[2nd SS Tank Fight Ready for Playtest on The Proving Grounds]

I have posted a scenario called HSG Barkmann's Corner on The Proving Grounds if anyone is interested in testing the 2nd SS Panzer Division. Or the 35th Infantry Division.

It will play either side against the AI or two player. It is very challenging as the German player. Panzer Aces only need apply...

The fight takes place just outside St. Lo. The German tank ace Ernst Barkmann killed 9 Shermans that day. Can you do as well? :confused:

If you think so hop on over to The Proving Grounds and give it a try.

Panther Commander

[Shermans Don't Explode??!!]

While doing a scenario in Normandy I find that Shermans don't explode when killed by a Panther. Now that is interesting news to me. I was under the impression that the Sherman exploded a good 20% of the time if not more when hit.

When I hit a Sherman with my Panther I want it to EXPLODE!!!

Any comments?

Panther Commander

[Desert Mountains?]

Originally posted by Ligur:

I've checked out a few desert mountain assaults, but really can't get into them. The terrain is incredibly hard to read (at least on my Radeon and flat screen), even with gridded tiles. The maps are often huge and very hard to take in. The maps I've seen appear like someone took a huge bucket of desert tiles and poured them in a pile to create a random jumble of small elevations and pits and then a "mountain" by smashing more tiles into one place. This could be realistic though Throw in some rocky terrain, some rough, some random scattered trees and a few battallions of pixeltruppen, playtest untill winnable vs AI. Mountain battle!

I don't think the purpose of CMAK is to spend 60 minutes just trying to understand the contours of the field :confused:

Then add the intense boredom of walking lots of infantry towards a distant elevation, not my cake at the moment. No disrespect to anyone who has designed such a battle of course, I just personally don't get a lot of fun out of it, I'm not saying the scenarios are poor. I'm sure there are a lot of players who enjoy this type of battle.

Well the type battle you describe puts me to sleep no matter where it is fought. I have my scenarios generally in combat by turn three. In my Roof of the World scenario you can assault on turn one if you like. I use about three turns of artillery fire on the forts first but that is optional. I don't think you can win without it but I'm only the designer and scenarios take a life of their own once they are released. For me most of the mountain is there for effect.

What I want is the assualt. Not a walk up the terrain trying to hug the earth. At least not in Roof of the World. So in that regards it is like most other assault scenarios it just happens to take place on mountains over 10,000 feet high.

It is getting very close to playtest.

Panther Commander

[Desert Mountains?]

Originally posted by Rick:

Wow, that does sound intriguing, but very difficult. My main interest is in wildlife and nature photography and the mountains of Ethiopia are well known to people with these interests because, they are so different than the surrounding countryside and that creates a place with very interesting wildlife. For instance, National Geographic recently published an article on the Gelada, which is a baboon like primate that lives in the Ethiopian highlands. One of the images from the article was one of the winners in the BBC Wildlife Photographer of the Year contest.

Point is I've read a great deal about the mountains of Ethiopia, just not connected to the war.

Well, if you read my briefing you'll know about the mountains effects on the war. And the war in general as it pertains to the Ethiopian theater.

My General Briefings are very in depth followed by a battle briefing that brings you to the current situation.

Mountain fighting is very different that's for sure.

Panther Commander

[Desert Mountains?]

The scenario takes place in the Ethiopian mountains. The peaks are all in a row. They are Pyramid at 10,800 feet, Whalesback at 10,900 feet and Elephant at 11,200 feet. I call it Roof of the World. It was called Battle for Amba Alagi, it was named after the Amba Alagi pass, that was itself at around 10,000. To make matters even more interesting it was raining during the fighting. This was the last battle of the Italian Army in Ethiopia.

On 4 May 1941 the 29th Indian Infantry Brigade from 5th Indian Division stormed the three peaks. The following day they were involved in taking more peaks but my scenario concentrates on the Indian Brigade taking these three peaks all on the same day.

Fighting up the mountain, against a dug in enemy, has proven difficult to say the least. I have been having some balance difficulties. I'm not sure the scenario will ever be able to be played two player, because, who is going to sit and watch the Indians move up the mountain, without sending every Italian soldier you can get to that side of the fort?

At this moment it appears that a judicitious use of smoke and artillery fire is needed to secure the forts but since they are mutually supporting it is a very tough nut to crack.

Anyway, I'll put a notice here on the boards when I post it to The Proving Grounds.

Panther Commander

[Sidi Rezegh]

Originally posted by rune:

Remind me to slap you when I get the chance.

The testers took the airfield by going wide to the right, and timing their assault with tanks. It is certainly a difficult one to win as the Allies, due to the fact you cannot gain surprise on the Italians. Feel free to take out 2-3 aa guns to balance it out a little better.

Hmm...makes me think...there should be a way to acheive surprise for CMX2. Say the guns cannot fire for the first XX turns. Got me thinking on this...

