Nippy

Where's the 1-800 number? 1-800-PTRDownage Heck, the 14.5mm round still lives on today in the HMGS mounted in the early BRT and BRDM series. Ah yes, Battlefield.ru. I so love that site. P.S. Sh*ties4th and Slobergnome, couldn't you fellows manage at least one turn before gorging yourself on Freedom Fries and cheap beer. :mad: (Unless you guys live in Europe, in which case you have even less of an excuse to withhold turns...maggots. :mad: )

CM:BO - I have to go with the little Hetzer. It's cute as a bug and has a lot better survival rate on the west front. Then again, that H39 is just so lovable too. CM:BB - ISU-122. Tames most Uber-Kitties and knocks buildings flat. Also, I always like the look of the late model BT-7s. It's much more pleasing to the eye than the T-26.

Oh yeah, I brought a whole rifle battalion to this little party! And you get a PTRD platoon with that. </font>

No problem, map is on the way to you. P.S. Your PTRD teams really suck! :mad: :mad: :mad:

Well now, my mailbox seems to be filled to the brim with a festering heap of failure: Robohn - Gee, those were nice new tanks. Hope they like their new 75mm ventalation holes. Shosties - Went the cheap route with his forces and now flooding my front lines with hords of Russian conscripts. The gamey bastage is using real world tacitcs. :mad: P.S. That SU-76 blowed up real good though... P.S.S On a serious note, thanks for the concern Dave H, but the problems I have will be with me till the day I die*. Heck, seems like everybody I know has some rather bad medical probems. *When the first words out of the Doctor's mouth are "Whoa", you know you have problems.

Time to bump this Cheery/Cherry thread back to the top. 13 to 0

Well, to his credit, Axe2121 did manage to gun damage one OT-130. Anyway, I've opened up the mission the mission editor to get a better look at the forces and map. And I've come up with a few suggestions. - As Dave H mentioned, the German side needs a road through the woods to the NE to allow their tanks to get LOS on the entry point for Russian reinforments that appear west of town. (However, Axehandle, this doesn't let you off the hook. A single PZIVH or the JagdPanther you threw into urban meat grinder could have dispatched the SU-152s with ease.) - Replace the standard 76.2mm and 75mm FO with radio carring ones and give them a Jeep/Kubelwagon to ride around in. Moving them on foot was a horrid pain with the slopes and thick woods around. - The River crossing could use a deep ford or two to the east of the VL. Once I had the crossing locked up, there was no way that Axe could get by and I never had to worry about flanking attacks. - Also, in the map editor you might want to replace the "Raod through forest" tiles with just a "road" one. At the tank killing ground at the river crossing, near the end of the game, if I had wanted to keep pressing the attack, I would of had to have pushed a dead Brummbar half way to Berlin to get by there. - Just an odd quesition. But what about Sewer movement for both sides? Was that ever considered? Good battle, but in the end, Asshatdoubledunce provided the most entertaining moments. Sending those JagdPathers to their doom. The unsupported Brummbar that was wasted by the tank hunter team. And who could forget the entire rifle platoon playing in the street when that OT-34 moved up.

