Liam

Oh, and I remeber once a guy telling me something about how kind Belgium was. One of these Belgian Peaceful Extremists holier than now. Telling how awful America was an Imperial LOL Biggest Load of Crap I ever heard. Rwanda is the way it is because of Belgium. They seperated the two factions and made one more white than the other! So they had something grind their axes about. Over a million Rwandans died in the 90s due to Belgium! And it ain't over and that's one itty bitty country on the map. ROFL Everyone has an opinion.. That's fine.. That's what the Free World is about.

Yes, USA hasn't been all that helpful in places I feel it should've. It was my personal and dire opinion that during the first days of the Yugoslav breakup from Croatia all the way to Kosovo that something be done. Noone ever heeded my warnings and it was a vengeance of the Serbs on the rest of the States first for WW2, second for Real Estate. Sierra Leone and other such places are very difficult to police, takes a lot of peacekeepers. They're soooooo backwards and so Third World you cannot keep them together without stationing troops their 24-7 or having a Dictator. The People Must fight for themselves... At some point if people do not fight for themselves then the ole American saying how does it go, "Give me Liberty or give me death!" Heh, Frenchies loved us so much they would've married their Queen to our President around that Era.. Great Opposition to the UK Imperialism. Central South America, are still non-terrorist States, LOL. If you exclude the fact that Drug Kingpins and Dictators usually run half the countries down there. As far as giving Iran a Nuke? Lordy, have you lost your mind people. I hope the Nuke doesn't go off in your backyard, because if it does you'll eat those words! You better start waking up, someone will get ansy enough to push the button. We we're dumb during Horishima and Nagasaki, and those were infantile bombs. There are ones now that can wipe out Millions...And in an arsenal the World Isreal has 100-200 Nukes, some which are Russian... See! I personally think the UN should be doing it's job there in Russia but another failure IF the USA Isn't backing up the UN because our President isn't skilled enough "to do so," LOL... Then it's up to the Power of Western Europe to take some iniative or has that region gone to sleep and would rather sit on it's laurels and just let the World devour itself. Sounds like it from these postings. Personally if the World would've done that for them 60 years ago we wouldn't have this problem now! Iraq vould haben Swatikas, and Russia vould be Fritz Psycho but more stable than the ideologies expressed here as far as N.Korea and China and the rest of Asia. The Greater Japanese Empire ::Yawns:: USA should've just conquored S.America and Canada and dealt with the Nazis, you Euros act weak!

The bidding system is a little bit jaded. The Axis end up with two scenarios here. If they did a perfect France it's likely with luck UK and USA are in check and D-Day is impossible or a Norway, N.African sideshow...or even possiblt LC Rhine Death attempt... The Russians usually end up with enough MPPs to make manuevers which is very ahistorical. They can invade Turkey, Finland and Germany in some instances depending on the Western Front. Increasing War Readiness is one answer, I have another, how about Historical Entry for USSR With some extra Bonus Corps ONLY to the French and that's it. That way the Allies can hold France till July or Aug Latest. That way, Germany has to finish off Norway, Vichy maybe... They will likely have to for go Spain for Sweden and then hit Sweden later. They will have to focus like a beam on the MidEast and clean it up and a good UK Corps defense there can take awhile... Now with a much smaller bid for the Reds...They can't just decide to cookieCutter Turkey, Finland, Iraq themselves, they have to defend. Though likewise the Germans are just barely taking all their Minors giving the UK USA the time it needs to hit hard and hit fast. The Reds will be near falling but the UK Carriers and Fighters along with the USAF will be crack and be snapping the back of France and Germany.. Spain remaining neutral will even out the MPPs. Perhaps even a houserule no Invasion of Spain That would definitely cut down the MPP Imbalance... Lots of Ideas but I really look forward to installment II

LOL Iran.. Waltero, not quite the calibar. China, Russian Federation, EU, Eastern Asian Trade Empire...Perhaps a North South American United Axis... Who knows the future... We definitely will end up giving the Shi'ite majority the Black Gold if we leave... 10% of the World's oil to one of the most unstable and most extreme Goverments on the Planet next to N.Korea... Perhaps Nostradomus was right, the Red Turban?? Will come from Iran