Rune

Think in terms of % of surprise. Like reinforcements. That way you are not automatically un-surprised at a specific moment but have to work through it.

Panther Commander

[Desert Mountains?]

Originally posted by Rick:

I'm just wondering if anyone else finds taking the desert mountains difficult?

I've played a few scenarios that required taking a mountain in the desert, and I've found it to be the most difficult thing that I've faced in any incarnation of CM. Taking a big hill in Italy isn't the easiest thing either, but easier than in the desert.

I think what I find difficult is the fact that you need the tanks for the firepower against entrenched infantry on the mountain, but they're not exactly that mobile on the mountain. Not to mention it seems to be more difficult for the tank's guns to get the range on the mountain side than on flat ground.

Yes Rick, I find fighting in the mountains very tough. I am doing a scenario where the Italians are entrenched on three mountain tops in ITalian East Africa. The mountaintops are all over 10,500 feet and there is no armor support. Yes taking a mountaintop is about the hardest thing I have done in CMBO, CMBB and now CMAK. At the moment the scenario is still being tweaked but in my case I can tell you that you better have a lot of artillery if you want to take the Roof of the World.

Panther Commander

[ONE Shot and it died!]

Originally posted by redwolf:

Actually this might not be a surprising story at all.

The lower hull plate of a Panther gets its robustness by angle, not thickness.

If the Panther was going over an obstacle and/or the Greyhound was sufficiently lower there would be no problem for the 37mm AP round (88mm max penetration in CMAK) to go through that plate (63mm in CMAK and usually lousy quality steel).

I don't see how that is relevant here.

It was used as an example of improbable hit results.

Panther Commander

[Any Equipment Available ANYTIME!!!!!!!]

I constantly see posts by designers, that tell of equipment that is not availble for a particular time period. It is available for your scenario if you want it to be.

The fix is simple. Go into the Parameters section and choose a time period, when, the equipment you want to add is available. Select that time period. Then go into the Unit Editor and select the equipment. Once you have the TO&E the way you want it, simply go back to the Parameters, set the correct time frame for your scenario and you are good to go. The equipment already chosen will remain in your TO&E and ready for your battle.

Panther Commander

[ONE Shot and it died!]

Originally posted by Michael Emrys:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Panther Commander:

I think that these types of stories make the books simply, BECAUSE, they are so out of the ordinary.

Agreed.

And once again, these type stories do give support to BFC's weak armor hits that make an impossible shot. IMHO.

I have no problem with that idea, and the incident may have occurred in exactly the manner described (as I have said before, lots of improbable things happen in real life and WW II was a big event with plenty of room for lots of improbable things), but I would take it with a grain of salt. Although a 37mm would have a better chance of performing as described than the Jabo-fired .50s we have heard about in these pages, the same counter-arguments still apply. Before I bought the story, I'd want to see a detailed discussion of the physical evidence. Until then, I reach no conclusion. For me, the story is filed neither as true or false but as "unproven".

Michael </font>

[Please everyone look at this]

Odessa, Texas

[ONE Shot and it died!]

Originally posted by Michael Emrys:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Panther Commander:

I have a book on the Battle of the Bulge that states an M8 Greyhound fired a 37mm round that hit the frozen road bounced off the road and hit a Panther in the bottom armour and penetrated. Thereby knocking out the Panther. Anything is possible and truth is stranger than fiction. Or M8 Greyhounds.

Ah. Well. If it was in a book, it must be true.

Michael </font>

[PATCH AND BUG Discussion]

While looking at the French Army for some scenario work I find that over half their support equipment is British. Why would the French have Bren and Vickers MG's? :confused: An oversight perhaps? :confused: Maybe this is accurate and I just don't know it. Otherwise I would like to see the French equipment.

Panther Commander

[ONE Shot and it died!]

Originally posted by aka_tom_w:

Replying to Redwolf:

I suppose the good thing is that "ANYTHING can happen" so it is not so predictable. I like that concept and I FULLY support the %1 weak spot chance to hit and I guess a %50 reduction in armour thickness at the weak spot is not unrealistic (BUT I really have no way to know that).

-tom w

[/QB]

[ONE Shot and it died!]

Originally posted by CMplayer:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Panther Commander:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by CMplayer:

A single, unsupported tiger can't 'rampage through infantry' in a town, especially in the short space of time left in that scenario.

Yes one can. </font>

[ONE Shot and it died!]

Originally posted by CMplayer:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Michael Emrys:

Suppose the Tiger had killed all your armor with first shot "lucky" kills while all your shots bounced off his armor, then preceded to rampage through all your infantry.

A single, unsupported tiger can't 'rampage through infantry' in a town, especially in the short space of time left in that scenario. </font>

[CM Vietnam]

Originally posted by Michael Dorosh:

A campaign layer would really make it interesting - you platoon commanders serve only six months while the troops they lead serve a year (13 months for the Marines) - and every individual has his own tour of duty meaing some of your experienced troops will be leaving pretty much on a regular basis. IF CM2 ever includes that kind of level of detail, the challenges for a company commander would be all the more pronounced. [/QB]

If CM would simply put the ability to change maps in the operations. That way the company/platoon could fight more than one engagement on a patrol and it could be on different maps. Kind of like Close Combat did eons ago. Hopefully we could see that feature in the CMX2.