Game Version: 1.03 May 1945 Predesigned Scenario - Nippy vs. Axe2121 Dawn/Clear/Very Dry Ground. Mission: Meeting Engagement Map and Battle: "Cherry Waffles" Custom Map and Battle by SoddBall Points: N/A Rarity: N/A Number of Turns – 32 with fixed ending. Enemy Force Disposition – A Germany force of unknown quality and quality, since Soddball made the battle, God only knows what will show up Soviet OOB (Most Reg with a few Vets) Infantry and Support X2 Sharpshooters X2 Tank Hunter Teams X1 PTRS team X1 Rifle Company 43' (3 Platoons) X3 85mm AA guns (HE rounds only) X1 152mm Spotter X1 76.2mm Spotter Tanks and other vehicles X1 ISU-152 Platoon (2 tanks with no AP rounds) X1 Platoon OT-34 X1 Platoon T-34/85 Deployment notes: The map itself is a 1000m X 1000m square with trees around most of the borders, a river that runs through from the NW corner to the SE corner dissects the map into two equal halves, and a small city in the NW corner of the map. The center of the map is wide open, except for a single Church and a small VL near a river crossing that is surrounded by trees. Each player must attack either North (Soviets) or South (Germans). I shifted most of the units around a bit and tried to get the Artillery observers a better LOS by placing them in a few tall buildings. Other Notes: There was no briefing with the mission, but I imagine there will be re-enforcements. *Time to see just how much pain that ale swilling Brit can dish out to the both of us.* Turn #1 Order Phase – 85mm AA guns have been ordered to hide. The ISU-152s are going to try and get into a position to lay some fire into the town and cover the OT-34s. The snipers, thanks to their low experience level, are going to be used as forward scouts only. The T-34/85s and their infantry escort will try to take a river crossing on the Eastern side of the map. The 152mm spotter will shift position to a better location and target the NE most VL and hill. Note: I tested the time. It takes 5 minutes to call down fire with the 152mm spotter. Turn #1 Action Phase – Well that was quick! A SP gun, marked as a Wespe of all things, has showed up at the eastern center part of the map and taken a few pot shots at one of the advancing T-34/85s. Thanks to some cover arc commands, 2 85mm AA guns, and a PTRS team are about to bring it under fire. However, an (?) infantry team is currently riding on the faux-Wespe, so I can only imagine what it is. The ISU-152s and T-34/76s have yet to run into trouble. However, I still want to flatten most of that town before I go into it. I don't feel like having to go house to house in all those multi-story buildings. Too many chances for an ambush on my armor. Turn #2 Order Phase – The 76.2mm Spotter will drop a short burst on the SP gun, as it had infantry riding on it, I imagine there are other infantry groups around the SP gun as well. The HQ T-34/85 will be redirected to support the east most 85mm AA gun in the event that the AA guns can't take out that SP gun. The other T-34/85s and their riding infantry will create a bridge head on the north side of the riving bank and hold there for a while till other units catch up. The T-34/85s will setup to keyhole any armor that comes down the bridge while a tank hunter team and an infantry platoon cross to the other side. The ISUs and T-34 FTs are rather confined in the forests and it's a bit hard to move them around. Still, I'm going to risk moving the ISUs forward first, as the T-34s, with their AP rounds and FTs are of more tactical value. My main fear is that there are AT guns covering the mouth of the forest. The 152mm spotter should be in position by the end of next turn. Turn #2 Action Phase – 2 of the 85mm AA guns were lost while it slugging it out with several enemy AT guns on the other side of the map, along with a STUG(?), a few infantry contacts, and the mystery SP Gun. Ironically the ISUs and their scouts didn't run into a darn thing and are doing just fine. Also the 152mm spotter is in position and the 76.2mm spotter's timer is now a 3 minutes. Turn #3 Order Phase – The HQ T-34/85 is being redirected to the east bridge head to set up key hole positions for enemy tanks. The other T-34/85s are already in position. The infantry is moving across the ford to setup ambush positions along with a RPG Grenade armed tank hunter team. The third 85mm AA gun will be given a cover arc command on suspected enemy AT gun positions. The visible AT gun will currently be fired on by the PTRS team and a Sniper. Payback on the enemy guns (Axe2121 was kind enough to boast that they are 88s) will come in the form of an ISU-152 with a force fire command on the last known location of one of them. The other gun just so happens to be sitting right under the 76.2mm strike. The 152mm spotter will drop his ammo right on the tree line of the NE hill and VL. The other ISU will move up along another road in the forest to support while infantry scouts (read: Sniper and tank hunters) head towards town. Turn #3 Action Phase – Not much happened here. The HQ T-34/85 is moving out to join the rest of the tanks while the other units continue to set up in ambush positions. And not a moment too soon as a STUG(?) is rolling towards the river ford. If it comes into LOS of any T-34/85, it will be dead at such close range as all the T-34/85s are packing Tungsten rounds. An ISU has brought an enemy gun position under fire. The first two rounds missed, but the gunner is correcting and will fire again in the nest turn. Infantry scouts left the safety of the tree line just as the turn ended. Turn #4 Order Phase – I'm still tweaking out the ambush at the river crossing. Infantry is in position to protect the tank hunter team, but the T-34/85s should kill any enemy tanks that get too close. The 76.mm Spotter just hit the 2 minute mark and 152mm is a 5 minutes. Most of my forces are going to stay put at the moment, barring any artillery strikes. I want to force the enemy to commit and reveal his forces first. Turn #4 Action Phase – T-34/85s and most of the infantry are in position. However, an infantry squad was somehow able to leap off a T-34 going +30 MPH. The mystery SP gun turns out to be some type of STUG…correction, some type of "immobilized" STUG that isn't aimed at anything important. The other Stug is plodding forward without any infantry support. The ISU got a nice area hit on a suspected enemy AT gun. Also a PZIV(?) has showed up at the north end of the town. Turn #5 Order Phase – Reinforcements have arrived at the NW end of the map right next to town. Forces include: (All Vet) X2 DP LMG X1 Pioneer Platoon X2 Tank Hunter Team (1 AT grenade/1 Molotov) X3 Flamethrower X1 Company HQ (B Company) Most of the above mentioned group shall charge into town with a few support weapons holding up the rear. Once they gain a foot hold in the town and scout for enemy HMGs and armor, I'll try to move the T-34 FTs up. Meanwhile at the bridgehead most of the troops are good to go. The rifle platoon that fell off the tank will now hold up the rear instead. If Soddball dropped my reinforcements behind enemy lines, chances are some enemy troops will show up in my rear area as well. On that note, the 3rd T-34/85 will cover the rear of the first to tanks who have key holed the river crossing. As for the city, a rifle platoon will make a run for the river crossing to the south of the town. There are some trees and brush there that should provide cover. An ISU and the last surviving 85mm AA gun will provide support for them. I've used some command delays so that both forces will go charging in at the same time. Turn #5 Action Phase – Looks like the enemy got reinforcements as well. 3 PZIIINs with infantry riding on back are advancing towards the eastern bridge head. More infantry units can be seen following up behind them on foot. It should be noted that the 76.2mm spotter has 23 seconds left on his timer. A nice strike should be called down on that infantry in the next action phase. An entire infantry platoon appeared at the north end of town and is moving out in mass. Also, at least 3 enemy tanks, PZIV(?), were seen moving into the eastern edge of town. My own infantry units have a foothold in the town and are waiting for support weapons to show up. The infantry platoon coming up from the south has yet to hit any trouble. With some luck, they will be able to catch the enemy forces in town in a pincer movement. Turn #6 Order Phase – More reinforcements showed up near the SW VL: (All Regular) X1 Rifle Platoon X1 DsHK HMG X1 Jeep The 12.7mm HMG will be used to support the attack in the town. The infantry will take up defensive positions around the VL and will be committed to the battle later. At the river crossing the PZIIIs continue to roll forward. The tank hunter team is now hiding and has a cover arc command on the road. The T-34/85s and the other infantry are also ready for the attack. As for in town, the troops will be setup around one of the two VLs. South of town the infantry is still trying to move forward and get into the southern edge of the city. With the enemy armor now moving into town, I have to risk moving some of the T-34 FTs up to support the pioneer platoon. Turn #6 Action Phase – A sniper have managed to button up a few enemy tanks as they move towards the river crossing to the SE. An enemy artillery strike has also begun to land in the area, but is thankfully landing nowhere near my forces. The 76.2mm spotter has begun to fire rounds at his assigned target. More enemy tanks and troops continue to pour into the north end of the city. My forces are in good defensive positions and will be ready for the coming German Counter Attack. Also the T-34 FT I sent forward made it safe and sound. Turn #7 Order Phase – I've decided to reinforce the SE river crossing with the spare infantry platoon I received last turn. I've noticed a good number of infantry contacts there too so I imagine they could use the help. Things are about to get very interesting at the city to the NW. I've ordered the T-34 FTs (and the infantry riding them) to move up into the city itself. The infantry riding the FTs will later make the bold move of taking the bridge to the north. Combine that with the other troops to the south of town that will enter it in the next few turns, and the troops I have west of town, and the Germans should end up in a bad position. However, all that armor he has there does worry me. The 85mm AA and an ISU are about to take a potshot at said armor. The 12.7mm HMG has been ordered to setup next to and ISU overlooking the town. If those 88s make an appearance again it will help my sniper teams in suppressing them. Turn #7 Action Phase – Enemy tanks continue to roll towards the river crossing while an artillery strike bombards some empty woods. The infantry reinforcements I sent are on their way, but are moving rather slowly on foot. In town a firefight has broken out between my troops and the enemy. One enemy squad was eliminated with more of them taking losses. The T-34 FTs made it safe and sound, but so did some enemy tanks. An ISU did get some pot shots in at enemy infantry and tanks crossing the bridge. Turn #8 Order Phase – Another set of reinforcements has shown up: