John1966

Having returned to the game after a while, I'm surprised how hard it is to take guns with any form area fire. Sure it used to be easier. Always used to bring some arty on them (not even particularly heavy stuff) to take them out. They seem bomb-proof these days. Did this happen in a patch at some point? I hammered one with two heavy medium length missions from a 105mm recently and it was still firing come the end of them. Didn't even appear the crew were harmed. Fair enough if it's realistic (is t?), but I'm sure it used to be easier.

I suppose the problem with that is you don't know what the designer may or may not have done. So you get what appear to be inconsistencies in AI behaviour. Hence my surprise at this one. TBH, I've never quite understood why it's such a popular trick. People often complain that casualties are unrealistically high and that's a good way of keeping them high. I'd rather, if the enemy has been reduced to the point that you'd expect them to surrender, that they do. (But having said all that, I'd still be surprised to see two perfectly good Tigers surrendering in RL - they were still more than capable of winning the battle)

Well I know it means they won't fire. I've seen them intermittently greyed out when the gunner says "loading". But had one the other day where the MA and MGs were greyed out. Both had a green splodge under the spanners. Both had ammo. And despite crew casualties, the gunner was OK. Not seen that before. Is it telling me the gunner can't load it on his own? What about the MG?

Obviously that would appear to be the case. I was responding to the suggestion that morale was the issue. Still strange though. My experience of AI surrenders is they don't when they still have tanks. I've even had to go an finish off immobilised tanks that weren't firing (presumably with the MA out) to force a surrender. And, as I say in the OP, they took no casualties in the preceding turn. Not a shot was fired. Some of my arty landed on my pixeltruppen (*sigh*) but other than that, nothing happened. There was no contact. I just moved some people about a bit. Not suggesting it's a bug or anything, just an unusual experience.

Thing is, every German unit on the battlefield at this point would have had good morale. The infantry on the final objective hadn't even been fired at (and no, I hadn't dropped arty on them) and the same goes for the two Tiger crews. The Panzer IV crew might have been a bit dodgy in their immobilized tank but no-one had actually fired on them. Any German whose morale would have been low had been eliminated.

Yep. That reminds of one in a campaign where I didn't get the win because there were literally two soldiers (both leaders from different HQs) in the objective zone. They were both next to my tanks taking their time lining up their shots and I only got 1 minute of extra time.

Interesting because all I'd got was a contact objective and one occupy objective. The Tigers were sitting on top of one objective and I hadn't reached the third. The funny thing was that, assuming I got the Tigers (big assumption), I'd actually have been hard pressed for time to get the final objective.

Sure I've got the end game screen with the opposition having taken 80+% casualties before surrendering. As I say, it seems the surrender often seems to be triggered when you get their final tank (if they have tanks in the game).

Well there was infantry left at the final objective as I'd not even got there. Several MG crews, HQs and scout teams I think. What's more, there was also a Panzer IV I didn't know about as it was immobilized (I assume due to the wet conditions) out of anyone's LOS. Just never seen the AI surrender with any armour left. Let alone two Tigers and a Panzer IV (plus a couple of MG platoons by the look of it).

Well I was all lined up for the final strike on the German Tigers. Been getting everyone in position for over 10 minutes. The plan was to wait for an arty strike (because you never know) and then hit the two Tigers from all sides with at least ten Churchills (patiently lined up to break cover at the same time). PIAT teams were not far from the hedgerow that was right next to them and I had infantry available for a close assault. Then after a fairly innocuous turn in which little happened except for some arty landing on my pixeltruppen, the Germans surrender! From my experience I don't think I've ever seen an AI surrender when it's still got armour left, especially if they're Tigers. I feel slightly cheated...

Quite. There's all sorts of oddities I just accept as part of the game after all this time. (My scouts got shot up by a Tiger in the open they couldn't see last night. I've stopped moaning about that sort of thing )

Yeah, never quite understood that. How come HE is still there when the smoke is exhausted but the smoke disappears when the HE is used up?

