Terif

Yea, this was a very bloody war in the Atlantic...Royal Navy got sent merciless by the british admirality into the deadliest situations...the first 7 UK battleship fleets were sunk already in 1940 - fortunately for them they got a free french battleships so they didn´t have to solely trust in their cruisers...from which 2 of them and 2 carriers got also sunk . So until mid 1942 axis subs ruled the Atlantic, sinking every merchant ship they could find...protected by the axis surface fleet against remaining UK cruisers.. The british defence of Cassablanca and Gibraltar cost them not only halve of their fleet, but also all ground forces from Egypt - except for O´Connor that could set sail the turn before the escape routes got closed. Only in the air britain was still ruling with advanced aircraft level 3 and longrange 2 – so after the first encounter axis air got grounded and moved grumbling towards Russia... In Iraq the fate of the world finally got decided when the entire russian forces and their 7 tanks entered the country...Rommel with the heavy armies retreated immediately back towards Egypt while light forces defended Tehran and the port city of Iraq to delay the russian advance. Due to all russians beeing in Iraq, advance in central Russia was extremely fast without much resistance and in Spring 1942 already Rostov had been reached, Archangel conquered and the first pushes towards Ural could take place. But Iraq should be the final battlefield as german high command decided to build a huge mouse trap into the desert... – while Russia was busy with the last defenders in Iraq/Iran, Axis sent massive reinforcements to Beirut and Amman...von Bock not only brought 4 airfleets and 2 bombers with him, but also every man that could be spared from central Russia and all new built units...hiding out of sighting range of the russian air in caverns beneath the sand dunes...and so the russian forces approached...unaware of the whirlwind, sweeping towards them from the deep desert...in a single strike half of the russian tanks got destroyed by hidden 88mm cannons Rommel redesignating from anit-air to anti-tank weapons....russian armies buried in the sands of Syria....the survivors fled in panic the whole way back to Caucasus and Stalingrad, leaving behind all heavy equipment...every soldier only anxious to catch the last trains out of the death zone...only to be faced with destruction by german forces approaching Stalingrad and Caucasus from the other side, coming via Rostov...destroying fortification after fortification on their way to meet with Rommels forces entering Russia from Iraq...and so the war ended with the allied surrender one turn before they could have finally shaken each others hands .

Hmm, subs have only a defence value of 1 - so losses for the ship in port are minimal, expected loss 1 point and in the next turn the sub is very vulnerable to counterattacks from destroyers moving into that port and airstrikes even if the sub owner has naval superiority. I don´t see a real problem here with subs ramming into a port .

Hmm, the effect from SC2 was IMO sufficient with the readiness penalty for the surprised unit and the bonus for the surprising one. Now with defence bonuses applied this leads to the situation that a surprised unit may take the same damage as in SC2, but the surprising one usually will be undamaged when entrenched or in the right terrain - in result the surprised unit will usually be destroyed in the enemies turn with little or no losses for the former defender. Would be good if the defence bonus for surprising units could be removed, at least for land units - but even for naval units it is IMO not really necessary since the surprised unit will usually take a lot more damage than the defender which is penalty enough for getting surprised.

That in surprise encounters now the surprising unit gets its defensive bonuses is new in WaW - didn´t exist before in SC2. I agree that for games between veteran players it is no problem since they will do proper reconnaissance before moving forward so there will never be a surprise encounter as soon as the engineer/para thing is fixed. But for not so experienced/casual players or if players play more intuitively without extensive planning it can easily get pretty frustrating - one wrong move and unit dead without much damage for the enemy. Unnecessary frustration factor in my eyes and also increases turn length a lot since you have to be extra careful not to run into a surprise encounter. [ November 01, 2007, 07:49 AM: Message edited by: Terif ]

Yep, good solution

Yep, that would be a good fast solution for the para/engineer problem

Amphibs already have a much harder time than in SC2: they are a lot more expensive to build (IMO a bit too expensive now) and can be attacked in port - amphib operations are therefore already pretty unattractive and range is not high. With their only 4 tiles they already can´t invade anywhere if the enemy has ships nearby. Basing the relocation of UK capital on a percentage chance would be a pure roulette element (role a dice which side has won, depending on if the capital relocates or not...) - which I extremely dislike . The relocation is not the problem, only the change in WaW that Egypt can not be conquered any more (mainly because of the too narrow entrance and that sandstorms prevent air operations too often). Only this change (which hopefully gets changed back via patch when enough players complain ) makes it so attractive now to just abandon England and go to Egypt or other places. P.S.: engineer or more troops don´t help for the defence of England - England is simply not defendable during 1940 (which is why the capital needs to relocate). In WaW Axis start with naval superiority and the british fleet can´t protect the Island against an invasion until the necessary techs and new ships have been built. If they move out, they will only be sunk by a determined Axis player. [ November 01, 2007, 05:46 AM: Message edited by: Terif ]

