xwormwood

That's the part I'm really not sure of, whether the U. S. would have used the A-bomb on Europeans I am not sure if it is true or not, but i heard once (can't remember from whom) that Hamburg was the first choice target for the first a-bomb. But Germany capitulated before the first bomb was completed, so the US droped it on Japan (US curiosity killed the [japanese]cat) Japanese troops fighting to death wasn't seen so much as bravery or heroism but as sub-human stupidity. Recently i saw a documantery about the pacific war on TV. An old man who was a US marine in WW2 stated that his unit NEVER made any prisoners. That would be another explanation why the japs always "fought" to the death... Did the US ever started trials to find oui, if their own troops commited war crimes in WW2(like Nuremberg 1945/46)? I don't want to compare anything, but i just and honestly don't know anything about this issue, so i would be glad if someone could improve my limited horizon.

This WAS my definative strategy. :mad: The only thing you have to do is to bring some ships from the atlantic into the medsea. Three or four additional ships (british AND french) should do the trick. Avoid every fight in the medsea (if possible) until the reinforcements have arrived and voilà: finis italia. The french troops in france can hold out long enough to let your combined fleet show the italians who really rules the waves. If one or two lucky italians escape to their harbors: let them go. Better the italian Player repairs useless ships instead of buildung up an army to reign yugoslavia etc.

First of all I would always hunt down your poor italian fleet in my bathtube, the british MedSea. There is plenty of allied fleet to end any dreams of the Duce before the Fall of France.

JerseyJohn: The Soviets had a completely different approach to researching these things. It was called spies. & Where as the Americans were above that sort of thing, if Werner von Braun were alive I'm sure he'd agree. Stop it, i can't stand it anymore!!! It was always a pleasure to read your posts, but till today I wasn't aware that you are obviously the little brother of Steve Martin (Oscar 75th).

So maybe Hubert hasn't got the equipment level thing wrong after all. lol nice point of view!

I am not sure if i found a bug or an unfinished thought. When you liberate Paris France comes back in play. But the "Free French"-units don't turn into "liberated French" units, they keep their "Free French"-UK level. In my opinion they should furthermore fight only for their blue French motherland, not for the UK. What do they want to free that they refuse to join "FREE FRANCE" again? Napoleons Empire?? Bad enough that Vichy refuse to join a free France, but when even "Free French"-units refuse to join a free France - mmh, sounds like this would be a good joke for Monty Python's Flying Circus. By the way: if "Free French"-units don't belong to France and don't participate from UK-research, they will always fight with sticks and stones. I stumbled upon this when i liberated France, conquered Vichy and entered Rome with a "Free French" corps. I guess Churchil still laughs in his grave that the UK got the loot from Italy...

You have to operate them first into North Africa. From there you can operate them into russia (if you control Iraq. I am not sure if you can operate airfleets via Norway/Sweden to Russia, but i would bet so.

Edwin P. I believe reading that at the end of WWII Germany sent a sub to Japan with Heavy water but it failed to reach Japan. I will confirm this. It was U-234, carrying 560 kg Uraniumoxide. This sub started its journey to Japan on 04/16/45 in Kristiansand/Norway and capitulated on 05/17/45 to the USS "Sutton" (sneaked & sliped away from the British Navy because all prefered to capitulate to the US). The sub reached Portsmouth, New Hampshire 05/17/45. Bad luck for Japan: Robert Oppenheimer built from the captured material "Little Boy", which hit Hiroshima (the US felt free do "deliver" what Japan ordered in Germany). Without the captured german Uraniumoxid the US would have had only one A-Bomb to drop on Japan... There are plenty of books written about this german sub and its delivery (Germany's Last Mission to Japan: The Failed Voyage of U-234 -Joseph M. Scalia). The german TV made a movie about this journey as well, but it is far away from the "Das Boot"-experience.

