Mad Russian
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Posts posted by Mad Russian
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Are you going to share them? :confused: :confused:Originally posted by Andreas:PC - I expect to get the war diary pages of the allied unit involved in the Fey fight covering that fight sometime next week.
I for one would love to see them. Of course they will be in German and I may have to muddle through that but it would still be interesting to see them.
Panther Commander
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I was wrong about the BF prefix on the first ones at least we posted them with just their normal names.
Panther Commander
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These scenarios will prefaced with HSG BF. They will be released individually. Some are still in playtest on The Proving Grounds site. All of the scenarios released to the Scenario Depot have been run through The Proving Grounds first.Originally posted by GJK:PC: Will the scenarios be uploaded as a "pack" or individually? If individually (which I'd recommend btw so that we can discuss individual ones) will they have a related naming scheme so that we'll know that they are part of your pack? Will the the name have numbering or dates as well so that we can play them in order?
These sound great, can't wait to dig into them!
HSG does it's own playtesting but there is no such thing as too much playtesting. HSG uses the site for about 80-90% of our PBEM playtesting. A lot of the vs AI playtesting we do ourselves.
The Proving Grounds is a very valuable tool for us with over 1000 members currently it gives us a wide range of playtester talent to tap into.
We will be uploading them about 4 or 5 a week until we get them all finished.
Panther Commander
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The Historic Scenario Design Group, HSG for short, is releasing it's first group of scenarios on the Battle for France to the Scenario Depot. The first group will be available for download around 10am Central time 27 February.
The battles range from 6 June to 25 August over the French countryside of Normandy. The scenarios will cover over a dozen battles and at least three operations in the pack.
There will be about 5 scenarios a week released until the pack is completely released. There are still scenarios for the pack in playtest at The Proving Grounds if anyone is interested.
We hope that you enjoy them as much playing them, as we did making them.
Panther Commander
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I knew about Fey's action it is recounted in several other places...but the Jagdpanthers debut is not one I had heard of. Two minutes isn't much time to kill 14 tanks. What a fight.Originally posted by Kingfish:Here are a couple of interesting excerpts of other battles near Vire at or around 8/6/44
The first describes a battle on 8/8/44 in the Brit sector
The actions for which Fey won his German cross in Gold are recounted in detail here and are typical of the type of material presented by individual SS tank commanders in the book.
By the beginning of August 1944 the German lines in Normandy were crumbling. On 8 August as Allied forces crept towards Vire, west of Falaise, Willi Fey as an SS-Unterscharführer from the 1st Company of sSSPzAbt 102, launched an attack, supported by the 1./Pioneer Btn 600 under Oberleutnant GAUL, on a column of 15 Shermans and gun carriers from the 23rd Hussars/11th Armoured Division, sighted approaching down the valley from the direction of the hamlet of Houssemagne. Opening fire at a distance of 600 metres, 4 Shermans are rapidly put out of action. Feys Tiger «134» is disabled by a number of hits. Kommandeur Pz. Ab 102 Obersturmbannführer Weiß orders Fey to blow up his Tiger. Fey continues firing at the Shermans accounting for 14 off them in a 30 minute action. His Tiger is towed back to German lines later that night. Weiß recommends Fey for the Deutsche Kreuz in Gold following this action and the award is presented by General II Panzerkorps Bittrich on 15 September 1944...
The second is a military print of the Jagdpanther's debut in Normandy
The Jagdpanther was considered by many to have been the most potent anti-tank weapon of the war, combining the armoured lines of the Panther tank and awesome power of the 88mm gun. This was probably first demonstrated during the British advance through the Caumont Gap during "Operation Bluecoat" when the Jagdpanthers of Heavy Tank Battalion 654 engaged the Churchills of the 6th Guards Tank Brigade. A squadron of Churchills covering Point 226 suddenly started exploding one after another. Breaking cover from the "Bois du Homme" 2 Jagdpanthers covered by a third proceeded to pick off more of the British tanks only retreating when they came under fire. Although the 2 Jagdpanthers had to be abandoned due to track damage, they managed to destroy 14 of the Scots Guards tanks in an engagement which lasted only 2 minutes!
August must have been a bad month for allied tankers
Interesting stuff. I am in fact working on the Fey engagement and am trying to get it done to release with our Battle for France pack that we start to release tomorrow at the SD. We will release a few scenarios a week until they are all released. I may have time to get the Fey engagement done by then.
Thanks for bringing it to my attention.
Panther Commander
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Steve,
That is excellent information. Thank you for the research. I'll use most of it.
You should have a scenario headed your way by the first part of next week.