There are 2 easy solutions for the engineer/Para problem: 1) no hiding any more when fortifying/preparing: As Sombra pointed out - in WaW they can now be protected against airstrikes (which was the reason invisibility got implemented in the first place) with anti-air units, so it is no longer really necessary to hide them. or (and) 2) get rid off the change that defence bonuses now apply in surprise contacts. This new feature is also a problem not only for the AI but also for the average player because here surprise contacts happen pretty often (especially since the new units only have a spotting range of 1) and with the new feature this means a dead unit for the attacker and nearly no losses for the defender. In the end this new feature may be more realistic, but causes also a lot of frustration and hinders the game flow as every uncautious move will be penalized by death (of the regarding unit). Relocating of the UK capital to Egypt is for game balance purpose (as Hyazinth pointed out) and also to simultae UK continuing to fight even when their home island is occupied - the commonwealth was spread over the whole world and would most probably not surrendered only because of England. P.S.: In WaW amphibs (not transports) can now be attacked in port by combat ships - this got already changed so invasions can be prevented when having naval superiority.

Well - we are on the same line here , I also would have prefered if Egypt would still be conquerable and open for battle - also the hidden engineers and even more: paratroopers preparing, are now wonder weapons because in surprise contact they are now protected by their defence bonuses (just put a preparing paratrooper in a fortification and the enemy has a big problem ). Most new things/changes in WaW are following what was requested in the forum and what there was considered the historical path - as those two things show, the old saying still applies: be careful what you wish for... We will see which things will be changed in the next patches - these 2 belong on my personal wish list at least (with compensation for UK of course if they no longer would get Middle East) .

Don´t worry - things changed in WaW and so strategies have to change too compared to SC2 . Egypt is one of the things I mentioned in an earlier post where the game now follows a more historical path: i.e. Axis usually can´t conquer it (so against an able opponent they better don´t try to – results only in the loss of many mpps ) - only if Allies do something stupid or Axis send pretty much every available unit into the desert they can... When I came into Beta I also opted to make Egypt conquerable - but how it is now is how it is intended. Ultimately Egypt and Middle East belonging to Allies is not really a bad thing, it only compensates for other changes that favour Axis - UK simply needs the additional mpps to build destroyers and research naval/anti-sub technologies to match the initially superior axis subs and fleet. Which is also recreating the historical battle of the Atlantic: Axis subs will rule the ocean during 1940 until UK has built enough destroyers and researched the necessary techs to be able to hunt them down - and for this it needs the ressources of Middle East .

Bombers attack the ressource, not the unit (so no de-entrenchment). They only have a 10% chance (increasing with each bomber tech level) to also hit the unit and de-entrench it. They only de-entrench if you target a unit in the open field. Fighters and Tac Bombers always de-entrench since they always target the unit first.

So far there is no new league planed since WaW is no stand alone game but an expansion. Fall Weiss is also balanced enough already and for all other scenarios I can only recommend to play mirror mode same as for SC2 games . Just add it as SC2 game and write behind the scenario WaW (e.g. if you played Fall Weiss in Weapons and Warfare report it as "Fall Weiss - WaW").

Yes, now in Summer 1943 Germany was able to concentrate every unit against Russia – all defenders from France already operated east to establish the trap of Gorky, only one single german corps had been left behind, everyone else was in Russia... . Together with every axis air having clear Summer weather, any russian offensive at that time was doomed. By waiting half a year until Western Allies had established a real second front and bad weather would have grounded the axis air, things would have looked much different. Then Axis would have been forced to operate a sizable force west and the odds for a russian offensive would have improved tremendously . In any case – very well played during the mid game by Jollyguy. His gameplay is improving with every war .

