Also, units in Cities get the AntiA bonus (+1 to +5), not the City AD value which is 2+AntiA level, right? BTW, isn't it weird that when you attack an empty city with a ship you get losses (and too many in my opinion), but if there's a land unit you don't? I mean do the city anti-ship artillery suddenly dissapear or something? I know it's only math and an effect of the formulae and the need for land units to have 0 ND for when they are attacked outside, but still... Carriers need at least Jet 1 to compete with AFs, 1 AirAttack and 3 AD, compared to 4 NA and 2 ND (base). Even then the Carriers cost 700 vs 400 (base and the extra AF costs with jet tech are countered by increased STR points or LR tech increases Carrier costs) so it's gonna need at least Jet 3 to become cost efficient. And Carrier AA catches up quicker than their AD (because +1 bonuses to base 1 are better than to base 3, the AD. Basically at Jet 3 the Carrier Vs AF is 4-2 on attack and 6-4 on defense for 175% cost though which means more STR points as well as more firepower). On second thought I think it takes Jet 4 to become cost efficient. Not to mention that AFs get HQ bonuses and stuff. On the other hand, Carriers can be parked in Ports for more defense bonuses and AntiA bug on top (while AFs don't get any benefit from AntiA against ships and only terrain bonuses when defending) and be repaired there too. But I guess experience is the big equaliser, because (assuming around 100% readiness) even with 2 stars 4-2 becomes 4-1 and 6-4 becomes 6-3 and so on. With 4 stars Carriers are almost immune when attacking, unless of course the AFs have experience too. They also get very good readiness because their STR gets multiplied x2 and LR tech makes them even more powerful. The carrier max is 133% while AF can get at most 127% with a 4 star Manstein. While we're at it, combat morale bonus works on a 1:1 basis of HQ experience right? So a 4 star Billiote rank 4 is equal to a 0 star Rommel rank 8, right? Also does HQ experience affect/decrease its own losses? If a HQ is in a battle it gets 0.1 XP for defending, does it also get the +/-0.1 for battles involving HQed units? I'm guessing it only affects the up to 5 units it commands and not itself. PS: Aren't 9000 MPPs for Russia a bit too much even for veterans (bid 300 on 1:5:30)? EDIT: Also as tech goes up, don't carriers become very vulnerable to ships (BB, CA and Sub)? Isn't this counter-historic or something? [ June 30, 2005, 08:15 AM: Message edited by: komninosm ]

With FoW on I thought there may be surprise interceptions/escorts or something (from hidden units). Obviously you can't move air units like land units. I also know how to leapfrog units. One weird thing I saw one day was the AI cheating. It moved a Carrier and spotted my sub and then that very Carrier launched an attack on it. I know I can't do it myself and am 100% sure my sub was hidden before (I checked with FoW off) so I think the AI can cheat like that. I also think that if you declare war to a country (like Vichy) you have a surprise bonus the first turn, but if you get a surprise contact (ie send a tank to the Marseile corps) you lose the surprise bonus. I also think you lose mountain (terrain) bonuses, maybe. At least tried a few tests there. I had 3 tanks to take Marseile in 1 turn. I did 0-4 with each on attack, but when surprised I had 1-3 or something like that. It didn't seem to matter whether I was surprised at the mountain hex or not. I also know of the trick to move into a hex with 2 enemy units adjacent to it when one is still hidden. I think I have also forced hidden entrenched/fortified units to attack by surprising me because it wears them down faster in that first hit, sometimes. I know it doesn't lose entrenchment this way, but I usually do this when I expect them to run on the next turn or when I only have 1 unit left to move and so whatever entrenchment the enemy lost would get back by next turn.

I'd like to know some things about game mechanics (in addition to my Spain & Turkey thread about surprise). For exammple, when an AF intercepts, does it use it's attack value or defense value? What about escorts? What about fighting carriers? Does the naval attack get used all the times? Do carriers use air attack or air defense? The manual is pretty helpful with formulae and all, but how does terrain defense bonus work exactly? From the formula it affects defender losses not attacker losses so the terms SD/TD/AD/ND for it, are a bit misleading. When a tank is in a mountain it has TD+4 and SD+2. So when it is attacked by a tank it gets -4*readiness in losses right? And -2*r when attacked by an army. The terrain bonus category depends on the attacker type not the defender type right? At least that's what my experiences/tests tell me. Also do these bonuses for resources depend on status? For example if a city or fort is at 50%, does it give half the bonuses? Finaly (for now), how does the AA bug work exactly? Do people play with no AA tech allowed (other than starting levels)? BTW, isn't the 1:5:30 bid system a bit high? I mean a 200 bid gives 6000 MPPs to USSR right? Or am I getting it wrong? Thanks in advance. EDIT: I meant to say USSR not USA, honest :-p [ June 29, 2005, 06:19 PM: Message edited by: komninosm ]

Thanks. I agree on everything. Only a bangled allied job could allow for this trick to ever happen, like too many ships lost, too many UK units lost in France, not enough homeland defense. The hard part is getting a hex near Manchester. London is pretty easy, even if you do sacrifice an air unit. Most times you can even get it back. I know how surprise works (ie subs) but I don't know the specifics. How big is the bonus? +2? Is it the same for land and sea? How about air? Does intercepting ever have a surprise bonus or only if a land unit steps near an unknown air unit is there surprise? PS: Shouldn't the surprise bonus be a percentage like 50% of defender attack value or something so that non-combatant units aren't affected?