X1 (Regular) OT-130 Platoon Since a cleverly place swamp prevents tanks from crossing the river south of the city. The newly arrived OT-130s will drive around the edge of the city to back up the infantry platoon that is trying to cross the river there. At the SE river crossing I've ordered the PTRS team to fire at the immobilized STUG. I'm going to use the now freed up jeep to ferry what squads it can to the crossing. It should speed up their movement a bit. I'm also "walking" the 152mm spotter closer to the enemy forces that are moving south. At the city, I've had to change my plans a bit. I wanted to try and take the bridge to the north and capture it, which would trap his forces in town. However, a tank now covers that approach. Instead, the tanks riding on the T-34 FTs will flank south around town and link up with the forces moving up from the south. To help support them the 12.7mm HMG will be moved closer to the edge of the woods to get it better LOS on town. An ISU is also going to shift position a bit to try and get more LOS on the town and maybe even that immobilized STUG(?) Note: The enemy also received more units this turn as well. Several armored cars showed up north of town. They are now going to be brought under fire by an ISU and the last 85mm AA gun. Turn #8 Action Phase – Not much is changing at the SE river crossing. The Artillery strike has stopped and the enemy tanks are still moving forward. Things are bit of a different case in the city. Enemy armor including PZIVs and FT halftracks have entered the city and are beginning to engage my infantry. Also the 85mm AA gun and ISU not only failed to kill any armored units, but the 85mm AA was taken out by an 88mm Flak as well. The 88mm Flak also stopped my infantry from crossing the river south of the city. Turn #9 Order Phase – SE riving crossing is ready for the attack, and more infantry support is on the way. The 152mm Spotter is switching his aim to that 88mm flak, as is the 12.7mm HMG, a sniper, and an ISU. In town itself a building with my troops in it has caught fire. I'm going to have them fall back a bit while more of my tanks move up to support them. The OT-130s and infantry will keep trying to flank around the town. Turn #9 Action Phase – The enemy seems to have a bit of a traffic jam at the river crossing. 3 STUGs are one corner away from getting keyholed by my T-34/85s. However, one of my ISUs developed a case of CSTS (Cowardly Soviet Tank Syndrome) and backed off from the 88mm Flak. Thankfully, the 12.7mm managed to get setup and had suppressed the gun by the end of the turn. The fighting in the city gets more desperate and more enemy armor pours in from the north. My own T-34 FTs are in position to prevent the armor from going any farther. My OT-130s and the infantry platoon are moving along the edge of the city with few problems. Turn #10 Order Phase – As much as I would like to assault the STUGs at the river crossing, it's just too dangerous. Hiding infantry and the tank hunter team now have cover arc orders and will await the inevitable assault. I'm moving the sniper to a better position, where I hope he can get some more shots off at the enemy STUGs. I'm also moving the 76.2mm spotter up next the PTRS team. When it gets there, it will have a nice LOS on the force attacking the river crossing. At the city, the 152mm spotter is staying put and will soon drop some 152mm loving on that 88mm Flak. The 12.7mm HMG is doing a nice job of suppressing it and an ISU will again move up and try to take a shot at it. With the 88 suppressed, I'm moving the rest of that infantry up from the south, I've also brought in a company HQ to help rally a few panicked squads. In the city both side's tanks continue to jockey for better positions while still being cautious of enemy infantry. I'm a bit worried about the OT-134s as they lack any main gun. The ISU that is pulling over watch for them has good LOS into parts of town, but not the greatest AT capacity. Turn #10 Action Phase – Wow. When it rains it pours. German tanks started their assault on the SE river crossing by charging a Brummbar towards the ford. After being hail fired by all three T-34/85s, it was immobilized by my Tank hunter team. Enemy infantry are not far behind and will soon be engaged by my own troops. In the city more armored and infantry units are arriving from the north and are now under fire from an ISU. Enemy units in town are trying to move south and close up the river crossing there. A T-34 FT now covers the north bridge. A movement error has caused another T-34 FT to show its ass to a PZIV. Turn #11 Order Phase – I'm going to move the tank hunter team to try and take out another enemy tank while the T-34/85s continue to hail fire the Brummbar. Friendly infantry is moving up to support the tank hunter team and protect them from enemy infantry. The second rifle squad is slowly marching their way to them. In the city, I'm going to try and save the turned around T-34 FT. He's got a PZIV behind him and a FT HT that hasn't seen him yet. He's going to target the PZIV and run like hell. I've given the ISUs cover arc commands to cover the city. The OT-130s are almost in position and I have them placed in spots that should allow them to roast any enemy armored units that come along. Turn #11 Action Phase – The Brummbar brewed up from an RPG-43 hit, the infantry tailing along behind it walked into an ambush, and the other enemy tanks are backing off. In the city luck was on my side this turn, as the T-34 FT with its ass sticking out managed to make it to safety after being fired on twice by a PZIV. A tank hunter team (Molotov equipped) wasn't so lucky and failed to destroy a PZIV they had snuck up on. That cursed 88mm Flak made another appearance and has again slowed up the crossing of the river south of town. However, revenge came in the form of a 152mm Artillery strike 30 seconds into the turn. Turn #12 Order Phase – Another set of reinforcements. (All Regular) X2 M5 Halftrack X2 Flame Thrower Team. X1 Pioneer Platoon X2 DP LMG There has been a slight change in plan. The reinforcements will be used to take the river crossing south of town while the infantry coming up from the south will move out to cover the right flank. They will hold the small peasant shacks to the east of town. The M5 HTs will have back to provide support where it is needed. As a large enemy infantry concentration is in the NW part of town and the German tanks there are forcing me back. At the SE river crossing I'm gong to send a T-34/85 forward to help support the infantry. The other two tanks will stay back and cover him. The tank hunter team will now try to rush a second tank, provided it stands still long enough. The other infantry units are on their way, but are moving slowly. I'm moving one rifle platoon to the south central part of town. The troops trying to cross the river keep getting rattled by that 88mm Flak. Thankfully that 88 will now get a solid minute of 152mm fire from the FO. Also, the T-34 FT that managed to escape the PZIV is now being moved to the south side of town as well. If I can get it behind the German tanks, it should have a field day. Note: That 76.2mm spotter is walking "very" slowly to his new position. Turn #12 Action Phase – Looks like the tanks at the river crossing are of the Flame Throwing variety. The tank hunter team was unable to get close enough before being killed. Another artillery barrage has stated to land exactly on the river ford itself. It posses no danger to my troops, but did managed to kill the commander of a T-34/85. At the city I can see more enemy reinforcements showing up and crossing the bridge. Thankfully, I can bring the bridge under fire with a T-34 FT. At the south end of the city, the rattled infantry platoon has gotten its act together and is moving out. Other infantry units and the M5s are moving east as well. Side note: That 88mm Flak that was pestering me died a horrible death at the hands of the 152mm FO. Turn #13 Order Phase – Still trying to being the infantry up to that river crossing. With the FTs around, I'm going to pull my infantry away into the forest until they don't have LOS on the road. The T-34/85s should be able to hold them up. The 152mm FO will now drop some shells in the VL at the NE corner of the map. In the city I'm going to keep working my way east and try to encircle him. Also, the T-34 FT has a cover arc order that should catch anything trying to cross the bridge. An RPG-42 equipped tank hunter team has going to be reassigned to the infantry in the se of the city, as they lack any type of real AT capacity like flame throwers or satchel charges and the T-34 FT looks like it will be a while getting to them. Turn #13 Action Phase – A PZIII FT is throwing a temper tantrum. For two turns it has been area firing onto empty woods in a vain attempt to get at my infantry. Another PZIII(?) is reversing out of the woods. The poor boys south of town just can't win. A heavy caliber (150mm I think) artillery strike is hitting the river ford south of town. However, the rest of the turn went my way. An ISU over watching the bridge took out an enemy HT and killed some crew members on another. Yet another HT was killed by a T-34 FT when it tried to flank around the west end of town. Note: Judging by how erratic the rounds are landing, the 150mm(?) strike look to have been launched without LOS. By the sound I can tell it isn't a rocket strike, so hopefully he is firing blind. Turn #14 Order Phase – More reinforcements have arrived. (All Regular) X2 SU-100 Why, oh why does this worry me? These two little fellows showed up at the SW VL. I'm going hold them in reserve for the moment. Although I think one of them can get a shot at that immobilized STUG(?) At the river crossing I'm going to stand my ground for now. The reinforcements walking on foot are taking their time getting there. In the city both sides are still trying to jockey for a better position. I can see the German now trying to move south towards the other VL in the city. The OT-130s should prevent them from getting close and their infantry backup will deal with the rest. The M5s are being sent around the edge of the city to backup the southern river crossing. Since the infantry is taking forever, I figure I better get some firepower there quick. Turn #14 Action Phase – His troops are area firing at everything in LOS. The immobilized STUG(?) is taking pot shots at the infantry trying to cross some open ground and two PZIII FTs are roasting huge sections of empty forest. On the plus side, near the end of the turn, an SU-100 was able to get LOS on the immobilized STUG(?) and will hopefully take it out next turn. In the city, more area fire madness as a HT FT roasts a building I left 3 turns ago. I can see more German infantry trying to flank around to the east end of town. More of that huge artillery strike landed, but no-where near me. Turn #15 Order Phase – I'm going to re-deploy the 2nd SU-100 so it can also fire on that STUG(?) which is harassing my support infantry. At the river crossing I'm going to sit tight and wait it out. With any luck the FT tanks will be out of ammo if they keep area firing like that. The 76.mm spotter