First off, your UN PeaceKeepers are very worthwhile are they? What of Yugoslavia? What of Uganda? What of Indonesia? What of Cambodia? They suck... they are good for work detail on Cyprus and that's about that... Most of the time they do not get involved in the real action because the UN is spread too thin. The US Is the FirePower of World Action, you put your arms up but any real resistance and you would crack. The UN has no resolve without the USA behind it. If you don't see this by now you're very jaded. Who defeated the USSR and the Eastern Bloc? 90% the USA resources I'll assure you that much! Who is doing most of the arsekicking in the World, the USA? Of course... The UN debates... While the USA takes action, I myself would have acted on N.Korea and Iran itself, even our half witted President knew where the problem spots were and in 10 years one of them will have nukes that can reach our Mainland... I'm English too, are you? What was a majority of our Crack Troops before Battle of Britian would've commenced, do you think we would've put a good fight? Are you kidding, we'd of killed off more than the whole Red Army, French, Poles, etc... combined in the 1st month of the conflict. Cause we're tough... what the EC shows in Military terms in weakness that's it period The Germans even with little boys and old men was tougher than the French Army ROFL. That's all I have to say. Debate, argue, we are a Senate... We are openminded Men. This is our Realm for that. The World does what it will, despite us, perhaps not even as wise as us! Be FearFul of that! Young man! [ August 11, 2005, 06:05 PM: Message edited by: Liam ]

Oh and to the fellow on MiddleEastern Affairs Why do you think Americans are over their!!! Policing what the BLOODY EUROS don't want to Police a bunch of fanatical psychopaths that right now at this moment are educating their children to blow up Westerners and Christians alike...Their the Infidels! How do you think they recruit nonstop tens of thousands of Martyrs! Personally, I think we made an error my tax dollar is going to protecting your rear! You don't care about a stable MiddleEast, if we're not doing it right SEND YOUR OWN ADVISORS!!! That'd take the burden off our overburdened troops and leadership so we could possibly figure out some more intelligent and workable means to control these 16th century peoples if it is at all possible P.S. On the subject of Oil, turn off your lights, stop filling up your gas tank, do not goto work, do not sign on this computer or do anything at all. Be a Hermit in the Mountains then you can be self righteous on that subject. Osama's cash comes from us all... as does is weapons... without us he would be Desert Nomad as would be the rest of the MidEast and where they belong. They're not ready for the 21st century, apparently! They're trying to blow the World up in the Name of GOD! Not even America has the audacity to do such a thing LOL

The American Army did not just face little boys and old men! The Wermacht didn't manage the Bulge breakthrough with weak troops! Hitler had to keep his Manpower up any way he could because his world was closing in on him so he turned on his only loyal subjects left, his children. Women were taught how to fire AntiTank weapons too! I've seen the footage! The Americans actually would've faced some pretty crack elite panzer units in Normandy if not for some crafty deception. Also I wonder when Germany fought the Soviets, how many preteen boys and girls were fighting? They were pretty effective when they're told, if you do not kill that German<especially the one with all the shiny metals> Then he will eat your Grandma and Grandpa and all your younger brothers and sisters... when he conquors Stalingrad little Ivans! When things get desperate a nation requires desperate measures, children often do fight and in America during the Revolutionary War, often 15 year old boys fought and I'm not sure how much younger. Or During the Civil War... War is Hell Rommel and Patton probably were pretty equal in ability. I think Rommel more experienced and more the Gentleman. Though Patton more Ferocious and hell didn't Patton say we should keep on going to Moscow? He was right ! One Last comment on boy soldiers, I watched a film on a ineffective teengage SS Boy, he managed to shoot down a B-17 with his buddies. Just because they're little doesn't make them any less dangerous if fanatical and trained!

