it's Les

No Kuni, I just think some exhibit an unusual level of zeal in the posting of quotes made by others often weeks or months past. I am flattered you would actually go to that level of effort over anything I have said in the past. Not sure it's a wise use of your time considering what some seem to think of what I have said of course As for the 100% point, hmm sometimes when you fix what isn't broke, you only end up breaking it eh SC had some areas for improvement, but I personally think HC could just as easily released a SC1 take 2 just as easily as completely re inventing the game. There were some design aspects that were vexatious. Not sure if it was possible of course though, HC is after all the one that actually made the game (not me). All this time, and the only parts of the game that bug me, are the no stacking, and subs that are worthless, as well as the permanent vacation in Ireland for anyone that goes there But I am sure SC2 is going to be a grand ride.

You need a better hobby Kuni, you missed a lot of posts in between those eh. What makes me wonder though, is none of those quotes are contradictory. So what is your point A. its all been said already (stuff concerning SC2). B. we will just have to wait (even if it won't be nearly as long as the wait for a lot of other games). C. I expect to see SC2 long before the other above mentioned games (which are much better examples of what a long wait looks like is all). Although, recent interactions out in General Discussions, leads me to believe, that some of those guys are probably not worth the time. And as such, my concern over what people think of my posts, is dropping in worth to me like a stone in water. But that's neither here nor there. I am learning, that basing my forum activities off of wargaming exclusively, is probably ill advised. To many negative experiences. Looking to revamp my entire forum look over at my place to better reflect that wargames and wargaming is just a portion of my life, and not the focus of it.

Me thinks you are to used to seeing what you want to see, and not quite what I said Kuni I have said that almost all that can be said of the game in question has pretty much been said. As such, most of our thread traffic in here has more in common with a dog chasing it's tail. Now, I thought it was kind of humourous the way Duro put it. The part about the wait that is. I don't expect another decent wargame to grace my life before SC2 arrives, regardless of what part of 2005 it chooses to appear in. Combat Leader, the game a lot of guys have wanted. Most people with any connection to it though know, statements to the effect it will be out in 2005 or 2006, will get the same response as you get with "the cheques in the mail". Computer World in Flames, a good idea I am not so sure. But it is likely not material. I don't expect it to materialise until they get more realistic in their expectations. Computer A World at War, well they are not even pretending to claim it will be out any time soon. 3 games a lot of people I have known to have jumped up and down over when the first announced it might appear. The big difference with SC2, is I actually expect HC to succeed in doing what he has set out to do.

Hmm if you want contrast, head over to Matrix Games, and check in on how long they have been waiting for Combat Leader Then look in on how long it will be before Computer World in Flames is going to take. Then look in on how long it will be before Computer A World at War will be (that's the board game by Bruce, not Gary's game of same name). We all expect SC2 to be here sometime first half of 2005. That will be first half of 2005 for the entire planet. Doesn't matter where you live, everyone will be getting it at same time. That is assuming you are prepared to order if direct from Battlefront via online order. Otherwise, yeah, likely be sometime in 2007 when you see a stray copy on a shelf in Australia I suppose

I have to say, reading your post Retributar, I was a bit shocked. That crap might be fine out in the General Discussions zone, where no one really seems to care if someone's opinion gets slam dunked like what you just did. But it's a bit of a foul if you ask me, to go into a game's specific forum, and talk like that. I am like Shaka on this one, I can talk the talk, without the need to smash the topic over the head with my extensive libary. And I don't mind saying, my library likely exceeds most. Statistics have a place, and that place is usually not in light conversation. As it goes, I own ALL of Dunnigans wargaming related books. It's why I can look at a wargame and know if it's on the mark or off the mark with a design feature. I really think you should reconsider your remark.

You might need to clarify further. Do you mean period and regional spellings? I mean, the ports have in most cases been there for centuries eh I don't recall HC being funny and putting ports etc in places where there weren't to see if anyone was looking hehe.

No Messina can be explained like this. In placing cities/ports, its like a race, and there is only first place. Sorry no second place options allowed at this scale.

Oh and remember, playing you vs you is one of the best options you can hope for You will enjoy the game a lot, but reading the Strategy Guide will keep you from looking like a punching bag hehe. And remember, it's not about the wing nuts here, it's about the game

The key to making SC retain a healthy shelf life, is breaking free from dependence on playing it solo against the AI. Sure playing against others online is cool, but it is also not nearly as fast as playing hotseat against yourself. Because, then your strategies have to become near perfection. And let's face it, who else is capable of being the hardest opponent better than yourself? You know al your best moves after all (not to mention how you can be an insufferable cheat against yourself ). SC2 for me will be essentially some design glitches cleaned up, a spiffy editor that will open considerable leg room, and everything else is just cream.

