[American Paratrooper Scenario available for Playtesting at TPG!!]

I have posted a new CMAK Scenario for playtesting on The Proving Grounds. It is a fight that took place in France 1944. A German paratroop unit fights with American paratroops on June the 8th. The scenario is a two player 20 turn small battle.

Enjoy.

Panther Commander

[I HATE CAS!]

Originally posted by GreenAsJade:

But in all seriousness, I really do wonder why designers put CAS into their scenarios.

It is clearly an element of pure randomness... I can't really see how that adds value to a tactical game.

In historic scenarios, sure. If you are trying to simulate the confusion and frustration felt by troops under friendly fire, then do that.

But other than that, it seems like a pointless addition to a scenario: you can't plan anything based on it, and you can have the best plan working well only to be wiped out by it...

GaJ.

CAS works very well at higher experience levels. I use it all the time and it depends on how well it performed in the original battle as to how effective I make it in my scenario. You can make them deadly to the enemy or to anybody depending on what their experience level is. If I give you Stukas with Elite crews the Brits better watch out. If I give you crews of less than Veteran quality you better watch out.

Simple as that.

Panther Commander

[SOTW... Beda Fomm Spoiler Alert]

[/qb]

[SOTW... Beda Fomm Spoiler Alert]

[/qb]

[Why do YOU love the Scenario Depot? (or not)]

Originally posted by Alsatian:

Love the Depot. Love historical scenarios. Like to find scenarios with no reviews and give em a boost if I like them.

That is exactly what I try to do as well. There is a scenario design group out there that only does historical scenarios. The group is called Historical Scenario Group. HSG for short. They post their scenarios at different locations on the internet. The Scenario Depot being the main one.

That is probably the nicest part of SD, the variety of scenarios covered.

Panther Commander

[SOTW... Beda Fomm Spoiler Alert]

Originally posted by Pheasant Plucker:

Fair comment, and apologies, if you construe my posts as sanctimonius. However I have a relative who died in the Beda Fomm battle, and ask for your forbearance if I get very focussed on a mis-representation (to be polite ) of the action.

FWIW an honest admission will resolve it all for me, and I hope that even if/when this doesn't happen, a few people might have taken the trouble to have a look at the real story.

Having just popped up on this little gem of a thread I feel the need for the infamous $.02 hitting me.

First, let me say, that I greive for your loss. Sensitivities run deep with the death of family members involved.

Speaking of sensitivities think about Rune's for a moment. Is this how you would want someone to review one of your scenarios? All of you, not just PP.

Rune obviously has done research on the scenario; so what if every tank isn't portrayed as EXACTLY accurate. He goes to the trouble of getting maps from the archives and that isn't enough? He has references both in books and on websites and that isn't enough? ANYBODY can make a mistake. I have seen some glaring ones out there. Rather than throw them to the wolves in public and that is what you ALL are doing you could simply email Rune and tell him of what you consider to be a glaring mistake.

How many of you have made a scenario and then had thousands of people review it? :confused:

Rune has, his work is reviewed by the masses. He puts his work on the CD. Every person who buys that CD will more than likely at one time or another play his game and have an opinion on it.

Making a wargame scenario is ALWAYS a compromise. You CAN'T make it EXACTLY as it was. I don't care what you know about the battle. The BEST that you can do is get it as close as possible and sometimes that means just the flavor or intent of the fight. I have seen some combats done that were in real life blow outs but the scenario was competitive and interesting. So it is up to the designer to make that happen for me.

This tread would be just as bad if the scenario was so lopsided it was unplayable now wouldn't it? :confused:

I believe the point he was trying to make with the French website is that he even looked there for information. I can't read French either and I for one am not apologizng for it...

So here is the deal... Did he research it? I think he did. Did he get some of it wrong? I think he did. Should we kill him for it? I think not or he won't ever make another scenario for the masses (that is you and me) to play.

Think about the time and effort that Rune not only putinto the scenario but what time and effort he has spent here defending his work to you. He could be using that same T&E in researching his next scenario. Hours are spent in research, making a map, setting troop levels, and then PLAYTESTING...PLAYTESTING...PLAYTESTING!!

Think about it. While you're at it, think about this too, if you don't like Rune's work don't play it. Getting ugly to Rune here won't change a thing.

There now you have my $.02 on the issue. Shoot at me awhle and let Rune catch his breath.

Panther Commander

[SOTW... Beda Fomm Spoiler Alert]

Originally posted by Pheasant Plucker:

Fair comment, and apologies, if you construe my posts as sanctimonius. However I have a relative who died in the Beda Fomm battle, and ask for your forbearance if I get very focussed on a mis-representation (to be polite ) of the action.