I was trying to pull off the risky (gamey) strategy of sacrificing a few corps and maybe even an Air unit to get Turkey and Spain to join, but what I got was an enemy transport sinking my transport. It was a strenght 2 coprs that was surprised (FOW) by an enemy corps transport and sank. I thought transports had 0 combat ability. Is this intended or a bug?

I'd like a map pic too. On the RTS thing, on such scale, does anyone recall an ancient game for Amstrad called quadalcanal. It was probably the first RTS game ever, but time was so slow it was like turn based. You gave orders and then as time passed they were executed, but time passed so slowly (about 1 game hour every 6 real minutes) so you had to click the time-boost button all the time. Ah what a great game for its time.

If he can specify hexes by coordiantes and isn't restrained by distances from cities (and this sounds easy to do in my mind) pehaps he should add a list of all the English hexes to the triggers for war readiness increases and I think the trigger for Spain and Turkey Joining should be London taken and Axis units adjacent to Manchester. Units adjacent to London shouldn't be needed, but London should also be conquered not siezed. I got Turkey and Spain to join when UK surrendered in the same round, but it's good to know it can happen after that too. Usually I have UK beat before USSR is ready to join and I win, or I simply declare war on the USA to prolong the game and my enjoyment. If that would bring USSR in too, I'm either prepared for them or I simply invade Canada to force the USA to enter the war without a DoW. I think that by DoWs on Sweden and Vichy and not much else (only Greece and Norway and ofcourse Denmark and LC, later Iraq) increase USA a lot and leave USSR behind and USA starts increasing from Feb 1941, while USSR starts increasing from summer 1941. Also invasion of UK seems to increase USA readiness from turn 1 (of occupying any hexes adjacent to London or Manchester) while the USSR seems to wair a few turns or get lower increases. So I often do get the chance to beat up on the Americans with no USSR yet in the fight. EDIT: Would it be also possible to launch a surprise invasion with corps and simply occupy the 3 importan hexes to force Spain and Turkey to join and then disband those units to stop increasing readiness? You could even use Airfleets and Bombers to cover up some hexes if your original forces aren't enough or can't accomplish it in 1 turn. For example 1 corps may get destroyed before it lands or the landings available don't allow it to move to 1 of the important hexes but it does make it grey-German, so you move in the Air Force. I think Spain and Turkey joining is important enough to waste an AF or Bomber and one turn's readiness increases. Am I right? BTW getting Turkey as ally doesn't increase USSR readiness in later turns does it? (I mean kinda like attacking it or the Baltics does.) [ June 27, 2005, 06:32 AM: Message edited by: komninosm ]

Not to mention the 1 unit in hex adjacent to Manchester and 2 units in hexes adjacent to London to trigger Spain and Turkey alliance with Axis. That one had me perplexed for quite a while until Terif explained it to me.

I tested it and you were absolutely right. Was kinda weird though, I had only 2 corps in UK so I landed an airfleet LOL. It's also kinda weird how you can land in the UK and take Edinborough and Scapa and not cause an increase in readiness for the Allies. You can even take Manchester if you only leave a unit inside the city and none in the surrounding hexes. Wouldn't it be better to simply count turns that enemy forces were in English ground and start increasing USA readiness after turn 2 and USSR after turn 4 or something like that. And shouldn't near surrender mean something more than 3 units in some hexes, but be relevant to the army strengths of Axis and Allies on the Island or something like that? Then it wouldn't be too bad if Axis minors were allowed to join after Spain anyway. Then again if the UK is conquered and Axis has the Balkans and Spain and Turkey the game is over already.

Thanks for the info. So Vichy plays no role at all? Back to conquering it I guess. So I have to have 2 units near London, is that 1 hex or 2, or can it be inside London? Do I have to have London conquered or simply sieged? Does Scapa flow or Edinborough matter at all? I knew about Greece and Yugoslavia, but not about Russia. It didn't affect my tests though since it never joined so early. PS: I'm pretty sure I've had Turkey join without any of Hungary or Romania, but maybe I don't remember to good. EDIT: BTW why do axis minors not join after Spain does? Balancing or history/realism?

Or a Hitler unit. If you kill it the Germans don't make a bunch of stupid mistakes and war efficiency increases as well as moral. Seriously though I agree with the previous people that it's a bad idea.

Hmm, on second thought I think Vichy France may be the cause. In my first try I didn't attack it before Spain and Turkey joined I think, but I don't have any saves to check. In my second try I looked at the saves and it was under my control before I attacked the UK.

I've been trying to get them to join Axis with mixed results. I've found out that Turkey doesn't need you to have Romania, Hungary and Bulgaria allied, simply not enemies and within timeframe of joining. My first try was a normal landing of big land forces near London, proceeding to lay siege to the new capital and taking it in a couple of turns. Spain and Turkey both joined, but it was too soon for Romania and the rest to join, so they never did. The problem I got was that when I once had UK totally devastated, fleet sunk, airforce killed, army destroyed and I landed only a couple of corps for fun, Spain and Turkey wouldn't join. I took the Scapa port and Edinborough but I stayed 2 hexes away from London and Manchester so as not to increase USA and USSR war readiness. But then I couldn't get Spain or Turkey to join no matter what I tried. I tried taking Manchester first and it didn't increase any war readiness if I only put a unit in the city and nothing in surrounding hexes (I had a lot of airfleets and long range 2), but I didn't get Spain when I approached London (or take it). I tried taking London first and the surrounding the empty Manchester and wating a few turns, even after USA and USSR join, but no dice. My question is how is the chance to join Axis calculated for Spain and Turkey?

I too would have prefered an accumulative model for tech chances. Perhaps starting with 5% and acruing 1% more each turn until a breakthrough (for each chit) or something like that.