Yep, a very good and interesting game where Jollyguy played his Allies excellently till Summer 1943 – the moment where he lost control over his warmongering russian generals that following a coup d´etat lead his men into disaster . This war is a good example that you always have to adapt to the enemies strategy and depending on the actual situation on the battlefield have to change your plans if necessary in order to win the fight: Germany planed to follow a more historical path – giving priority to Poland which got conquered in 2 turns, sending the soldiers on their foots westwards in order to save ressources for operating and denying Allies increased production by delaying the assault against LowCountries. Also after France and Denmark no additional countries got attacked by Axis and instead Spain influenced diplomatically (intention was to force UK into countering it and hereby reducing allied ressources furthermore – but since it didn´t counter it, Spain joined instead). Africa was destined to be surrendered to Allies, both italian armies evacuated back to mainland Italy where engineers were heavily fortifying Sicily and the surounding of Rome to repell any potential allied landing on the italian boot. The intention of the powerful concentration of all axis forces against Russia instead of conquering Africa or other nations was to destroy the expected resistance with a hammer blow. In previous wars Jollyguy usually defended Kharkov and Leningrad-Moskow area heavily with large mass battles which were costly for both sides. This time the defenders should be overwhelmed and destroyed by an iron fist and with minimal losses for Axis while the west would be no real threat due to the missing war declarations and therefore low allied pre-Barbarossa income. But history should unfold differently....Russia adapted to the situation and couldn´t be lured into any battle...instead evading the approaching german forces every time before they could strike. Russia trading space for time to build up and also bring western Allies into battle. Germany getting denied the decissive victory in Russia, was now running low on supplies and war material while Allies were outproducing Axis 2:1 every turn. And so it was forced to change the planed strategy and look for other areas to strike against in order to gather the necessary ressources to feed its war machine. Consequently the offensive in Russia was put to a hold in Summer 1942 and defence lines established at Kharkov and Moskow to free up forces to be sent to new theatres – only one task group remained - pursuing the retreating Russians into the russian taiga around Gorky/Archangelsk to stop allied convoys. In Africa the first opportunity presented itself when after conquering Vichy Algeria and Tunisia Britain was unwilling to send more soldiers to Africa and even evacuated their forces from there as an italian bomber in Sicily could observe...after some scouting with the italian navy, Axis decided to despite the original plan now dispatch Rommel and his Afrika Korps into the desert. The desert fox liberated or conquered Africa from Cassablanca till Suez in record time and cleared the Mediterranean from all allied forces – german Oberkommando was excited about the unexpected assimilation of Africa after the original intention was giving it up to Allies . In June 1942 a british task force under O´Connor landed in Denmark, opening the Baltic for Royal Navy....in a heroic battle at the narrow street south of Copenhagen the german baltic Kriegsmarine lost 75% of its naval units, but in the end successfully repelled the intruders and reclaimed Baltic for Germany after Denmark got cleared by air and land forces from invaders. Also in June 1942 USA finally joined the war when Germany started claiming the smaller nations on continental Europe and integrating them into its empire...Sweden also got occupied in order to be able to liberate Norway from the allied oppressors. End of 1942 the consolidation of the Axis empire had been completed and troops from all over the world got sent back to Russia...preparing for the battle of Stalingrad. Russia again was not willing to make a stand and fight...probably because of watching the endless rows of german soldiers approaching and countless bombers and fighers preparing to unleash a firestorm....so they evacuated their fortifications behind the river at Rostov and retreated into Caucasus and east of Stalingrad – the city falling after a short fight. Unfortunately for Allies, in 1943 the russian generals were no longer willing watching deedless while Axis occupied more and more russian territory – especially since Allies were meanwhile around 2:1 superior in forces against Axis and western Allies successfully landed in Morocco, establishing their airbases in Africa and preparing the jump on the continent at Spain. And so the russian generals staged a coup d´etat in Spring 1943, overthrowing Jollyguys regime...the people on their side which were crying for revenge and the soldiers shouting loud hurrays while moving to the front, starting to run towards the enemy....throwing all caution to the winds. From the russian generals perspective the offensive against Gorky was not a bad idea since all german forces seemed to be concentrated around Stalingrad and marching against Caucasus with battles also east of Stalingrad around the Caspian Sea. But German high command was expecting such a move of the numerically far superior red army and meanwhile had prepared a gigantic trap around Gorky...sending secretly forces into the forests north of the city out of russian spotting range and also concentrating all available tanks south of the expected enemy offensive path while Gorky itself was only lightly defended by 2 armies and a corps. In June 1943 the russian main army approached, supported by 4 HQs – the german corps chosen to lure the enemy into the trap died after a heroic fight but achieved the goal with its sacrifice...drunken of their first victory against german forces, russian soldiers loose every control about themselves, moving forward in a mad rush, not noticing the german forces looming on their sides...slowly closing the bag behind them... ...and so on July 4th, 1943 the end of the war came completely unexpected for Allies – one day in the offensive and certain of victory, the next one complete and utter destruction of all hopes : In a swift pincer movement german forces moved in from north and south, destroying half a dozen russian heavy units in a single day, cutting of the russian forces that moved too far westwards into the trap and taking them prisoner...the russian generals were struck by horror and scared stiff when they watched their entire main forces ending up in smoke and beeing completely destroyed within a matter of days. Having large fortifications around the entrance into Urals, but no soldiers left to man them and after loosing Caucasus to a german task force having not enough ressources to rebuild them, Russia decided to surrender unconditionally before the last remaining units would have been destroyed. Without their Ally on the continent, UK and USA had no choice but to accept Axis domination over Europe and sign a peace treaty. And so the war ended in an Axis victory in Summer 1943 . War photograpies: June 1942 – UK invades Denmark and Northern Germany, minor nations still neutral – Allies beeing the aggressor so far: May 1943 – Axis forces concentrating for a Battle of Stalingrad which gets canceled when Russia retreats all forces from behind the river: German forces approaching Caucasus, battles around the Caspian Sea – russian tank that was cutt off last turn destroyed, the rest of the russian forces including a damaged air and HQ operated away in the allied turn: Russian offensive in the north – turning point of the war were the russian forces got completely destroyed in the encirclement battle of Gorky: [ October 25, 2007, 04:32 AM: Message edited by: Terif ]