Edwin P: This germany didn't build an A-Bomb because a japanese Sub with korean uranium was sunk is something what i call a new story. I found an interesting webpage about the german a-bomb, try a look (and write back where you dicovered your "germany couldn't build the a-bomb because of s sunken jap-sub-tale"). http://www.thirdreich.net/German_A_Bomb.html [ March 22, 2003, 06:00 AM: Message edited by: xwormwood ]

H.J. von Arnim sorry, my mistake (oh stupid me, sob sob). I feel stupid now. Oh stupid me. You wrote "nach", not "aus". The shame, the shame. Greetings to glorious Vienna / Austria from a regretfull little german Beck's Bier consument.

no, no secrets. We just found out that we live in the same city, quite amusing

da sag ich nur: schönen Gruß aus Schwachhausen Sachen gibts ...

Thank you for the link. Is this a neo-fascist look-a-like-page? I jumped here and there and found some really scary statements there... [ March 20, 2003, 05:43 AM: Message edited by: xwormwood ]

Liam: Germany lost far to many subs at Gibraltar (I strongly recommend you the movie "Das Boot"). Transfering german subs in the medsea was costly and the gains were low compared to what these subs could have done in the atlantic. When looking back on what was achieved the whole operation was a failure. Germany had nearly no problems transfering ships from baltic to north sea because of the Kiel-Canal (aka Kaiser-Wilhelm-Kanal / Nord-Ostsee-Kanal). You'd be pounded on either side by artillery to smitherines... ...only if you were able to survive these endless minefields... [ March 19, 2003, 04:31 PM: Message edited by: xwormwood ]

Piumarcobaleno: "Messina and Reggio Calabria have good sea facilities; plus since there is an actual plan for a bridge several kilometers long between the mainland and the isle, that's much more of what u can say of Greece\Crete, no?" --> Yes, much more. But much less compared to --> England/France, Istanbul, Denmark. "Obviously u can be the "allknower" another time" --> Slow down, calm down, stay friendly, ok? --> If i am wrong with my opinins it is no --> problem for me to learn something new, --> but such comments aren't really helpful in --> a forum. Try to think about it ("...thinking --> is so important, Baldrick..."). JerseyJohn: Where did you found (can i get) the info about the heaviest concentration of anti-aircraft fire?

"so you can say that there are already big numbers of ships there" You can find these big numbers of ships in nearly every costal area in the world. Dover / Calais, Gibraltar / Morocco, Denmark / Norway, Greece / Crete, USA / Canada (2 little Islands in the atlantic, lol).

It is a shame that the important Kiel-Canal isn't on the map. Would have given the german player a sharper sword for his navy, and the british player couldn't prevent so easily the Kriegsmarine to enter the north sea. - As far as i know Sicily had no bridges to the italian mainland, but it is possible to move land units between italy and sicily. If you place an allied navy in the gap, land-movement becomes suddenly impossible for the axis player (and vice versa). Explanation: that is because aehm, errh, well, yes, mmhh, now then, now then, then now, errrhh... If it is landmovement, how can ships stop it? If it is no landmovement, why don't you have to follow the normal way: pay for ship transport, enter ship, sail ho, disembark and move only one further hex? - Why does Vichy survive the liberation of France (or better: Paris)??? It should surrender instantly and join the allied liberated French Mainland (no plunder, no troops, just reunion). Always somewhat annoying to liberate france, overrun the reich, slowly kick out the last of these heroic italians ("yes, we are still fighting, who needs the germans as long as he has plenty of pizza?") only to see that after the war there isn't a divided germany but a divided france. - Why can't the allied player liberate poland or the baltic states? Should be possible, even though it may be hard to achieve. Sorry for putting all this into one topic.

please delete topic, by my (?) mistake doubled, sorry. [ March 18, 2003, 11:21 AM: Message edited by: xwormwood ]

Bill: is disagree about granting Malta away. If there is still an italian sub out there it just moves to Gibralta or Cairo. So you lost Malta to the Axis and the 5-10 points are still going to the fishes in the MedSea. If the Axis comes with overwhelming airpower these planes won't be at the REAL frontlines, so the allied player gets the air superiorty in these regions. Alone the costs for OP movemtent to bring back the axis air units back north or east can be as worthy as a lost corps or air unit.