Hmmm, I think you need to brush up. Foreign influence PERIOD has caused to make these Camel DiscJockey's Billionares and given their radical Ideals a Place in Modern Western Society... Our schools give them the know how... See how we're thanked? Yeah we used to run their countries like little pawns and we still do, they're nothing more than our bishes and we conquor, delegate and milk them dry and offer them Western Toys and Greenback in exchange. Their really foolish people and will end up with Nill when their Oil Runs out... What do I have to say.. Honestly, Terrorism has been around long before Osama and look in Ireland, did the Irish ever win? Noway. Look at Isreal? It doesn't work, it only prolongs suffering. If these people want what they want they need to stop the radical sects and approach the table with some brains. Even Hitler had that Politically Saddam was just plain and stupid. He could've taken a portion of Kuwait easily. Osama didn't even manage to get a Nuke off, what a total failure for a Ultimate MasterMind. Weakling.. They're quite easy to make and before 9/11 and even after quite easy to deliver. If you have a Few Hundred Mill. I'm not argueing with you, I'm stating facts. Leave these people alone and let them kill themselves off like they were doing for eons, and just trade their oil for our 2nd rate weapons That's cruel but sad and true

A restbit would've been what they needed for certian. A few years to consolidate gains John and all the possbilities after that. Hell, the Germans would've been wise to stop right in their tracks and have themselves a vast chunk of Europe. Though as you say the persecution of the Slavs and other undesirables under the Nazi Regime was not going to make it easy to manage an Empire less you intended to kill off a large portion of it's population. The blunder with the harshness of the S.S. and the Nazi Alienation over it's conquored people as you pointed out many times was a foolish one. support the Reich needed most early on to keep Stalin at bey was Waffen troopers. Their factories were needed, their farming...Everything... German industry alone was not sufficient to cope with the Industrial might of the USA or Russia even without large tracts of Her European Real Estate. Hitler had no ambition though of actually reaching an attainable goal. His goals were far too lofty. Interesting point on the Jews, they were a misuse of resources. Any smart man would've seen a million skilled workers producing Amunitions, Aircraft Parts, etc... working hard for the Reich and for it's Future as a worthwhile investment to hold onto. If the hate ran so deep, a jewish state, satelite state should've been provided with German Governing... Foolishness... 50 Destroyers? I'm certian every last one of those puppies would've killed several thousand Germans making an amphibious Landing. People underestimate how valuable support ships are too, they're soo many uses

John, you fail to comprehend the power Hitler held over everyone. They trully believe he was the savior of Germany and when he would contracict his Generals (time and time again) they would listen, they had this belief that he knew things they could not envison, even to the very last days. That has nothing to do with their military planning. You can read in many books or see for your own eyes US and UK Generals praising the military minds of the Germans and stating that everytime they intercepted a German message with Hitler sending orders they would cheer knowing it was anothe dumb order being sent out. In short the only IF of WW2 is , we're luck Hitler was giving the orders because if not many battles would have meant destruction. Here is a good start. WW2 would have started around 43, while everyone else would still not building up their forces Germany would have been stacked with a military power that would dwarf what they had in 39. Hitler told his Generals yes but then changed his mind = you just lost the war. 2- Dunkirk, 340 000 dead if Hitler had not overturned his Generals who wanted to press on. They stopped for 2-3 days which gave the Allies time to rest and prepare defenses. 3- Mussolini told him he would not be ready for war until 43, Hitler said ok but turned around and did the opposite. Italy was easily defeated. 4- Stalingrad, Generals wanted to not bother with it and continue south for the oils and raw materials. Hitler did not want the city with the name of Stalin to stand, so they just fought for no reason. It was one error after the other. They are alot of what IF's as you say, but 90% of them are all what IF Hitler had let military decisions to his Generals. [/QB]</font>

I don't think they were 2 or 3 times the size of the United States, but at least the same size, for a while. You're right, Pino. All this talk about them not having good generals (they definitely had the best, to say otherwise shows a person is misinformed) or troops (once again, on the whole, they had the best, there's no doubt about that either) is a lot of nonsense. For the record, here's a map of the European theater, late summer 1942, minus Libya and Egypt. </font>

::smiles:: and we weren't allowed to sell armaments to a nation at war but how much valuable materials were traded with the UK? VS How much was traded with the Germans? and even if those were old, by the time the Nazis got into full gear anything would've helped. Sadly not enough was offered and I'm sure FDR would've given Planes, Tanks, Guns and Ships if he could've.