is now in position and is calling fire down on some enemy infantry I saw advancing NE VL. As for in town, I'm going to start pressing north. An OT-130 has been given the order to advance, where it will hopefully have LOS on a MG armed HT and a church full of infantry. A pioneer squad is about to do recon in a building to the north of the platoon's current position. An ISU and a T-34 are about to fire on a poor infantry squad moving across the north bridge. The M5s will flank around to the east end of town to stop any enemy flank attacks. The T-34 FT on the way to support the south side of town is almost there. Turn #15 Action Phase – "Waaah! Waaaah! I can't hit anything!" The PZIII FTs spend yet another turn roasting empty woods. The SU-100s have failed to destroy that immobilized STUG(?) despite numerous hits. My guess is that is was a second Brummbar. Infantry support is now proceeding unmolested. Unfortunately, a mystery tank appeared at the NE VL and was seen moving south at full speed. I imagine it's a heavy as I didn't get the SU-100s for nothing. In town, Axe2121 decided to call down more of that blind heavy artillery. Rounds landed on both of our troops. A German HT FT was roasted be a Russian FT team as it tried to move west. The recon element of the pioneer platoon made it safe and sound without seeing any resistance. However, a PZIV was seen moving south towards the OT-130s. The T-34 FT is in position to back up the weaker tanks and M5s. Turn #16 Order Phase – The boys at the river crossing will sit tight, as I expect some Uber-tanks to roll their way. With that, I've given both SU-100s cover arc orders for the road that avoid the immobilized STUG(?). No point in wasting ammo. However, one T-34/85 will be shifted around a bit in hopes of getting a chance to take out some enemy tanks. As this tank has neither tungsten ammo or a commander (killed by artillery), I can handle the loss. The other tanks will stay back. I'm sending a pioneer platoon into the center of the city from the south. With any luck they will be able to ambush some enemy armor. A sniper also has a shot at a PZIV crew that has stuck its head out. Turn #16 Action Phase – My redeployment of the T-34/85 paid off. It got in a singe hull penetration on a PZIII FT (which are still force firing) before the turn ended Also, the crew of the mystery STUG(?) has abandoned their vehicle. However, the mystery tank that showed up last turn has been identified as a Panther(?). The SU-100s failed to hit it on its way to the river crossing. In town more tanks and enemy infantry are moving towards the SE send of the city. The sniper managed to take out the commander of that PVIV he was targeting, and a enemy rifle squad was ambush and driven back as it probed into the western end of the city. The pioneers continue to move forward and have yet to run into trouble. With any luck, they will be able to launch a small attack on the enemies rear in the next turn or so. Turn #17 Order Phase – The lone T-34/85 will jockey for a better position while the other two lie in wait for the advancing Panther(?). The SU-100s are also being sent to the river crossing. The HQ tank will have back at the south central part of the map in reserve, with the other SU-100 will setup a keyhole position behind the T-34/85s. Elsewhere, a pioneer platoon will attempt to ambush a HT near a building. Tanks will stay put this turn with hopes of them ambushing any advancing units. Turn #17 Action Phase – That PZIII FT isn't dead, as it and the other one backed off. The Panther(?) ended the turn about 10m from LOS one my first T-34/85. The SU-100s are taking their sweet time (damn turn rates!) and only started moving at the end of the turn. More enemy artillery was dropped on the river crossing to no effect. In the city, the pioneer platoon failed to ambush a HT and was driven back by heavy gunfire. More heavy artillery landed at random in town giving both sides heart attacks. Casualties however, are still light with just a few squads rattled. Turn #18 Order Phase – The T-34/85s have been a few tweaks to directional facing to get the best possible shot on that Panther(?). The SU-100s should get to their positions by the end of the next action phase. The 2nd infantry platoon is about done getting formed up and will take over holding the river crossing for the first platoon in the next few turns. Things seemed to have reached a bit of a stalemate in town. So, I'm going to send a T-34 FT forward to try and keyhole a HT I see sitting in the road. An OT-130 is going to set fire to a church that is full of enemy infantry contacts. Another OT-130 and a T-34 FT are moving up to support it. Turn #18 Action Phase – Well, this was an interesting turn. The Panther was properly I.D.ed as such moments before or ran into T-34/85s and was hail fired to death. Also, a 152mm strike landed on the NE VL. A resulting secondary explosion and smoke cloud indicates another vehicle kill of some kind. Looks like the SU-100s are a day late and a dollar short. Whoa to the enemy infantry in that church. They came under fire from not one, not two, but 3 FT tanks at once. 2 OT-130s and a T-34 FT let loose for a good 45 seconds of the turn. More heavy artillery landed without much effect. Another T-34 FT is still redeploying, but is safe and sound. The last PZIV at the north bridge was seen moving SE towards a VL. Turn #19 Order Phase – With the 2nd infantry platoon ready to take possession of the river crossing, 1st platoon will advance towards the NE VL. I'll use the infantry to scout out those last two enemy tanks and then call up the T-34/85s. The SU-100s and the 2nd infantry platoon should be more than able to hold the river crossing for the rest of the game. In the city, a T-34 FT is about the keyhole a HT FT, some unit movement tweaks should improve its chances. The T-34 FT over watching the N bridge is now moving into town as well. An RPG-43 tank hunter team is moving east, to help couther the growing armor threat there. Another pioneer platoon is going into the meat grinder to try and knock out a HT sitting near a building. With a good number of the enemy infantry suppressed, they should have a better chance than the last group. Turn #19 Action Phase – Uh-oh. It seems that the "Panther" was a really JagdPanther after all. His twin brother was spotted heading for town along the road at the north end of the map. Still, the one at the river crossing bit the dust quite nicely. Another nail biting turn in the city. The T-34 FT missed getting a HT FT, but it now controls a large section of streets. A PZIV tried to rush 2 OT-130s. I "lost" my first tank as the PZIVs managed to Gun Damage one OT-130 by putting a shot through the turret, but the other roasted it and the resulting secondary explosions caused a nearby enemy HT to be taken out as well. To top it off, the HT that was knocked out was supposed to be killed by that advancing pioneer team. The pioneers showed up just in time to kill the HT crew as they ran for cover. Turn #20 Order Phase – The 1st platoon at the river crossing is starting to advance while the 2nd platoon takes up relief positions. A T-34/85 is going to fire on the crew of that JagdPanther that bailed out last turn. The SU-100s will stay put for now. The 152mm Spotter has shifted fire a bit to get a better shot placement on the buildings at the NE VL. The 76.2mm spotter will hold fire until I can find some concentrations of enemy infantry. In town I'm pulling the gun damaged OT-130 back to the SW VL. A T-34 FT is moving up to take its place. It seems my opponent is hell bent on throwing more of his heavy armor into the fight. So, I'm ordering a FT team up to cover the FT T-34 that has a nice keyhole position. Even a 76.2mm gun will go through the side armor of a JagdPanther at these close ranges. Also, a sniper and an ISU have had their cover arcs readjusted to cover the bridge north of town. I might get a lucky shot or two at the JagdPanther if it, as I expect it to, rolls into town. Note: At this point I've turned on the "Ceasefire" button. As Axe2121 has begun to "express" his displeasure at the way things are going. Turn #20 Action Phase – Found some German infantry loitering around NE of the river crossing. Rifle platoons started trading shots near the end of the turn and so far two German rifle squads have shown up. I haven't seen hide nor hair of those PZIIIs though. In town, the yet to be identified JagdPanther charged straight into town and is now sitting at the north end of the city. I was disappointed that neither the ISU nor the sniper took a pot shot at it. Besides that, the town itself was quite for the most part. Turn #21 Order Phase – I'm bringing more fire to bear on the two enemy rifle platoons. A T-34/85 will make its way through some scattered trees to try and help them while the other tanks keep the road locked up. I'm shifting a few of my forces around in the city. I'm bringing up a sharpshooter, who will try to pop the melon of the still unbuttoned JagdPanther. The FT T-34 in the nice keyhole position will stay put, as any German armored unit entering his LOS should be in FT range. Turn #21 Action Phase – I ganged up on an enemy rifle platoon pretty good and managed to rout them. However, the T-34/85 moving through the forest bogged near the end of the action phase. He has some infantry around him, so I'm not too worry. I did see a PZIII(?) trying to move through the scattered trees as well. Not much happened in town. The JagdPanther is hanging back and is now facing west to prevent me from flanking. The HT FT area fired on a building moments after my pioneer platoon withdrew from it. Overall situation: Since we are about 2/3rds the way through the battle, I might as well take stock of my situation. Of all the Objective flags (5 Large 1 Small) I have 3 large ones firmly under my control with another large one disputed, and the small VL abandoned by both sides. Only the Large VL in the NE corner of the map is in enemy hands. Combined with the "Big ticket items" kills I've racked up like the 2 Brummbars and the JagdPanther and the good positions I'm in now, my main strategy will be to sit tight for the most part till the end of the game and let the enemy beat himself bloody while I rack up a bigger score. Turn #22 Order Phase – First thing I have to do is get the T-34/85 unstuck. I've reset and tweaked the order movements a bit to give it a better chance at getting on the move again. I'm also shifting the infantry around a bit to keep them out of LOS of the prowling PZIII(?) I've adjusted the orders a bit for the sniper who is stalking the JagdPanther to give him a better and safer shot at it. Besides a few adjustments to the placement of HQ units to get better control over their squads, I'm stay put this turn so I can see what the German tanks are up to. Turn #22 Action Phase – The T-34/85 is still stuck, but hasn't been immobilized yet either. I can see the PZIIIs desperately trying to get LOS on my infantry that slowly pushing their German counterparts back. Everything is still quite in town. Most of his infantry must be staying put for now as mine are. Turn #23 Order Phase – I'm shifting the infantry around a