Axis and Allies was adequate for a multiplayer online amusement if you kept the AI out of the game. The game was worse than useless against the AI though. It's hardly a complicated game, and it was the game they invented so we could use the term beer and pretzels wargame. Only an idiot will buy Axis and Allies RTS, so if you actually waste your money on it, no sympathy from me eh. If you thought SC was too easy, you ain't improving your situation with Axis and Allies. You could always download Third Reich PC for laughs though

It's out of my skill area to know how that would be coded Sea Monkey, but I do agree with your post.

I have been told this game will run on machines most of us would call doorstops. I don't think you are at risk of not being able to run SC2 for all I have been told.

This thread should be locked. No I am not siding with Rambo. The fact is the forums have been much improved since politics was told to stay in Politics. If you care to look, Rambo speaks his mind in there, and you should do so as well. Keep the wargaming sections wargaming please.

Sure I want World in Flames on a computer. Have you ever tried finding a long term use table for the board game? I am skeptical though, that the team involved will be able to make it happen if they spend to much time making it perfect according to every single suggestion they are getting. Given a choice, I would be inclined to suggest they shamelessly emulate WiF, not actually call it WiF, and release a game that actually is not constricted by being forced to be a clone of the board game. Sure I am depressed that SC wasn't a total copy of Advanced Third Reich But I have TR PC. It's not even close to as easy to play as SC. Sometimes a literal copy of a board game is not a bright idea. Some want ASL made into a computer game. I would rather play Steel Panthers instead. The only way I want ASL to appear on my computer, is with VASL.

Politics aside, when the war is waged analytically as it is in a wargame, where we get to make arbitrary decisions without fear of the human cost (because it's just a game), the situation gets very difficult when the USSR is knocked out. But, as we all know, because we have all read the books, the Germans fought a brutal struggle on the eastern front in reality. It wasn't a wargame at the time. At the risk of making light of the horrible losses experienced by the allies NOT fighting on the eastern front, the hard to ignore fact, was the USSR was engaged by a majority of the might of the German war machine, it survived, and then went on to pummel into a bloody pulp that same majority of the German war machine. But, just as it is folly to say could the war have been won with or without this or that nation, it is folly to think the USSR could have gone it alone against the German war machine. Whether anyone likes it or not, the WW2 axis powers were defeated by a team effort ..... on every front. But the crucial games were played on the eastern front all the same. If we had lost that front, I do think the cold war would have been replaced by something a lot more horrible. Regardless of your politics, on your nation's day of remembering the dead, remember ALL of the wars dead. Even if some of the men fought on sides that might not have always been entirely team oriented players. Because every armies privates were often just poor blokes who didn't want to be there.

Soooooo we all want SC2 of course. There, now that I have said the obvious, what 2nd place grand stratetgy game are you looking to get after SC2? Me, I am unsure, it's an on again off again thing with me, but I am hoping Gary's game will be pleasing. I just saw some screenies of HoI2, and some how the word "milk" leaps to mind I actually have a few global grand strategy board games tugging at my sleeve looking for attention. 2004 saw a few really good ones come into circulation.

Micromanagement, nothing is more potentially deadly to a wargame. Micromanagment is rarely understood by the AI if several years of observations is any indication. The more you expect the AI to do, the less likely whatever it does will make any sense. Then the human element. Most people expect to be paid for doing anything that looks like work. A game should be so relaxing it is considered fun above all else. I have a few games that are clearly not easy based solely on the complexity level of the turn to turn detail load required. It's a rare game, where the detail load simply won't matter to the gamer. Producing a great game that is also VERY easy to run, is a great deal more likely to make your name (the designer of said game) a household name to the relevant gaming community.

We see it all the time, company A gets there first and everyone else can just suck on it eh. Everyone will just end up free advertising by being "compared to SC". How many times have you seen games held up to the light and being compared to the game that got it right first. I think SC is the first computer grand strategy game that scored the right balance of ease of use, ease of play, ability to be modified, and certainly aced price tag. If asked what I felt was wrong with the game, all I can think of is subs are not worth having and Ireland is a place of no return. Not bad, when you consider the long list of rants you can often field for numerous other wargames out there past and present. SC2 promises to simply raise the bar so damn friggin high for competition it will likely dominate the field for the next several years while the computer gaming industry tries to re invent a wheel suitable enough for anyone to actually care about. Right now, the only way to beat SC, if you ask me, is to provide an AI for a game that can actually make me feel hopelessly outclassed. Until then, no graphical element will mean anything to me.