FWIW an honest admission will resolve it all for me, and I hope that even if/when this doesn't happen, a few people might have taken the trouble to have a look at the real story.

Having just popped up on this little gem of a thread I feel the need for the infamous $.02 hitting me.

First, let me say, that I greive for your loss. Sensitivities run deep with the death of family members involved.

Speaking of sensitivities think about Rune's for a moment. Is this how you would want someone to review one of your scenarios? All of you, not just PP.

Rune obviously has done research on the scenario; so what if every tank isn't portrayed as EXACTLY accurate. He goes to the trouble of getting maps from the archives and that isn't enough? He has references both in books and on websites and that isn't enough? ANYBODY can make a mistake. I have seen some glaring ones out there. Rather than throw them to the wolves in public and that is what you ALL are doing you could simply email Rune and tell him of what you consider to be a glaring mistake.

How many of you have made a scenario and then had thousands of people review it? :confused:

Rune has, his work is reviewed by the masses. He puts his work on the CD. Every person who buys that CD will more than likely at one time or another play his game and have an opinion on it.

Making a wargame scenario is ALWAYS a compromise. You CAN'T make it EXACTLY as it was. I don't care what you know about the battle. The BEST that you can do is get it as close as possible and sometimes that means just the flavor or intent of the fight. I have seen some combats done that were in real life blow outs but the scenario was competitive and interesting. So it is up to the designer to make that happen for me.

This tread would be just as bad if the scenario was so lopsided it was unplayable now wouldn't it? :confused:

I believe the point he was trying to make with the French website is that he even looked there for information. I can't read French either and I for one am not apologizng for it...

So here is the deal... Did he research it? I think he did. Did he get some of it wrong? I think he did. Should we kill him for it? I think not or he won't ever make another scenario for the masses (that is you and me) to play.

Think about the time and effort that Rune not only putinto the scenario but what time and effort he has spent here defending his work to you. He could be using that same T&E in researching his next scenario. Hours are spent in research, making a map, setting troop levels, and then PLAYTESTING...PLAYTESTING...PLAYTESTING!!

Think about it. While you're at it, think about this too, if you don't like Rune's work don't play it. Getting ugly to Rune here won't change a thing.

There now you have my $.02 on the issue. Shoot at me awhle and let Rune catch his breath.

Panther Commander

[What was the bravest action you've seen in CM?]

I had 3 Tiger I's around Kharkov, knock out 36 T-34's, in a night engagement inside a village. One of them took on 22 T-34's by himself. The Tigers were part of GD in early 43. Those T-34's just couldn't get the angle on the Tigers. By the time they came close to getting a flank shot in the dark another T-34 went up in flames. The village had T-34 lighting for the evening.

Panther Commander

[New CMAK Scenarios on the SD!!!!!!!!!!]

Since this morning 8 scenarios have been posted to the Scenario Depot for CMAK.

Panther Commander

[New CMAK Scenarios on the SD!!!!!!!!!!]

Originally posted by Fluf:

Oh, if only I knew what an "SD" was!

It is the Scenario Depot!!

Here is the web address...

http://ns9.super-hosts.com/~dragonlair.net

/combatmission

Hope that helps..

Panther Commander

[New CMAK Scenarios on the SD!!!!!!!!!!]

There are three new CMAK scenarios that have been posted to the SD ready for downloading.

Play them, then do a REVIEW on them!

Panther Commander

[No Italian offensive in 1940?]

You can get the Afika Korps by going to July 1941. BFC is aware of it. Simply pick any date you want put in the equipment then go back and change the date the equipment stays. SO you can do any battle you want by just changing the date in the editor.

You can get the earlier Italians the same way.

Panther Commander

[How come the allies won?]

Originally posted by Steiner14:

Jazz27,

simply take a look at a world-map, at the resources of the USA, the (former) British Empire, France and it's colonies, the USSR and the tiny Germany and at production numbers.

Then you'll definately not ask that question again.

Even not the best army in the world could win against +90% of world's resources.

I think that the reason the Germans lost WWII were the decisions Hitler made. As far as taking on the whole world the Germans did that through Hitler and some bad circumstances. The US wasn't going to war with Germany anytime soon until Pearl Harbor so throw that part of the arguement out. The Germans whipped the French so fast they didn't have a chance to say " I surrender!" so out go the French the British were so weak they couldn't come off their island anywhere but on the edges of the German occupation areas. In their defense they were scattered all over the world and didn't have just the Germanst to worry about. The Germans didn't fully mobilize for war until late into the war. Had they mobilized they would have been able to produce sufficient arms to fight. They had almost the entire resource base of Europe long before the US entered into the war.