bit to keep them out of LOS of the prowling Panzers. With any luck my own tanks may get a shot at them next turn. With the one T-34/85 stuck, I am ordering another one up to support the infantry. An SU-100 will take its place. In town, I'm sending an ISU-152 to help get things moving again. I'm also sending an HT around to far eastern end of the city to prevent any "surprises" from sneaking up on me in the form of infantry. I'm also shifting the 76.2mm FO again to give him LOS on the city, as the enemy infantry at the River crossing is to far in the woods to target. I'm also sending the PTRS team to the city as well, as I think I can get some shots in on a parked PZIV. Turn #23 Action Phase – The stuck T-34/85 has worked itself loose and is on the move again. The infantry continue to slug it out, with my side managing to advance a bit. A PZIII(?) is retreating north up the road, and at the end of the turn a SU-100 had just begun to target him. I can still see other enemy tanks jockeying around in the woods trying to get at my infantry. Thankfully, the T-34s will be in a position to cover my infantry in the next turn or two. In town I lost the sharpshooter to an enemy rifle platoon across the street. Revenge was extracted by a T-34 FT that lit the whole building up. Before he died, the sharpshooter did confirm the location of the missing PZIV. It, along will all the other enemy armor, is bottled up at the north end of town. Elsewhere, a pioneer platoon came under heavy "fire" from an FT team and other infantry units in a church at the SE end of town. I thought that there were a good number of enemy infantry in there. No matter, the ISU-152 is on the way with orders to reduce the church to rubble. Turn #24 Order Phase – I'm going to move two T-34.85s through the scattered trees do they can get LOS on the enemy infantry in the area. My own infantry is close by to protect them and to suppress the enemy infantry as well. The SU-100 has 48% hit chance on that fleeing PZIII(?). Since it's going up hill, I should get a few shots at it before it moves out of LOS. I'm staying put in town this turn, as I want to wait till that ISU-152 shows up and clears out that church. I'm having a tank hunter team fire their small arms at the JagdPanther so I can at least button him up. Turn #24 Action Phase – I'm going to buy a round of drinks for that SU-100 crew. The PZIII(?) brewed very nicely after a single 100mm hit. Another PZIII FT is desperately trying to get at my infantry in the woods without much luck and I am still slowly pushing his infantry back. Things ended on a dramatic note in town as the JagdPanther moved forward into the LOS of a T-34 FT just as the turn ended. The before Mentioned T-34 FT has both a single tungsten round and 5 shots left in the FT while the JagdPanther is desperately trying to slew its body around to face the T-34. Turn #25 Order Phase – I'm sending the free T-34/85 up to try and get some shots at that PZIII FT while the other two tanks advance through the woods with the infantry. SU-100s are in nice over watch positions and should be able to handle anything extra that may come up. In town, the T-34 FT will have to stand its ground. There isn't enough time to withdraw from LOS. I'm still waiting on the ISU-152 to show up. It should be in position in the next turn or two. In the meantime, an OT-130 is going to light up the church and a nearby building with its FT. Turn #25 Action Phase – Still no shot on the PZIII FT as it blindly area fires into the forests. However, the other T-34/85s and their infantry escort are moving through the woods just fine. Enemy infantry is not liking the 85mm HE rounds, at all. A case of both good luck and back luck in the city. The bad luck was that the FT on the T-34 kept hitting a nearby church instead of the JagdPanther. The good news is that the main gun blew a track off the enemy tank and now the JagdPanther is immobilized in the middle of the street with its main gun aimed at nothing important. A side note, the retreating OT-130 and the ISU-152 got in a traffic jam. I'll have to straighten that out next turn. Turn #26 Order Phase – I'm going to keep moving the tanks into the woods, abet at a very slow pace, just far enough till they get LOS on the enemy infantry there. By my count there are two platoons of infantry in the forest. I'm going to make extra sure that the tanks don't outpace their infantry escort. I'm still trying to get a shot on that PZIII FT, but it still isn't in LOS and I don't want to risk moving the tank up any farther. I've untangled the mess between the OT-130 and the ISU-152, but now a new mess has appeared. A LMG team and a FT team have evacuated a burning building. I'll use withdrawal orders to get them out of trouble as fast as I can. As for the JagdPanther, now that it is out of commission, the center road in town is now wide open to me. With 1 PZIV at the west church and the other PZIV at the NE end of town watching SE, I can move a T-34 FT up to both get a side shot at the JagdPanther and bring more fire to bear on the enemy infantry bottled up in the church. Turn #26 Action Phase – Still can't get LOS on the PZIII FT as it vainly area fires into the woods. The enemy infantry is now heavily suppressed as the T-34/85s continue to advance. In town was one of the most amazing turns yet. The T-34 FT ordered to move forward caught an entire infantry platoon out playing in the streets. Napalm and HE was abound as squad after squad was cut down. The JagdPanther suffered several side penetrations, but was still alive at the end of the turn. I can see the PZIV that was at the NE end of town trying to re-position itself. I'm not sure what it is up to. Turn #27 Order Phase – I'm going to take out that PZIII FT come hell or high water this time. An advance to contact order has been issued to the T-34/85. The only problem is that a section of road is somehow on fire. I just hope the tank can pass through it, otherwise I'll be bottled up in the area by the VL. With the PZIV on the move I'm going to sit tight in town this turn. A tank hunter team and a FT team are being repositioned to better cover the surrounding infantry and tanks. I've got the German infantry pretty much contained and will blast the last of then out of hiding when the ISU-152 shows up. Turn #27 Action Phase – It just won't die! I got a nice front hull penetration on the PZIII FT, yet it kept moving around. It did stop force firing however so at least there is hope I got a "Gun Damage" on it. The German infantry is starting to force fire into the woods as well. More infantry roasting action in town as a rifle platoon uncovers a small house full of German. Said house was in LOS of an OT-130 and was lit up very nicely at the end of the turn. Elsewhere the last of the enemy armor was on the move with both PZIVs and a HT moving west. Turn #28 Order Phase – Okay, I have LOS on that PZIII that has been pestering me. I've going to have a T-34/85 blast it into next week. As for the other troops, I'm going to have them stay put until the end of the game. With only 4 turns left, it's doubtful that I can reach the NE VL in time. Not much to do in town. It's too risky to move many of my tanks around now that the Panzers are on the move. It's pretty much a waiting game till the end of the battle. Turn #28 Action Phase – Well, I wanted that PZIII FT dead and boy did I get it and then some. After brewing up from an 85mm Hit, a second PZIII FT came racing around the corner in an attempt to rush the T-34/85. Before either tank could fire, an SU-100 pulling over watch took it out with a singe shot into the hull. In town, another German rifle squad was ambushed an eliminated by my infantry. I can now see what the German tanks are up to as well. All of the surviving German armor in town is moving west to extract revenge on the T-34 FT that took out the JagdPanther. Turn #29 Order Phase – I'm going to keep the pressure on just enough at the river crossing to prevent the enemy infantry from rallying. It's too late in the game to get to the NE VL and I'm not going to risk running a single tank there. In the city, I'm going to have to get a bit more aggressive. The at risk T-34 FT will face NE in preparation for the incoming tanks with a FT team watches his back. Another T-34 FT (HQ unit) will move forward in an attempt to keyhole advancing units. Both tanks are unbuttoned to increase their spotting capabilities. The now arrived ISU-152 will begin to force fire on the church and another building next to it while some infantry and a M5 HT move north. The third T-34 FT is now aimed north as well to lock up the road in case a PZIV decides to head there. Turn #29 Action Phase – All's well than ends well. Looks like Axe2121's AI troops revolted and hit the ceasefire button for him. The battle ended with a major victory for my side and control of 3 major VLs. Here is the score Me: Men Okay: 293 Total Causalities: 48 KIA: 12 Guns lost: 3 Tanks lost: 0 Flags held: 900 Enemy casualties: 2670 Total score 83% Axe2121: Men Okay: 203 Total Causalities: 123 KIA: 38 Guns lost: 3 Tanks lost: 13 Flags held: 300 Enemy casualties: 443 Total score 17% I'm a bit surprised by how much infantry he had left. There was at least a rifle company's worth of soldiers and support weapons defending the two roads that lead to the NE VL. Also, the mystery unit that brewed up was a kubelwagen. Overall, it was a good game. There were some really tense moments during several of the action phases. Post battle analysis (Me): Not sure what I could have done differently, as everything worked out for the best. Speed was my greatest asset and I was able to set up forward defensive positions at the both the river crossing and in town before Axe2121 could even get their. The ISU-152s on over watch helped and the superior range of Russian FTs helped as well. Post battle analysis (Axe2121): Oh my, anyone reading this best pull up a chair and a cup of coffee, this is going to take a while. - I saw little co-operation between armored and infantry units. The tanks at the river crossing kept blindly charging into my positions even when he knew I had tanks there. Same thing happened in town. Small groups would move every now and then but didn't really support each other. - The JagdPanther went into a situation they never should be in. SP guns are horrible in a closed environment like a city or large forest. - Not once was my eastern flank in the city ever threatened. Even a small diversion forces would have bled off some of my armor from the slug fest taking place near the VLs - Then there was the Rifle platoon playing in the street when the T-34 FT came into view. Rule number one of street fighting is never go out in the street. - You should treat Artillery FO teams the same way you treat a machinegun. Fire in bursts and try to wait till you have visual contact. The light artillery strike he dumped on the river crossing killed one TC in a T-34/85 and that was it. Everything else generated some nice craters for my troops to hide in later on. - Like the fly on your pants, your tanks should be buttoned up when engaged in combat. I think at least three German TC fell victim to my sharpshooters.