The only real option I want from SC2 is the ability to say "sorry I don't need your idea of a grand strategy wargame, I have SC2 already". There are limits to how many flavours of orange any one person needs. Some games are not apples vs oranges arguments. Some arguments are one brand of orange vs another brand of orange. Eventually wargame makers will get this notion through their heads, or they will suffer the same fate all our glutted hobbies teach those that think you can produce an infinite variety of versions of the same damn thing. I have seen the comic book glut kill off their own market. I have seen the trading card game glut, where everyone and their aunt had their idea on the shelf. And I have seen store after store fold after card companies collapsed under the weight of too much of too little variety. I am seeing the paper and pencil RPG glut, and its time will shortly arrive. I can hardly wait for the RTS glut to kill off a lot of the stupid fool companies that think you can do the same thing forever and get away with it. I look forward to HC gaining dominance in the realm of global grand strategy. He's earned it.

But it certainly won't be soon enough for any of us

It's important to remember, Stalin and Hitler were in charge. And they either had people afraid of him, or in Hitler's case, his early war victories gave him false credibility. But these two men excelled at being brutal politicians. As brilliant generals, nope, they likely couldn't hold their own against even a bland level novice wargamer. Right place right time has many times made a person seem like they were more than they really were.

Just opinion. Some days I am right some days I am wrong, and never does it keep me up late at night worrying over it

I stopped playing Third reich when they came out with Advanced Third Reich, but really, it was just Third Reich with some improvements. Some games come out, and version 2 or 3 or whatever is really just the first version with some glitches ironed out. Some games come out, and the people that made the next version thought to be needlessly cute and buggered up an otherwise good game. To my thinking, SC2 is currently in the middle but closer to the original than directly in the center. All I think I have lost out on, is a hex grid. But I think a lot of the weaker areas of original SC will be gone. A good example of a good idea gone really bad. might be Combat Leader (believe it or not). It isn't here, and people saying "it will be out when it's done" gets less and less easy to have faith in as the years pass by. What do I think was the single biggest mistake of Combat Leader? It I think has tried to be TOOOOO great. Matrix Games got off the ground with their reborn Steel Panthers, but lets face it, you don't get rich giving out a free game. Especially when you get to foot the bill for the bandwidth used up in all those downloads. It's a pity they didn't just get out a game "as good as" Steel Panthers, but coded for Windows and solely owned by them alone. They might today be already finished both an Eastern Front starting module and maybe a starting module for modern, and be well into marketing add on Massive Campaign secondary sales. I have largely moved on where Combat Leader is concerned. I have the full range of Steel Panthers World at War and all 4 Mega Campaigns. They run fine. When SP Camo releases their Windows revamped editions of SPWW2 and SPMBT, mostly SPMBT their modern offering, I think it will doom any real future for Combat Leader for producing a modern module. I think once Hubert gets SC2 out the door, it will be time for him to branch out into other whimsical variations of usage of his basic software. I hope he doesn't waste time on graphics though. I don't want anything in 3d real time that's for damn sure. But I think his software is over all solid well designed and easy to use. Easy to use, probably the single biggest perk to get right if you ask me. I would buy an SC3 in a heart beat likely for say post WW2 battles. I think he could do a great job with a decently designed Korea, or battles in the Middle East. Yes I know, there will be an editor in SC2. But editors have their limits. If SC2 doesn't make it till next summer or even next fall, I will get over it. But that's because HC did such a damned fine job with SC really. In spite of some of the design boo boos and misteps, it is frankly one of the best wargames for computer I have ever had the pleasure to play. SC is one of the VERY few wargames I keep handy on a cd, so that if I go away from home I know I can load it up where I am at and enjoy it when I have the time (and trust me, being stuck at parents while visiting in Ottawa, it's the only thing keeping me sane some days hehe).

Stalin ousted? Yeah right, he killed anyone that even lived next to a person that knew a guy that ate lunch with a friend of a buddy that thought like that. If Moscow had fallen, he would have just killed off those responsible for the failure, and then moved the capital to a further location.

Due to a glaring error in arrangment, I declare myself THE only "A ranked SC2 player" due to the complete lack of interest in anyone else claiming to be an "A" ranked opponent