No, for my money, if Hitler had played his cards right he could have won. Period.

And there you have my $.02 worth.

Panther Commander

[wittmann scenario for CMAK]

Originally posted by PeterX:

In CMBO, the designer had to go into contortions to shoehorn this battle into the CM system. First of all, Wittman surpised the elements of the 7th Armored Div outside their tanks taking tea. This cannot be simulated in CM. Also, in order to give the Germans a shooting chance, the decision was made to degrade the Brits, who, as the Desert Rats of NA fame, should be Veterans, down to Conscript. A total joke.

Save your time. Wait for the engine rewrite when guns and AFVs will have detachable crews.

I think that the designer had every right to show the British tank crews as conscript. How did they react? Once the Tiger was seen and the tanks were crewed did they get him or did they act like conscripts? Surprise is a powerful thing. It can turn some men weak at the knees and others to lions.

You are right about the constraints of the CM system. Plus, not every scenario is for everybody. There are plenty of scenarios to choose from without having to play those you disagree with.

Panther Commander

[My first scenario/battle submission]

Originally posted by GJK:

Messages posted on any of the boards will post instantly, not sure why yours did not.

_________________________________________________

I'll try it again then and see what I did wrong.

_________________________________________________

It is not neccessary to post a message to ask for people to PT a newly posted scenario, there's about 30-40 of us that have been very active in PT and we've done a pretty good job I think of getting through the 150 or so scenarios that have been posted (some since removed) from the site. Yours were just posted, and the CMAK ones were promptly played by some of us. Others may be testing them now but have not yet posted a note. You may have fallen victim to everyone wanting to get their CMAK fix right away, thus the CMBB scenarios haven't had the same response.

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I agree the CMAK scenarios were promptly played. They have all been downloaded at least 7 times. That was what prompted the comments of not knowing if they are being played or not.

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Also, there's nothing saying you can't also upload to the SD, you'll most likely get more exposure for the scenarios there as it's a well established site that has been around for quite a bit longer. You can also leave your scenarios at TPG, and when they've been played and reviewed, if you want to make changes, modify the scenarios on both sites, or remove it from TPG and just modify the one on the SD.

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All very true. And a likely course of action for Welcome to Africa at least. Since it is so small I figure that anybody who wants to play it already has. You can play it in less than an hour as you well know.

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Yes, it would be nice if everyone would post a note saying that they're now testing x scenario, I try to make it a habit to do so, and I've seen a number of others do it as well. Not everyone does though. I've thought about implementing some sort of "check out" system where something like that would be logged, but haven't acted upon it and not sure that I will.

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Buddy that was only a suggestion...far be it from me to tell you how to run your site. It looks pretty good from where I am sitting.

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A suggestion would be to maybe post a note to the main board saying something to the effect of "wanting to move {scenario} to the Scenario Depot, if anyone is currently playtesting it, let me know so that I can hold off". Let me know if you have any problems posting to the board, it's worked without issue up to this point, so not sure why your post didn't go through (you will first see a "preview" of your message, where you then hit "submit" again before it goes to the board, maybe you left at the preview screen?).

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I'll try again and see what happens. It must have been my inexperience with the board that I didn't get it posted up.

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TPG isn't perfect, the number of new scenarios coming in to those that are actively playtesting them is about a 3-1 ratio at best. Also, most people PT them via Pbem, which could take weeks. I see that Assault, Guns Forward! which this thread was originally about and which was posted before yours has not been tested yet either. It's on my play list for tonight. Just got to be patient, or as I said, go ahead and move it up to the SD, there's no hard written rules for how to distribute everyones work.

_________________________________________________That works for me.

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Once again I would like to say what a good job I think TPG does and how much I appreciate the work that has been done. The job of playtesting scenarios is not easy. Being diplomatic about failings in a scenario is not always easy either. Keep up the good work. And thanks for your quick responses here on this site. I appreciate that as well.

Panther Commander

[My first scenario/battle submission]

Originally posted by GJK:

Which scenario would that be? Chances are, we just haven't gotten to yours yet, there was quite a few new scenarios posted in the past couple of weeks. I've PT'd a handful this past week and I see posts on the site from others doing the same. Did you make an announcement on TPG message board asking for help in playtesting?

I put what I thought was a post on the general site about an hour ago, but I haven't seen it displayed as of this moment. There may be a delay in posting the comments or maybe it didn't go through for some reason.

A quick question about asking for playtesting though...isn't that the the sole purpose of TPG? Do you need to post a scenario, then go and ask the group to Playtest them?