NAPALM IS THE ROXOR!!!! :mad: :mad: Here is the offical score for "Cherry Waffles" Me: Men Okay: 293 Total Causalities: 48 KIA: 12 Guns lost: 3 Tanks lost: 0 Flags held: 900 Enemy casualties: 2670 Total score 83% Axe2121: Men Okay: 203 Total Causalities: 123 KIA: 38 Guns lost: 3 Tanks lost: 13 Flags held: 300 Enemy casualties: 443 Total score 17% GARARARGARARAGAR How does it feel to be slathered in napalm while getting a 100mm enema you inbred canadian freak! RRARRARGARAGAR :mad: :mad: (P.S. A more "articulate" AAR to follow. Also, turns out to the rest of you slobs.) Edit: I hate to bug out on you PlatCmdr, but I'm going to have to postpone our re-match. Real life© it rearing its ugle head in the form of medical problems and a sort of "Do or Die" time in my education/working career. Edit #2: The Full AAR is up on a thread of its own. Go and read it you slobber goats. :mad: [ July 02, 2003, 06:57 AM: Message edited by: Nippy ]

And what's this yammering aboot things Canadian? Christ man its not even noon and it sounds like Axe2121 is half in the bag. He sounds "half in the bag" because AssHatRunandGun is trying to dull the pain I'm giving him in Cherry Waffles with massive amounts of cheap booze. Way to run your tank right into the LOS of my TDs. Maggot. :mad:

Canuks and Brits, mocking each other. The end of the world is truly near. Speaking of the end of the world: Axe2121 - NAPALM R0X0R3D JOOZ! Robohn - Just lost the last of his tank support. Fear the Marder. Shoesties4th - Much like the Brits, his Russian hord must be stopping for a tea break. Some PTRD teams that were pesting my HT just got slathered in TNT for their troubles. Edit: The above mentioned maggots have a helping of :mad: in their in box. [ July 01, 2003, 01:23 AM: Message edited by: Nippy ]

In the game, just as in Real Life, all credit and praise for your victories accrue to people further up the chain of command than yourself. What are you talking about. After each assault I launch, command always sends me a truck load of medals. The things is though, they all look alike. "Purple Hearts" they call em. Okay, all joking aside. One of the this I used to love about the Old Flight Sim "Janes: Advanced Tactical Fighters" was the rather large two page debreifing that followed each mission. The worse you did, the more advice you got. I really hated in the sequal that the debreifings were reduced to single line assessments.

Soddball is over in the GF starting political threads like some kind of America-bashing, pinko, liberal Englishman. Next thing you know the forum police will be following him back to this refuge from the nastiness of the GF. GRRRR!!!! :mad: *Coming Soon to a theater near you.* Tagline: Just when you thought it was safe to post. It came from the General Forum! Thrill as an Israeli and a Palestinian debate gun control and abortion while smoking medicinal marijuana and driving over endangered species with their electric powered car while they are on their way to the store to pick up copies of "GI Combat" and "The Forgotten Soldier" Starring: Frunze, William Amos, Sulla, and many, many more! Pre-order tickets now to receive a free complementary picture of George "Dubya" Bush Jr. with a Hilteresk mustache we crudely drew on his face with a magic marker. ------------------------------------------------- I can all ready see the sequal: "Lord of the Flames: The Double Posts" Heck, I've managed to turn the "Not a game?" thread here in the CMBB forum into WWIIOL flame fest in the making. More of my peverse humor to come later...