Insulting and Ignorant I see. French and British Colonial Interest created the situation that exists in the Middle East, had they not tampered with it and left it a Arab State as was desired after WW1 and the fall of the Ottoman Empire then the problems that exist today likely would not exist at all. What you really have are many divisions not respecting Ethnicity or Tribes. You've got Kurds, Sunnis, Shi'ites all in 1 country. The West divided the Oil not the People Properly..Thus, you've all these problems, and including the worst of it all millions of Jews in Isreal that the Colonials also helped along Now I admit after a certian point the USA become the 2nd Colonial Administrator along with the Reds to keep Balance in the MidEast during the Cold War, but the dye had been set already! Study before you insult next. I'm not an expert regarding Arab MiddleEastern Colonial Era but I know this much. The Sour taste for the West was founded after Britian's and France's division of the region and the desire by the Arabs for a Free Arab State was wizzed on after WW1. Things over there were not done properly now we're going in and cleaning up Evil Dictators after the fact and administrating people that are with modern weapons still living in the 16th century in some cases further back than that. Also WE DIDN'T HELP THE UK? Are you Gay or Drunk too? We gave the UK destroyers when after Dunkirk They would'd lost a valuable portion of the UK Fleet they couldn't replace had that not happened and Hitler would've pushed, the UK would've been vulnerable, far more than you understand! What was it 30 or 40 Destroyers? The UK did recieve aide in forms and later during '41 you cannot deny FDR went out of his way with the Lendlease act without Declaring War and not peeing off the US Radicals. [ August 04, 2005, 06:19 PM: Message edited by: Liam ]

Wow wise words Rambo. It seems that America is following us in our footsteps </font>

I've struck Down Johnny Rambo, 250 something bid I've struck Down HellRaiser, 250 something bid Yoda awaits my 88 inch light sabre, only man so far proven worthy to challenge my knowledge of the Force

John, you've a mind for history and well read too. Hitler, was of course not a true Original. He borrowed his ideas from other men, far more capable than himself of vision. Whether that vision was a bit twisted and maybe a bit, well hmmmm, how would you really put it, bitter. That I leave for the individual. He like many Germans felt jipped. Naturally the scapegoat, Jew.. Perfect setup... The real Power of the Nation was in it's High Command and it's very proffessional army, and you're right those men I have read again and again fought against Tyranny and didn't allow S.S. Racial Purifiers attached to their Armies.. They were some fine Generals, that accomplished some things that people just write off...Noone ever remarks much on the Eastern Front and the many victories they achieved vastly outnumbered even late in the war. Rommel notably, who did kill himself because he was indicated in the '44 plot to Hitler. He had the choice, Hero or dead family... That is the accepted History Channel Version and from what I've read of the man goes along with his character. He was Proud, The Wermacht was proud, and us, the USA had a mixed up vision on how to split Europe after WW1 and deal with PostWar Germany. We should've put our foot down with the French and Belgians who exacted a heavy toll on the Germans... Fairness, not blame and perhaps WW2 would've been avoided. Any way we all look at it, Germany in WW1 was jipped and backstabbed and her young men grew up took power and took revenge, falling short of their goals. That's not a very advanced way of looking at it, it's factual... You steal away large chunks of the Fatherland so they want it back... Was it rightfully German, I think it was... regardless now Germany is an impotent Power unwilling to ever involve herself again in a real conflict due to the carnage and loss of life.. Plus the fact of European evolution.. Fact is you cannot steal a man's pride People, you cannot push him down into the Gutter, he will rise and he will take his Nationilistic flag and burn you down. Especially if you let him do it pretty much without a single hinderance< LOL Pre WW2 German preparation that noone payed attention to> Churchill regularly addressed parliment about the fact that Germany was building up it's Arms, they ignored him. Had UK and France fully mobilized in 1936 and stopped all this BS German expanionism early on, half the war may have been avoided, maybe Stalin would've seen that Germany isn't such a big dude and these Westerners don't cave in so easy to Hitler's demands, I will not bother with any deals with him... There is so much ill fate here, WW1 lead to WW2 and I cannot even believe any of it. The West was quite pathetic, we should've stopped this man early. You don't let a man become so powerful. If a Man stands in front of you assembling a 45 Calibar gun are you going to stand there if he's spouting how much he wants to dominate the World and you're in his way? LOL Well, that's just useless ideoogical banter... I read that Manny did well pre-Kursk, he was well on his way to smashing through to the Sea of Azow?<sp?> Rommel, was never beaten personally as far as I know, he was absent having surgery in Germany when Patton arrived in N.Africa and JRambo is right, N.Africa cost more than it was worth, that extra Panzer Column and supplies could've probably did the Reds in by the end of '41.. Good thing that Il Duce got bailed out by Hitler and his foolish overstretched Empire that bought Stalin time. There are so many great battles, in WW2 it was an Epic Struggle, a Titanic one. The American Might was never fully realized. Had Stalin not been so successful the grunt of Death and Burden of Victory would've fallen on the only other true World Power.. USA We would've marched 10 million men through France to Conquor Berlin, probably via another route if neccessary we would've lost 2 or 3 million dead......maybe more.... as the Reds did, as we left a lot of the fighting to the Reds, hey well, Stalin definitely screwed over his own people in a way. To many DoubleDealings, but Manpower wasn't his concern, a few million lives was not a real value to him, what was was what Hitler wanted More a Greater Russia with a huge defensive Border stretching into Germany cutting Europe in Half which existed near 50 years