Let me make my intentions clear...I have several scenarios now posted to the site. At some point I am going to say enough. Then I am going to post them to the SD. If there are people playtesting the scenario, but haven't put a note on the discussion board, how are you to know this is happening. I've gotten about a half dozen reviews, on the two that have been reviewed, and not once did anybody tell me that they were playing them.

This is not a bitch session!! It is for the PT'ers, as well as the designers. I wouldn't want to be in the middle of play testing one of your scenarios, for instance, and have you pull it before I posted my review of it to you.

I have posted the HSG scenarios, except The Headquarters. And yes there have been several new scenarios put up since I uploaded some of mine. The Welcome to Africa scenario has a few reviews and I am considering posting it to the SD this week. I don't know if anybody is still playing it. If there is, I would like to give them a chance to give me their opinion. Their opinion is very important.

By the way, thanks for a site well done. It is great having a place to send scenarios that need to be PT'ed.

Panther Commander

[My first scenario/battle submission]

Originally posted by GJK:

I have seen some of my scenarios downloaded as many as 14 times but no-one has left a single message that they are starting to PT a scenario. It would help the designer greatly to know who is currently PT'ing a scenario. I may be getting ready to pull the scenario and post it to the SD and there could be three PT's that would finish in a day or two after I did that.

Is there a way to get the PT'ers to post a notice that they are playing the game? That way their efforts can get the proper amount of attention from the designers?

Panther Commander

[Jeff Weatherspoon's Tutorial-Awesome!]

Originally posted by jwxspoon:

Panther Commander - an AAR would be great. Hope you enjoy it.

jw

You have one coming.

We are a couple of turns into the fight. This is my favorite type of fight a Meeting Engagement.

After WWII the Soviets did a very prolonged and in depth study of combat. They determined that almost half of all combats were meeting engagements. That seems high when you consider the amount of prepared assaults that had to have been done. Anyway it wasn't my study it was theirs...<G>

The Russians defined a Meeting Engagement as, "at least one of the combatants meeting his opponent in an unexpected manner."

They produced an offensive doctrine from that study that applies specifically to meeting engagements.

All of that is very nice and has little relevence,except that having studied the Soviet art of war in the service, it is interesting to see how it works in application. The Russian studies were very detailed and their tactics for deployment off the move very refined. They were also still the textbook answer style from WWII.

Anyway an AAR is coming.

Panther Commander

[Jeff Weatherspoon's Tutorial-Awesome!]

Originally posted by jwxspoon:

Panther Commander - I have two new ones, Well of Souls and Murphy's Law, that will be released with an upcoming Boots & Tracks pack.

But if you like, email me at jwxspoon@combatmission.com and I will send it to you.

jw

We are PBEM'ing Well of Souls would you like an AAR when we are finished?

Panther Commander

[Von Lauchert Help]

What scenario is this?

[Soviet 100 mm guns]

Originally posted by Monwar:

The 100 mm gun - it's damn powerful. Why didnt the Soviets used it more?

The Russians had production problems. Same reason the Germans didn't stop producing the Pz II's or III's until late in the war. The Russians couldn't afford to shut down lines making a particular gun they were fighting with to produce one for 'later'.

Panther Commander

[Destroyed vehicles as a selectable terrain feature...]

Originally posted by Jack Carr:

I was designing a scenario last night and thought that it would be nice to be able to place destroyed/knocked out vehicles and guns in the terrain. Does anyone know if this can be done?

There are no tiles that I know of that allow you to do this. However, I have used small wrecked or burning buildings to show this. I then label them as such on the map. The real intent of wrecks besides the obvious eye candy is to block LOS or alert the friendlys of the whereabouts of the bad boys. A line of knocked out tanks should tell you something around here might not be good for your health...

Panther Commander

[My first scenario/battle submission]

Also is there a way to see how many times the scenario has been downloaded to get some kind of an idea if anyone is even looking at the scenario?

[My first scenario/battle submission]

Originally posted by GJK:

At TPG, you can go to "Join/Authors Login" and see the stats for each of your scenarios, how many and who has downloaded them (and maps if any) and also you can click to modify your scenario or delete it (once it's been "proven" and moved on to the SD or elsewhere...remember, we're just a playtesting outlet and not a permanent scenario archive).

What does playing blind refer to? When entering a scenario it asks for points. What exactly does it want here...the points for the largest force or what?

Panther Commander

[My first scenario/battle submission]

How exactly do reviews take place on TPG? Just anybody picks any scenario they want to play? I see some that seem to have been there for some time without a review. Just asking since I am fairly new to TPG. :confused:

Panther Commander