GreenAsJade
-
Posts
4,877 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Posts posted by GreenAsJade
-
-
They do tend to be a bit skiddish, and eager to duck down at the slightest feeling of threat. When they do it on their own there is nothing one can do untill the next turn but to order him to open again. The important thing is that you are now remembering to making sure they are open when you can. When they do it on their own it is no fault of your own, and are at the mercy of the AI.
And... we may thank the AI for it! Who knows whether the TC would have been decapitated if he hadn't ducked.
A strange thing happened the same turn: the M10 over by Tame was in close proximity to an HE burst, but didn't button. Just goes to show there must be a bunch of factors that affect this.
I think that the routes that Bil is taking are pretty logical. In fact, I'm surprised that he pulled a tank off Hill 130 while coming up the left ... that kind of lulled me into thinking he _wasn't_ going to go the far left path, because it was that incredible overwatch that made me worry about there before. Not much use to me now though: I did leave that path open kind of negligently, so now I have to scramble....
GaJ
-
Movie 47, 0:24-0:23
So ... all the signs are that Bil is sneaking far around the left.
As you can see, I have a sound contact behind Hill 153 - someone has snuck all the way around there without being spotted. Having achieved that, there's nothing that stops them going all the way to SMI along that side of the ridge! I'm going to have to hasten my centre fall back to counter this possibility.
Bil also popped a unit from the centre right over the road. Thankfully, I think that this guy got nailed before he can have seen too much, and thankfully it is coming safely after I've started falling back, so the chance of the middle there becoming a horrid kill zone has been averted. My silly M10 in the middle buttoned up on his way over to the centre ... maybe in response to this firefight. These guys can be a bit of a trap: without a hatch, it's not so obvious if they are open or not!
Bil continues to push up through Tame, emptying crates of ammo into each house as he comes. I smoked his overwatcing PzIVhs this turn, and will see if I can shoot and scoot the AAHT to some effect while they are blocked.
GaJ
-
... the camouflaged bicycle is pretty funny, really. I'm not sure if it really was camouflaged, or if someone just left it there so long it grew moss
-
Propellor driven snowmobile! Will we see this in CMx2?
-
On the left, Bil appears to still be going very slow. I'm finding this hard to believe, and have to think that he's sneaking around somewhere, but the avenues of approach are so wide, I can't cover it all with eyes.
My Hill 153 outpost is hearing armour way out to the left, but not giving me any real clue where the push will come from
I'm continuing to pull back my centre left field, without getting them all exhausted. If Bil pushes into here soon, they will have to make a stand. If not, I will look to set up a fresh ambush on the way to SMI.
GaJ
-
Movie 46, 0:25-0:24
Sorry for the brief intermission, I was away for the weekend.
If you recall, the scene was set for a bazooka ambush of a PzIVh in the centre.
Everything went to plan:
- The tank unbuttoned, I guess to get a look around
- My HQ unit fired on it, buttoning it up again
- Bil's infantry screen raced towards my hiding bazookas, and came under fire from my HQ unit;
- the bazookas popped their heads up from hiding:
Soooo exciting...
But the bazookas did not spot the tank.
Instead....
Kablam... ex baooka bearer.
Ah well.
-
Yeah, but what about a completely different defence plan? How about "no infantry, just Stuarts and Sherms ... stick together in one fist-group and find attackers to pick on"?
-
GreenAsJade,
Let me see if I have this right. You site your PB, but when you hit the Go button to start the game, the PB has somehow partially sunk into the ground, wrecking your carefully surveyed sight lines? If so, that strikes me as being a Grade One, must fix now bug!
Or maybe a fact of life to take into account?
It certainly happens, and BFC know about it, but I think a combination of "very hard to fix" and "not really that critical" applies at the moment.