Well they take an awfully long time to arrive and aren't too accurate when they do, but they make a glorious bang.

Actually, now I think about it, I was aware they were in RT but I haven't got that one yet. But Warts 'n' all is talking about a Market Garden scenario.

Didn't know CM could do flames yet. So that'll be the original then.

That's true (which often causes confusion) but I thought it was a dedicated AT team. Perhaps not though. Didn't have the AT icon. But I find the icons a bit inconsistent. No way to check now.

I remember reading in Anthony Beevor's Arnhem about a para hailed as a hero by his comrades for going out under fire to the drop canisters looking for tea. Found some too. Got a bollocking from his officers though.

That is possible but I'd thought they were out of grenade range. I suppose it's possible that in the chaos (and it was chaos) of the engagement with the KT they got closer than I thought. Mind you, interesting that they'd then opt to use grenades rather than their mighty PIAT.

Well it contained a spoiler (there's a massive attack 20 minutes from the end) so I didn't want to say. But if you really need to know... *SPOILERS* Borderlands

That is correct but the game is a bit funky on this. I had at least a whole para platoon trying to get a King Tiger. A lot of grenades were thrown. There were no hit texts but eventually the crew bailed and the tank was listed as "knocked out". So obviously the grenades took it out. But, puzzlingly, at game end it was a PIAT team who were credited with the kill. They were behind it so that was reasonable but why didn't I get a hit/penetration text? Should have done if it was the PIAT and I definitely didn't (because knocking out a King Tiger with infantry requires about 30 re-watches).

I think it only ever says "denied" if the FO team leader has bought it.

Last night I was playing an MG scenario as the Brits (inevitably) defending (I won't name it). It was the usual thing. Taking on tanks with infantry and running out of ammo against repeated German onslaughts. But I thought I had it in the bag with about 20 minutes to go. Why haven't the Germans surrendered though? There can't be more reinforcements, can there? Yes, there could. Massive attack right down the middle and one to the right. As luck would have it I'd called in a long call time arty strike on the right "just in case" and the Germans walked right into it. But my middle was completely exposed. The previous attacks had drawn my paras to the flanks where they were depleted and low on ammo. The reserve had been committed elsewhere. There was no-one to plug the huge gap. I scrabbled around looking for anyone who could cover. The gap was largely open until it crossed a road at the foot of the hill the Germans were rushing down. Once they crossed that they were into the woods and there'd be little I could do to get them out. I pulled in mortar teams who'd run out of shells, HQs, AT teams, ATG crews out of HE, dismounted jeep drivers, anyone with bullets who could fire at the German flanks. Then I looked at my rear. There was the battalion HQ and a nearby Bren carrier. Major Cousens boarded the carrier with his team and started the journey round the woods to the road at the bottom of the hill. It would take three minutes to get there. The guys who were firing on the attack were doing a good job but it wasn't quite enough. The lead Germans were reaching the road. Then the Queen of the Battlefield roared into view at full speed. The gunner spraying the Germans crossing the road. As it continued, the Major and his HQ stood up in the still fast moving carrier, firing their Stens into the wheat field the other side of the road. There were red crosses everywhere. When I hit the end of turn, the Germans surrendered. We made tea. Nothing will make the Germans surrender quicker that a British major with a Sten riding the Queen of the Battlefield at high speed. I felt thoroughly British. Wish I took a screenshot.

It helps when the radio chatter is in English because then I know what's going on. I was wondering if anyone had ever posted the non-English translations of "fire for effect" etc. I've worked out German for "fire" but that's only because it's in all of them.

I often get this. No idea what is going on. I assume it's because the call time isn't actually a guarantee, just a best guess.

Strangely, IIRC, in ASL (or at least classic SL), you had to be inside a building or woods to use the infantry "defensive fire method" (or whatever it was called) on an AFV. Think you could only get an immobilisation with it too.