Actually not true... I do not blame Europe anymore than I blame Chamberlain or FDR and the Isolated Americans for WW2. Churchill was known Anti-Semite and half of Europe would've collaberated with the Nazis if they licked their boots... LOL What John says is correct, France, Norway, Belgium, Netherlands, Denmark, portions of the Eastern European Nations. I can go on and on and on... They contributed very well to the Waffen Units... Did they have options? Well, look at the reality, your kids are starving and your wife is too, so become a Nazi garantuee their safety and food and shelter for 'em. Simple isn't it? Do not join and beware! What is a Nazi anyways, there were plenty of American Nazis before they became unpopular. We probably have the largest amount of Neo Nazis in the world to this day. So we cannot point fingers, it's the great freedom of the USA to believe what you want and no matter how radical it is our Nation. You must learn to respect this as Europeans. We are a nation of Ideals and a Nation of Extremes... however we're not evil... Nazism was in essential fact in WW2 Germany an Evil Tool. Hitler used this, he could be an AntiChrist. He murdered Innocence for the sake of a Ideal that was beyond sick.. The Goal of a Greater Germany I do not disagree with, if I would've been the Chancellor of Germany I'd of damned well conquored Europe, but I would've done so under a Righteous Flag and I would've won! As I would left the General Staff to make decisions and I would've broken Europe into Acceptable Chunks of a New World Order.. Instead Europe is a divived little bish... Reds are broken and what's left? USA, United States of America. Hell, half our States wanted out at one time, our bloodiest war with 1 shot Self Breech loading Rifles. 600k dead! We wrote the book on trenchwar and WW1 We're all brothers and sisters, our fates are intertwined but the Power is nolonger in Europe.. It's still undivided, if joined that could change things possibly, but unlikely. the Next MasterPower Will be Asian IMO or Russian. Look at the Extreme and Psycho Ideals comming out of those Places. You needn't fear the USA, but you ignore the fact of what is truly dangerous again the World screws up and wait, just wait! We'll suffer for the mistakes of Fathers, and our sons will been pissing on our graves too about not stepping to bat and kicking ass when you could've! Don't even need guns for this just Help, political pressure, and Money... Greed my friends... that's what makes this world go round, when you get over that then you get over the ills of the planet and then we can really accomplish something I'm a 2nd Generation American on one side, I had Nazis I'm sure I don't know.. I'm half German distantly, I'm proud of all my heritage. I find it a shame the world doesn't realize that War, Genocide, insanity isn't just a part of the World as it always has been it is human nature. When cave man A bangs Caveman B over the head to steal his wife, Bam, there ya go... That's our mentality... We're a few thousands years outta the trees, evolved Monkeys. Read closely the History books Sorry if this sounds fully like Anarchy but noone accepts their wrongs, they just point fingers

Rommel was not a bad General. Patton wasn't a bad General. They were leaders, a lot of the job wasn't done by them it done by the General Staff and lower ranking officers. The Germans had an excellent officer Corp... Plain straight and simple... America stepped up to the challenge and by end of WW2 I would say surpassed any other nation with their Officer Corp cause the whole of the German one was killed off Generals are only part of the Leadership. Eisenhower wasn't that good Monty was overrated I have to admit Manny and Zhukov did some things that history cannot write off they were no Napoleons or Wellingtons though