arby: Seems like i just misunderstood your point, sorry. John DiFool: A larger Atlantic is a solution, but a poor one in my opinion. They way SC handles subhunt is not acceptable. Battleship Taskforces were NEVER on subhunt, even cruisers wouldn't even have tried. If I would be King of SC-Land, i would order to mix the existing seawar with some new elements: Leave the warhships and carriers and transports on the existing map, so there can be fights between them. Next step: a second seazone map for strategical war. Here you can place subs and escorts. Depending of weather/season, research levels, nearby landbased airunits and/or carrier groups combat between these elements occour each round automaticly, lend-lease/sub-/ship-losses should be calculate by the programm. For every shipmovement on the real (old) map there could be a minimal percent-chance for losses due to subs (example: 1-92 % no losses, 93-98 % one strenght point, 99 % unit lost 50 % of its strenght, 100 % unit lost 75 % of its strenghts (*), (*) following a second chance for total loss: 1-80 % no further losses, 81 - 100 % complete loss of unit). Percantage could increase or fall by research levels. This way we could still fight with our beloved fleets and subs would / could do there bloody job against merchantships. ("... not yet, Kameraden, not yet...den Tipperary song, wenn ich bitten darf...").

Hussein

John di fool: have you ever play CLASH OF STEEL or STORM ACROSS EUROPE? Their seazone-system worked great. :cool: arby: the SC "war in the atlantic" is completly unhistoric. - Please explain your stats, because the way you wrote them they explain nearly nothing. There were much more (allied) countries who lost warship through subs, not only the US and UK. German SUB victories against warships (sunk/damaged): BB/BC: 2/3 CV: 5/2 CA/CL: 6/7 DD: 34/11 DE, frigats, corvets, sloops: 59/24 others: 42/? all: 148/47 German SUB victories against merchantships: 2831 = 14.315.964 tons In september 1939 Germany had 57 subs, and only 26 were able to attack in the atlantic. 26 divided in two counters = one counter represents 13 subs (in september 1941 Germany had 197 subs. So there should be at least 10 subs in the 1941 scenario :mad: ...). If the allied player isn't a complete and utter idiot he gets rid of them before dezember 1939. Do you think that this is historic? :eek:

I would seperate the tactical warfare from the strategic warfare. Keep the hex-system for battleships, carriers & troop transports / LCU s and invent the COS seazones for subs and escorts (i like the seabattles in SC more than the ones in COS). Or simply install an *improved* (not the original one) Navysystem like the one used in Strom across europe. Keep the airfleets as tactical air units and invent the Storm Across Europe airfleets for strategical bombing runs. These air units attacked not a single target but every part of the targetcountry which they could reach. Bombers and their escorts could be bought seperatly from the tactical airunits.

JerseyJohn: "...I don't know of anything that went on within all of Russia during Stalin's bloodbath that can even remotely be called a rebellion or insurrection..." as far as i know there were anti-soviet partisans in the ukraine (sorry, can't remember the english name of this country)who struggled for independency from the USSR. I have seen a documantation where these now old men said, that they received weapons and provisions from the retreating wehrmacht ("the enemy of my enemy...)". It seems that there were large regions near the rumanian border which couldn't be entered by soviet troops at night until the late forties. They lived in the forrests and mountains and had tunnelssystems (vietcong-like). --- "...He might exile them enmasse to Siberia, as he did even during the war to, I believe it was Uzbeks but I'm probably wrong..." many minorities were exiled during the war (not only to siberia): don kosaken, wolgadeutsche, people from the annexed baltic states and many many more.

JerseyJohn: Yes, option would do fine, but i fear about calling any suggestion (like this one) an option to turn off (in a forum like this, where no one even knows if there will be ever further updates or what exactly Huberts next game will be) is like letting it die right now and here. But anyway, i would really like to learn if there are some folks out here who at least know the boardgame "the great war in europe" (Command Game, "little monster").