Panther Commander
[ February 26, 2004, 09:32 AM: Message edited by: Panther Commander ]
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You can also go to The Proving Grounds.Originally posted by sje_123:Hi guys (and gals!),
Can anyone point me in the direction of a site or sites where I can download maps/mission/operations etc. for CMAK, I've had a look around but cant find any?
Cheers,
Steve
http://www.garykrockover.com/cmbb/index.html
There you can not only download them but playtest them and have a say in how they turn out.
Panther Commander
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The way "Hell on Wheels" reads it is pretty obvious Houston is often paraphrasing (or perhaps even quoting) the various unit AARs. I suspect the tankers were refering to whatever river it was as "the Vire river" and he just brought it along without checking. Same for the apparent math problem w/ number of tanks in a medium tank company (10 knocked out, 9 continue = 19, when TO&E was 17).Originally posted by Steve McClaire:</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Panther Commander:
An interesting thing about this passage is that doing a check on map quest there is no Vire river in the 2nd Armored Division area of operations. That river lies in the British 11th Armored Divisions area of operations.
There are details scattered through the narrative about exactly what CCA units were where. I can sort these out if you want more details.
Steve </font>
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An interesting thing about this passage is that doing a check on map quest there is no Vire river in the 2nd Armored Division area of operations. That river lies in the British 11th Armored Divisions area of operations.Originally posted by Steve McClaire:I believe it was CCA of US 2nd Armored. They were trying to take Vire August 4-6th and lost at least 14 Shermans on August 6th (all from the same company) which is specifically mentioned in the source I have, though it does not give a total of tanks lost on that day. See pages 240-242 of "Hell on Wheels" by Donald E. Houston. Here is a brief quotation:
"...One tank company lined up behind a hedgerow, planning to rush the Vire river. German fire knocked out ten of the tanks; when the other nine moved out to cross the river four of the were promptly destroyed."
Steve
Thanks for the quote though. I think we have finally found the tank fight. And although not an actual battlefield map of the exact starting locations at least a situation map for the day.
Panther Commander
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Never assume. The British Columbia regiment - in effect, a single tank battalion - was wiped out in a single morning at Point 195, after having laagered on the wrong hill the previous night. It certainly wasn't inconceivable for entire battalions to be destroyed in Normandy in a single day, infantry or armoured. The Black Watch of Canada were virtually exterminated at Verrieres Ridge in a single afternoon; 325 men of the rifle companies yielded just 15 survivors after their attack. </font>Originally posted by Michael Dorosh:</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Panther Commander:
Also if they took 26 tanks casualties in an hour they would almost have to be an Armored Division. That would wipe a single tank battalion out.
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The entry for the 29th ID in Shelby Stanton's "Order of Battle U.S. Army WWII" states that they took the contested town of Vire on 7 August. At the time they are shown to have the 747th Tank Battalion assigned to them.
Panther Commander
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Check out this website for the very detailed operational maps. They show a very good idea of the location of Allied units and a pretty good location for German ones. Since he touts the units as Americans twice that leads me to believe that the unit was more than likely 2nd Armored. Also if they took 26 tanks casualties in an hour they would almost have to be an Armored Division. That would wipe a single tank battalion out.Originally posted by Andreas:I have heard people comment that Kurowski is not that reliable as a source. I believe he is a former PK Man. 'Vielschreiber' was the term used. The title of the book you mention sounds like he continued to use the terminology that he learned as a PK journo.
I believe Michael's map may not be of much help, because by early August the sectors may have shifted considerably. I am quite sure that the town of Vire itself was in the sector of the British 21st Army Group.
Web Site http://www.canadahistory.com/sections/conflict/confwwiijuno.htm
Panther Commander
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I found a detailed map of the area for the 6th of August. You can see it at this web site. Look at map Falaise Pocket in the lower left hand corner. This shows the 2nd Armored and the British 11th Amrored Divisions side by side around Vire. It is beginning to look like the American unit is the 2nd Armored Division. I'll see what I can find out about them.
Here is the website:
http://www.canadahistory.com/sections/conflict/confwwiijuno.htm
Panther Commander
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It's my understanding that this battle was near the town of Vire. That is what all of the information on Stug Bde 394 shows. That the battle was near the town.Originally posted by Kingfish:Scrolling over to August 6th and zooming in I see the Brit 11th and Guards Armored located to the NE of Vire, US 2nd inf to the north, and US 28th and 29th inf to the NW. The US 2nd Armd is also there behind the latter two Inf divs, but not sure if it is in a support role or being held as an exploitation force.
The Germans include 352nd and 363rd Inf, what looks like 3rd FJ and possibly some elements of 9th SS Panzer. 10th SS Panzer looks to be held in reserve.