I'm all but convinced there are problems with spotting vs ATGs. If you've got multiple concrete PBs, for the sake or argument, then why oh why wouldn't your combat engineers have provided primary and alternate firing positions for your TDs, both towed and SP? Since entrenchments seem not to work, then how about some provision to crater the area, so as to provide usable defensive positions? Back in the CMBN Demo, this was the only way I could find in one of the scenarios to keep my ATGs alive long enough to shoot a target.
This is partially a QB problem. In a scenario, the designer designs these things in,
to the best of their ability. Defending on a QB doesn't offer that possibility.
Obviously, emplaceable guns would help.
A big unknown to me is the location and extent of your setup area.
I'll dig up a picture in due course.
Would love to see how much you could've potentially covered via mines, wire and other annoyances.
This has been mentioned from time to time. The setup zone allowed for it.
What did not allow for it is the points involved. Grab hold of the map from Bil (actually, maybe I have a copy I can share, also), and see for yourself how many mines you'd have to buy to have a reasonable chance of Bil bumping into any of them across the wide open approach path choices he has. Then ask yourself whether you wanted any tanks at all...
GaJ
-
I think you guys are looking at it the wrong way.
Sure, it's not so much fun to be beaten: even the perfect game being showcased will showcase the loser's experience, and that will be of being beaten. The solution to this is not having a perfect game to showcase, it's setting up a game where the chances of one side or the other losing significantly are low.
While I'm sure a more skilled person would have done better than me in this defence, I somehow doubt that anyone would argue that the chances of a tight battle on this map were high.
That doesn't mean it isn't fun: this battle has been a challenge, and fun to play, for me. Of course I've bitched and moaned when things haven't gone my way - who doesn't do that?
GaJ
-
Something that I've learned is that every now and then during the AAR process you're going get a post that really dampens the experience for a while. It's quite an interesting challenge to conduct a battle in public with someone clearly more skilled than you are: a genuine test of mettle, because the show must go on...
GaJ
-
"And as someone pointed out, it's possible that the LOS that I had when I placed the bunker was better than it has eventually turned out to be"
I know someone said this but how can this be? This is a game that tracks every bullet.
Because bunkers on a slope subsise into the ground after you place them, in the time between pressing "go" on the setup and seeing where they end up in the first actual turn. I forgot about that when I was placing mine.
This doesn't explain why the bunker couldn't see the infantry guy that strolled across it's line of sight, but it does explain why the line of sight was more limited than I thought it was going to be ... maybe patchiness of the LOS helped that inf guy...
GaJ
-
I think it's important to acknowledge that much of what appears frustrating to me can just as easily be due to skill on Bill's part as due to game limitations. Personally, I'm not blaming the game that much.
I obviously don't know if Bil is suffering the same frustrations - though by the sound of the dialog here perhaps not. But on the other hand, his plans are not likely to be dependent on long range spotting of infantry, as mine were. The long range spotting he got on the ATG was an unexpected bonus for him - I don't see how we can put it down to "skill" that the ATGs were spotted - this one is maybe the single most frustrating "is that right?" kind of thing.
However, moving to avoid infantry being spotted might be something that Bil is very good at, and something the terrain helped him with.
And as someone pointed out, it's possible that the LOS that I had when I placed the bunker was better than it has eventually turned out to be (in fact this explains a bit of a WTF that I had, when I was looking at how much of Hill 126 the bunker can see: I could have sworn it was more.).
Similarly, my tanks were always moving when they were spotted, wheras Bil had the luxury of being able to put his in overwatch and wait. You could conclude that I should perhaps not have been moving mine around so much eh? This is a tough one though: numerous times when I moved them, mortar rounds fell right where they were the moment before. Having had my ATGs spotted sitting still and hiding, I couldn't really afford to hope that my stationary M10s would not get spotted in any keyhole that I placed them in ... before I spotted the spotter - wheras Bil could afford to have his beasts continuously in my sight, because there was nothing I could do about them. That's not a game limitation, its a fact of who has what, and how the land is laid out.