There are a lot of additional scenarios included like Spanish Civil War, North Afrika, Kursk, D-Day, Battle for Russia, Battle for Stalingrad, Operation Market Garden and the Battle of the Bulge. So you can choose between shorter and longer scenarios . With the new units and features of WaW they create a much better historical/realistic feeling and are a lot of fun to play .

ETA: When it´s ready As Madmatt posted in the thread for pre-orders concerning release: "scheduled for the end of this month"

@Sombra: Yes, I came into the Beta team during the final stage to balance the multiplayer aspect (and especially scenario 1939 Fall Weiss) - which it is now IMHO . The emphasis of Weapons and Warfare and its main advantage is concerning AI/single player where it is definitely a big step forward and will most likely replace the original SC2. Also for modding and creating new/different scenarios it will be pretty much modders paradise . In multiplayer the expansion and the original SC2 complement each other instead of replacing: - WaW is much more detailed and rather about the operational level (where do I place my anti-air, artillery etc. to give fire support to the troops, where do I place my fighters to protect/intercept the bombers...) and having a historical order of events on the strategic level. Attacking the countries in pretty much historical order and following a historical path in general is now by far the most beneficial way for both sides. You can still depart from it, but usually only at high (longterm) costs. Battlefields are reduced and narrowed down due to the rail/road system and other changes which effectively eliminates batttles in certain areas (like Middle East). Experienced players won´t have that much strategical choices like in SC2. In WaW it is crucial to place your new fire-support units in the right tiles, building deep defence/offence systems – putting the new unit types to a good use - and you now have around twice as much units, which leads to a bit more micromanagement than in SC2. So when playing TCP you have to expect to need around 2-3 times more realtime to complete a game than in SC2. - Therefore SC2 for me personally still rules on the strategic level where it provides more options and possibilities than WaW. In general it has more freedom of strategical choices and at least for TCP is much easier/faster to play. So WaW is rightfully an expansion and not a stand alone game – both versions have a right to exist and complement each other. Since you get both in the bundle, in the end it depends on the personal preferences which one you prefer for multiplayer – they are pretty different - just try both . For single player it is no question: here I would choose WaW anytime .

1) They don´t get out - therefore you should only send one corps to conquer it and destroy the defender with air/carriers . 2) For operational movement the units need to have at least supply 5 (air = supply 3). Also you need a land connection (air = no connection necessary) to the city you want to operate them and this city has to have strength 5 or higher too.