I also see the 2nd and 116th Panzer to the SW, but IIRC they were moving west in preparation for the Mortain counterattack.
That should get you started
Edit: Nevermind, I should have read your intital post more carefully. I thought you were talking about a battle near the town of Vire, when you really meant somewhere near the Vire river. My goof.
Panther Commander
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According to this website the 36th Infantry Division supported by tanks from the 737th Tank Battalion on 31 July.
The 2nd ID was on the 36th ID left and the 29th ID was on their right.
Here is the website.
http://www.coulthart.com/134/35chapter_4.htm
Panther Commander
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Well, you did not say a lot about what you had, so it could have been that you just did not type in the info. Sorry for trying to help.Originally posted by Andreas:</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Panther Commander:
No, I don't know which division or corps they were attached to, and no, I don't know the US tank battalion that lost the Shermans. That's why I came here. To find out the answer to those two questions.
Anyway, it was almost certainly not a US battalion but a UK regiment. </font>
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Yes this site shows that they entered combat around Vire on 4 August. So far stiil no accompanying units or any identification of the American forces. Not to mention no maps.Originally posted by Turbo:Take a look here.
Panther Commander
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Sorry I don't do French. But that site only showed very limited dates of deployment if I understood at all what I was looking at.Originally posted by Mr. Tittles:Stug.Abt 394 :
Formée en 03/44 à Deutsch Eylau - Ardennes - Alsace Lorraine 12/44 - 01/45 ?
Panther Commander
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No, I don't know which division or corps they were attached to, and no, I don't know the US tank battalion that lost the Shermans. That's why I came here. To find out the answer to those two questions.
"Sturmgeschutze vor!" page 167, says that the Brigade was assigned to 7th Army but under the command of SS Obergruppenfuhrer Hausser.
That should mean 1st SS Panzer Corps, but I find no mention of the Brigade, in any of the literature that I have on it. So I am at a loss.
The 3rd Battery was led by the Brigade Commander Hauptmann Freiherr von Jena. He personally destroyed six of the Shermans before being wounded himself earning him the German Cross in Gold.
Has the makings of a good fight if I can get some more information about it.
Panther Commander
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I would like to know EXACTLY where the Strumgeschutz Brigade 394 was on 6 August 1944.
Wherever they were a single section killed 26 Shermans in an hour. My source, Sturmgeschutze vor! says that they were somewhere on the Vire. I would appreciate ANY information on this unit on that day.
Thanks ahead of time.
Panther Commander
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Yes this helps tremendously. Thanks for the assist.Originally posted by JasonC:They weren't with an SS unit, they were with Heer infantry at this time. Specifically the 271st infantry division. Here is an abbreviated report, the stuff I found quickly -
July, with II SS Pz Krps. With 10SS, in place of missing Panther battalion. 2 August, transfered to 9SS. But then 9 August, sent to area north of Falaise. 11 August, reports 7 Tigers still running, and is subordinate to the 271st Infantry division.
Fought successive actions at Espins, Martainville, Falaise and Necy until 18 August. (Since it fought at Falaise itself, it obviously faced the Canadians, since they are the ones who took it). Last damaged tanks deliberately destroyed August 24 during retreat to the Seine.
A reference for its move to the 271st ID is -
PzAOK 5 Ia Nr. 899/44 g.Kdos, 12.8.44, Nachtrag zur Tagesmeldung 11.8, T313, R420, F8714187
I hope this helps.
Panther Commander
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Great maps but they don't allow you to zoom in and get any details.Originally posted by Alsatian:Here are the daily situation maps from the 12th Army Group, D-Day through Falaise Gap. Hosted by Library of Congress. Shows daily position of 271st I.D. as far as allied intelligence thought.
Just browse through til you find the date you want.
I will spend more time on the site and maybe figure out a way to get clearer identification of units and details from the maps.
Thanks for the help.
Panther Commander
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During the battle of the Falaise Pocket, the Heavy SS Tank Battalion 102, had all of it's Tiger tanks knocked out. They then fought on as infantry and tank assault teams.
I need to know where in the line they fought.
There were several SS units in the pocket and I would like to know which one they were assigned to. I know that the Falaise Pocket was a mixed up mess as far as unit assignments go but any information would be appreciated.
Panther Commander
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Could I talk you into doing a 3rd Armored mod? That is the unit I was with. Not in WWII though.
Panther Commander
HSG Releases Battle for France Scenarios!!
in Combat Mission: Afrika Korps
Posted
Thanks for the overall comments as well. We work hard at getting it right.
Panther Commander