Panther Commander

[CMAK Imminent - can we fix the Scenario Depot Rating System Beforehand?]

Originally posted by Spookster:

I think the simpler the system the better. We need more reviews. To get that done an easier, simpler system, would work better. IMHO. I agree whether it is a five, three or two point system would be better than what we have now. KISS is the way to go.

Panther Commander

[CM Vietnam]

Originally posted by Sergei:

Really, why on earth would anyone be interested in Vietnam? :confused: The US involvement in that war can be presented with those already available for CMBB, they all were the same. Thick jungle, some G.I's and lots of Charlies. The tactical situation was very lopsided and it was because of the strategic problems that the US couldn't win. If I had to point out some of the most uninteresting conflicts of 20th century for a squad level game, that would be one. If BFC decides to go post-WW2, then I'd expect them to pick something interesting, like the Ethiopia-Eritrean conflict, Arab-Israeli wars, Korean war, Iraq-Iran war and of course the Indian-Pakistani wars. Even the Soviet occupation of Afghanistan would be tactically more interesting and varying, there you'd at least have heavily armed but poorly trained soldiers against lightly armed but experienced guerrillas.

Well there would be some very good post WWII games to pick from but Vietnam is one of the more diverse areas to pick and would probably offer a better mix than any of the others. There is I Corps with the Marines, the Highlands, the Jungle, Delta, not to mention Special Forces of all kinds and multiple small engagements that are well documented with maps available. There aren't that many vehicles to model and the combat ranges are similair to what we use now. So Vietnam gets my vote. Now after that we can discuss...

Panther Commander

[What kind of AI scenarios do you prefer?]

I like the ones that push me to the limit.

Panther Commander

[PATCH AND BUG Discussion]

Location fires bug me. There is no suppression or negative effects of being in a fire location...you can't order someone to move in there so it must be bad but as long as you are there when the fire starts you just sit there roasting your hot dogs and marshmellows and have a grand old time. I would like fire to be the serious threat to life and limb that it is when I try to order a squad anywhere near it on foot. Rather than the steam room it is at the moment.

Panther Commander

[Reviewing the Scenario Depot]

Originally posted by Spookster:

Fellas,

Secondly, since I have a few days before I have to get back to work (give up on CM for a while, sigh), I want some suggestions on which other scenarios I should review to get them over the required THREE reviews. I cannot promise I will like the scenarios, but I do promise to review them with complete honesty. So if you have a scenario that you think is outstanding but languishing at the SD, post it here.

Thanks.

Outstanding idea. I applaud you. Are you looking for vs AI or H2H as well? More people should review. Do one a week, one every other week, one a month, whatever just do ONE!!!

The CMAK section is beginning to fill up with scenarios that are looking for reviews I believe that only Welcome to Africa has the required 3 at the moment.

Panther Commander

[Operations]

I don't like operations. Period. So I rarely play them. That doesn't make operations bad. It is my choice. Since I don't play operations, the CMAK disk is flawed, because I'm not getting my money's worth. The whole CM System sucks because I don't like operations.

Now, of course, this is all true. But the premise is ridiculous. I don't like operations so I don't play them. I don't berate the designers, who make them, because I don't play them. I feel like some of the scenarios are not as good as they might be. SO I make my own. I know what I like and some other people like that same thing. Others don't. Some dont' even like battles. (We're praying for them.)

Listen Blow2, here's the deal. Your opinion is worth as much as everyone else's. But you have to take some of the venom out of it. If you have some idea about what you don't like, state that, not that all operations are lousy, which is not true. The idea that ALL operations suck, unless you don't like operations to begin with, is ridiculous. I have not, nor am I likely to, play any of the operations on the CMAK disk, but to claim that an airborne operation that starts with a scattered drop is flawed seems a bit odd to me. For instance, IF I was to play an operation on an airborne drop, and IF it DIDN'T have a scattered drop , I would think it un-historical. So you see it's all a matter of perspective.

What is not a matter of perspective is a personal attack on the designer. That is what every person on here has tried to get across to you. You should at least try to be objective in your criticism and telling everyone that the one you are "about to do" will get it right isn't cutting it. This crowd is from Missouri, "show us", maybe you are the greatest operation designer in the world but until you have some product we aren't buying the sales pitch.

And now you have my $.02 worth to go along with everyone else's.

Panther Commander

[Gonna play ma scenario? Just gonna please?]

From what I can tell they have gotten a better than average response for the short time they have been on the SD.

Panther Commander

[American Paratrooper Scenario available for Playtesting at TPG!!]

And it's called A Paratrooper Party. Since I forgot to say that in the earlier post.

Panther Commander