In summary, if I had to say what are the game frustrations:
- lack of ATG emplacement and concealment
- change of bunker LOS, and apparent lack of spotting and firepower
And what are game circumstances (Bil's force mix, skill, the lay of the land...)
- Tank spotting
- Inf spotting
At least, this is how I see it right now.
GaJ
-
About the 1070m LOS from the bunker to the Elefant: I notice that the bunker team has NO BINO'S!? Trying to spot men in tall grass almost 1,100m away can be a bit difficult. Binoculars may've been helpful.
Ken
FWIW, I had an HQ unit in the bunker as well, with binos, and they didn't spot either.
GaJ
-
I dunno - what's the big deal about a bunker crew surviving an AP round popping in through the firing slit?
Sure, if you happen to be in the path then it's game over, but it's not like it's exploding in a ball of fire is it? What exactly _does_ happen when an AP round hits a concrete back wall?
-
Meanwhile, I have a tale of woe for my Baldrick ATG plan.
If you recall, I packed up and moved an ATG away, after it opened fire unsuccessfully on the Elefant on the Left Tit. That ATG was supposed to set up a short distance away from its original location, out of view of the Tits and watching the approach to Tame.
Unfortunately, it failed to deploy. I think that this is a bug: I have reported it to BFC. Upon arrival at it's new location, instead of deploying, the crew spun it around and around. This is the result....
Sigh. Imagine if it had been deployed and facing in the correct direction (which in theory should have been 3 minutes after it arrived here, about 5 minutes ago). I guess you're not supposed to _move_ ATGs after they are set up!
On the left hand side, finally Bil's Spur Barrage arrived, right where my guys were a few turns ago.
Yay that I pulled back from there.
Strangely, nothing more fell on Hill 153. Bil's artillery planning is certainly hard to read, I'll give him that.
If it weren't for the artillery on Hill 153 last turn, it would seem like an unambiguous signal that forces are about to start pouring around the left end of The Spur. As it is, I'm not so sure. I have a tank sound way out to the left, that looks more like overwatch of Hill 153 than a Spur attack. Fortunately, it doesn't matter: I'm continuing to pull back, with the goal of having a modest solid force to face whatever comes, from whatever direction, without being skewered in a kill zone.
Lastly, JK asked for some bunker photos....
In the first, the main thing I want to point out is that where the Elefant is right now is one of the places that Bil's whole right flank force passed - HTs and infantry - without this bunker spotting them.
GaJ
-
So... here is the situation coming into the next turn:
... another inf screen unit is heading straight for the bazooka team, just on the very border of the HQ unit LOS. I have set a covered armour arc on the bazooka guys, centred on the tank, and the HQ unit has stopped hiding and is facing the inf screen guys.
Should be interesting...
-
The next thing that is supposed to happen is that the bazookas take out the tank...
... but alas that tank is about 2m short of the bazooka team LOS:
How does Bil _do that_ ?!?
-
Movie 45, 0:26-0:25
First, let me report an action that almost went to plan.
If you recall, I had one remaining defensive post in the centre right:
It consists of an infantry squad to take out Bil's infantry screen, an HQ supervising, and a bazooka waiting to take down the tank that deals out reprisals to the infantry squad.
The inf squad had not actually spotted Bil's infantry screen at the end of last turn, so I ordered area fire. It was remarkably effective. This death was spotted by the HQ, not by the area firing guys...
So, as predicted, Bil's inf screen was taken out and a tank responded by dealing death to my inf squad...
-
Um, that'd be me: I sited it. I thought it was quite a good place, at the outset. So did the rest of you peanuts, if I recall correctly. No-one was saying "what a dumb plan, what dumb siting", it looked like it had legs.
It is fair to say that it didn't have legs in the end though: that has now been proved, and my original plan defense comprehensively failed.
The defense rested on the premise that I could set up bunkers that would deny infantry access to the major approach routes, and that these would force armour into view that could be counter-attacked by M10s or taken out by sympathetically located ATGs.