In this game the order of events was pretty historical from 1939 till 1943 – not only in the first stage, but also towards the end : In July 1943 at pretty much exactly the historical date the italian campaign began with the allied invasion of Sicily. Not much later Italy itself got invaded and the italians signed an armistice - Germany executing „Operation Achse“, the seizure of northern and central Italy with german tanks and support troops. Yet the main theatre with 80% of all troops and every axis airplane concentrated in the area was still Russia where heavy figthings took place around Sevastopol in Spring 1943. Friedrich Paulus and his 6th german army meanwhile approached Stalingrad. And this is where the war was won in the end by neutralising the german forces in the area – german airfleets and bombers were busy supporting the ground troops day and night, but simply had not enough planes to break the russian defences despite many russian tanks destroyed by german divebombers. The Soviets however, had been building up massive forces on the flanks of Stalingrad. Ready to launch Operation Uranus, with twin attacks to be met behind the german frontline, encircling the 6th Army in Stalingrad. In the west France was still holding – with allied commando units destroying infrastructure and sabotaging enemy production centres behind the lines. Strategical bombing ultimately destroyed the axis fighting capabilities, forcing the surrender: all of Europe from Paris till Bukarest (Romania) beeing razed to the ground by US/UK and russian bombers...in the end Germany was still ruling over Europe from Bordeaux till Kharkov-Moskow-Finland. But the majority of the factories, mines and oil production had been destroyed and german war production dropped below 250 mpps/turn. Allies were outproducing Axis 3.5 : 1 – Axis stopped in front of Stalingrad, Italy lost....in contrary to history Axis recognized the defeat and surrendered before they got destroyed completely....and so the war ended already in 1943 .

First game with Liam Allies: German subs had their happy time and raided even directly in front of the US coast, looking for troop transports towards Europe in order to sink any reinforcements - they even could see the harbour lights of New York . Russia was also economically dead - german and italian bombers destroyed all 3 oilfields in Caucasus long before axis troops entered Stalingrad and approached the ressource rich area. In September 1942 Liams Allies surrendered unconditionally. ______________________ Mirror game with Liam Axis: Historical Axis approach - only Denmark, LC and France conquered before Barbarossa and later Yugoslavia in Europe. Rommel occupied Tunis and Vichy Algeria - in 1942 Montgomeries desert rats approached via El-Alamein and Tobruk from the east while US forces attacked Algeria. The last german forces surrendered in Tunisia end of 1942 - quite historical battle of Africa . Russia started with a clear disdvantage into Barbarossa by fighting without Infantry Weapons until November 41 and no Anti-Tank tech till today - so they built all available tanks instead of soft units - it took till July 1942 for Russia to finally also reach IW 3 and even the battlefield. Encouraged by their technical and numerical superiority due to concentrating all forces against Russia, Axis started a full frontal assault against the fortress Kharkov and its mines. And so the largest battle of this war unfolded around Kharkov mid/end of 1942 as Liam showed in his screenshots - the bloodiest battle the world has seen in a long time...: You see the 23 german land units in Liams second screenshot ? They are all dead now...none of them survived the battle - including the paratrooper that jumped into Voronezh and conquered it for one turn before the city got liberated...similar on the russian side...both nations fought till the last drop of blood in this death zone...every single german and russian tank got destroyed at one point before new tanks arrived from the production queue as well as all corps and armies present... ...at the end of the battle 26 german units were destroyed, the same amount on the russian side...only the airunits survived the meatgrinder...8 of them are left on Axis side, only 5 new built german land units are still alive in the area...Russia also nearly had only its 5 airunits left after the battle (among them 2 bombers that destroyed romanian oilfield and capital completely during the summer turns) and now in Winter 1942 finally retreated back behind the rivers at Voronezh and Rostov. [ October 08, 2007, 08:03 AM: Message edited by: Terif ]

Sealion is in deed only a real option if Allies go berserk somewhere else on the map - like your Allies have a "slight" tendency to do...and what happened when you got sealioned . In any case Axis can always conquer the british island if they really want to and are willing to use/sacrifice the necessary ressources - but the defenders of UK can make it that expensive and time consuming for them so Axis will have already lost before they have the isle under their control .

No need for memory - I still have the saves...

Np - just send an e-mail when you are ready for battle. For PBEM there is always time .

You already lost it in earlier games when I sealioned your Allies . But England is not important - only if Alexandria falls too. Otherwise Sealion is more of a disadvantage for Axis, at least if Allies use the right defence tactics on their isle .

Allies feel quite comfortable in Alexandria and Africa - which belongs to them from Cassablanca till Tehran Conquering England is not the problem for Axis, but coping with the effects - Russia and USA are now extremely strong and even UK has 200mpps/turn income . At the moment there are 2 german HQs, 2 tanks, paratroopers, 3 armies and several corps busy to conquer the rest of the island...Edinburgh still holding now in April 1941 - will probably fall next turn but binding all those troops there was worth it. In Norway we have the first airbattles, same around Sicily where another german HQ with airsupport just appeared.