Interesting game, read the after Barby highlights.. Seems as if HellRaiser <who is a big risk taker> caught some luck. He tries a lot of things people tend not to and I guess being newer helps Luck will kill you in this game, but given the Axis have the MPPs if they can hold their fronts in the West and also kick the Reds through and through should be over. I got very lucky vs HellRaiser in a very tough fight. Though I have to admit he should've waited He was facing Mega Axis Tech. I'll often invest in IT if I have no other place I feel neccessary to place chits and pray for a hit. If you get it as Axis operating and reinforcing those expensive and experienced units isn't so bad...

and a bit too much early aggression showing the snail defense is the best defense...unless your Rambo You came you saw you were annihilated, thankyou very much. Brits try aggressive French Defense, real great, but problems. I lost 3-4 armies, probably 2 tanks and I got a lot of time to prepare for what might be next. I took out all the Minors, I got Chits in before Fall of Paris. Germany had tech, when Barby took off, I'd already put a lot damage on the UK she couldn't fight me. Jets1, I just doubled and triped at full 5 chits, and 3 in for nearly 10-15 turns. Luck was in my favor along with 2-3 chits in AT, there ya go... Now he has caught up but he made an error he attacked Scando... I destroyed 1 carrier, 3 Western Allied Fighters, forced the Super powerful Red AF to retreat so he couldn't take Sweden and destroyed 1 American HQ, 3 or 4 American Armies that's that. The Reds held well on the ground, despite losing all armies 1 AF. They took back no ground only took Finland. They are strong and the only force left.... I own Europe, 3 to 2 nearly in units now and MPP advantage... time to surrender I took out most of the Allied Fleet, The Axis is larger now I'll just wait it out... and or conquor England... AT4, Jets4, LR2 or 3

heh i told you federer would US Open 85% chance IMO in the pocket A A, he loves NYC and hardcourt

furthermore some cost to retreating so it not a gamey feature! like MPPs deducted for the use of gasoline, rails, roads, bridges in a quick hurry. perhaps this even, if an army is on 1 side of a river and fighter attack is heavily success a chance of no retreat because briges are blown? then somewhat simulating reality?

It is not always a big morale booster for men to run from a fight especially if their #s outweight their enemies. Depending on some factors don't you think it should cost?

Monty VS Field Marshall Rommel<undefeated> The bid was high for the Allies, around 260-280 I took out France, lots of corps typical defense. A few wise crack hits knocked out 1 German Army 2 corps. Though also cost a few extra MPPs for the UK. I left Ireland before Carrier experience became too high... Cleaned out France then TCC... During this phaze I may have lost 1 corps and had a few ships damaged by clever Terif. He caught me in the Western Med, near Vichy but I caught him back later when he stuck around too long and killed of a nice experienced UK Battleship and damaged a few others. In the MidEast I cleaned house and he kept that a bit too long for my tastes... All the Minors that should be are mine. The Tech now has gone a little bonkers. There has been no major LW and RAF engagements this game. There has been a lot of research apparently and the UK has revealed they've jets 4. Top Secret what us Germans have in store for them Although I'm certian Terif has a pretty good idea that I'm pretty high tech as he is. We may see, Level 2 or 3 LR Jets, Level 4 Jets Pre-Barby here. Now that I'm moving in place to kill the Initial Reds off and prepare to take the Urals before Essen the Rhine falls we'll see! I know that Terif would like a bit more experience for his Carriers and the US readiness is far lower than it should be as so we're bought a few precious turns to do some MAJOR damage. Right now I'd say this game is a split and highly dependant on the errors between D-day and Barby and who pushes their pieces "All-In" at the wrong time. Likely a place where Terif has more experience but I'm not to be underestimated, I've been training I look forward to the DeathMatch Conclusion and will Reds with so much MPPs this game will be an immense challenge if I win...

The UK still has plus 1 AA hardwired in This bug is used extensively by the Allies during the Fall of France... However there is a counter to this... Since the Allies can only buy a Level 8 HQ, a Level 9 HQ does negate the effects some, especially if he picks up a bar early on killing French Armies. Just don't let the UK get too much experience pounding on LC Port