It completely failed because
1) The ATGs were spotted before they opened fire
2) I lost the M10s before they scored hits
3) The bunkers failed to spot the infantry crossing their path
Now we're into rear guard action...
GaJ
-
Actually, I checked to see if the shells stopped inside the bunker, and they did... they did not penetrate the rear wall.
It is a concrete bunker: there is a screenie of it some time back, because it is the one that the first M10 was next to when it died.
I wouldn't say I caught a real break, because the bunker has been basically useless. Not being able to spot the infantry in it's field of fire does tend to hamper its effectiveness...
GaJ
-
5 shots, one firing slot penetration, 3 front face hits and one miss.
The Elefant is pretty much direct face on to the bunker, about 800m (I didn't measure, just from memory).
-
Movie 44, 0:27-0:26
This turn the spotting on The Spur failed to eventuate in a full barrage - maybe one or two spotting rounds fell again. It feels like earlier - a barrage being held off deliberately for timing reasons perhaps.
But interestingly, artillery also started falling this turn on Hill 153.
This confirms my suspicions that I'm suffering from an undetected sneak attack around the left flank. There are no targets on Hill 153 that Bil can have seen (as far as I can see!), so either he has more artillery than he knows what to do with, and is just dusting this VL off, or he has an attack not far away. My guys are still working their way back from the left of The Spur to Hill 153 to try to take a look there.
Meanwhile, in the middle, I am gradually pulling back to form a defensive position that will respond to either event (an attack from The Spur or Hill 153). An attack from both these directions would catch me in an awful kill zone, but it seems that Bil doesn't have that many forces to do this with - I think he needs to be chosing one or the other ... fingers crossed about that. I will get away as fast as I can from The Spur to lessen this risk.
(As I type this, I realise that he could also come over the centre road, for another direction of attack on this left centre valley .... all the more reason to get out of there quick!)
Speaking of the centre:
Bil's infantry screen has appeared again, heading straight for my one remaining bazooka and his cover. The central HQ unit spotted them this turn, and obeyed their covered arc, didn't open fir.
The unit on the left will open fire (area fire) on these guys to try to disuade them from continuing onwards, hoping that they will call up their tank buddy to support them...
(Oh yeah - much earlier in the AAR I tried Movie Mode, and it didn't look workable on my machine. I tried it again just now, after reading other comments about it, and actually it isn't too bad).
On the right, the Elefant got a shot into the firing slot of the useless bunker. It only took out one guy ... I guess it was AP. No sign of the other infantry that are definitely in Tame somewhere...
GaJ
-
Begone, you big bangers, back to the Peng Thread where you belong...
(I should have another AAR update soon).
-
Fixed that for ya.
Michael
Speak for yourself, buddy ....
GaJ
ALLIED : Gustav Line BETA AAR Round Two - Eye of the Elefant
in Combat Mission Fortress Italy
Posted
Movie 48, 0:23-0:22
Further confirmation that Bill is conducting a left flank press, probably aiming all the way for SMI...
A scouting group bumped into my HMG on the reverse slope of Hill 153. In addition, I have sound contacts of vehicles moving on the far far left.
At the same time, a tank sound has shown up back on Hill 130. That's curious: I was pretty certain the Brummbar that was there had moved over to the centre ... maybe it came back!? That's pretty bad news for me: once again, my whole left side becomes a non-manoeuvring area, on the high ground.
My HQ unit in the centre took out the scout that was trying to come over from the centre right. Meanwhile, sound contacts seem to indicate that Bill is pushing hard with his armour up the centre right - faster than the inf screen could go, I think.
In Tame, my shoot and scoot of the AAHT did not draw any results: it didn't manage to spot any of Bil's troops in Tame before coming under small arms fire itself, and pulling back. My mortar unit has established a heavier field of smoke between the front infantry forces and the accompanying armour, so I think I can try another go with the AAHT - this time I will area fire into a building where Bil's troops headed.