Ohhhhh.....knifes...that are still at minimum 3 monthes away. Mocking will come later, but first, back to our subject. Two ideas are prevaliant when trying to remove burdin on the human player in a Higher Operational level wargame. 1. Automate lower level forces - No AI in existance can equal the human brain. Look at how many times people scream "WTF are you doing!?" at the Tac-AI in CMBB. Imagine giving command of a vital tank Platoon or infantry company to the AI in CMBB. Usually you have to use a "Board Game" style of number crunching and abstract the smaller level battles IE 'The Operational Art of War' 2. Online Play with players filling all roles - This is what WWII Online tried to do. A noble idea, but doomed to failure. The idea was the logistics Grogs would join the higher level planning groups while the tacticans would play as your riflemen, tankers, pilots, ect. The problem? Player base. The lack of control by a High Command over the total forces for each side lead to something more akin to a riot than a war. Take the annoyance of CSTS (Cowardly Soviet tanker Syndrom) when your ISU-122 get the drop on a Tiger and runs away. Multiply it by a million. And that is the frustation level you will face. Nothing like watching every tank at your disposale get wasted by General. L33t-d00d as he driving them one after another into an ambush. 2A. But, low level (squad or Platoon) games are fun to organize if you can find like minded people. I played the Invasion44 demo with some Grogs from the General forum and had a blast. Still, try and find a comapny worth of Grogs. Not going to happen. In the end: More Player control = More fun. Now I commence with the mocking *Missing since June 2001* If sighted, please proceed to the nearest phone and call 1-800-BUYCRSACLUE immeaditaly.

Time to bump this thread back to the top with a daily battle report: Axe2121 - Just got an entire rifle platoon BBQed after an OT-34 caught them playing in the street. Robohn - Call Mulder and Scully! Aliens have abducted Robohn and repalced his brain with the CMBB AI! How else could you explain leading an infantry charge with an Artillary FO? Shosties4th - We both seem to know what we are doing. Man, this one is going to get ugly. Edit: I forgot the :mad: [ June 30, 2003, 07:03 AM: Message edited by: Nippy ]

Heck, the radio stations alone make the game worth the purchase. Four words, from GTA III; "Citizens Raging Against Phones"

Fundamentally, because CM only vaguely approximates the actual process of commanding troops at company/battalion/whatever level, it really is a game, albeit an exceptional one. This isn't a semantic difference; I'm not talking about the game "simulating" what the commander had for breakfast. I haven't quite come up with a good way to put this into words, but my intuition is that most of what a commander has to worry about on the day of battle is "action," while most of what a CM player has to worry about is "decision." If that makes any sense. I imagine they saying from the origianl M1 Tank Platoon had it best when it described the player as a "Guiding spirit" that could "possess" any unit on the field. The CM series is the same way. You, the player, are the Battalion, Company, Platoon, and Squad commander. As it should be. A wargame with live players filling out each ladder of the rank structure was tried in WWII Online. Didn't work out so well. Everyone wanted to be Rommel, nobody want to be Private Can N. Fodder.

Woo hoo!! Neck and neck with Mother Nature. She's, like, totally hot!! And red in tooth and claw too!! </font>

Crow and I have just started our scenario, which is named Counter Intelligence. My German commandos are attacking his Russians. Unlike Soddball's Kneiber Dam, this takes place in daylight. I play tested Counter Intelligence as the Germans vs AI. It'a fun little battle to say the least. However, the main reason I'm here is to give a quick update on the festering pile of failure called Axe2121, who has managed to lose yet another Uber-Kitty to the might of the Red Army. I think that puts our AFV loss ratio at 7 to 0.5 Edit: or...our...ARARARARARARARARARA :mad: :mad: Edit #2: I'll give him 0.25 for the one tank he was able to gun damage and 0.25 for the T-34 that bogged for a few turns. So far he's neck and neck with nature for how many losses he has inflicted. [ June 28, 2003, 11:25 PM: Message edited by: Nippy ]

Turns are out, my little Waffles, and here's the score so far: Axe2121 - He has all ready lost two AFV to a flamethrower, now he's going for three. Elsewhere a tank of his got a 100mm enema for its troubles. Robohn - Is getting is tanks pwned by my Marders. Why he brought a gaggle of immobile towed guns as well, I will never know. Shosties4th - His commie hords just got slathered in nice hot TNT. My SP TNT dispensory is on the way to dish out more high explosive fun. "GARRARGARAGAG Napalm is still the r0x0r! GARARGARARGARG" - :mad:

Well, it's not a perfect simulation. As the CMBB AI shows more tactical skill than most WWII OL players now-a-days. Just read my sig:

*Sigh* I remember the good old days when people used to get into flame fests over things like Guy Sager and GI Combat. Now the political rants make GoodAle look calm by comparision.

Which version? The early version has serious problems with armor weakness due to poor quality metal in the armor. Besides, it's the only thing with a 122mm gun in a turret...barring the JS-3.

OK, cheers! I'd quite like to play through the Stalingrad Pack at some point if that takes your fancy? Would like a few smaller games under my belt first just to get used to this whole PBEM thing. Get ready to forget just about everything you ever learned playing the AI. Then again, the AI has made better tactical choices than some people I know.

HoI got released before it was ready for prime time. (Stategy First? Big suprise, no?) WWII Online, GI Combat, Strike Fighters: Project One, and Sudden Strike Forever (Read: The patch you had to buy). Quite the lineup. As for grand strategy games. The only one I've ever found that acheived a perfect ballance between tactical and stratigic elements was X-Com UFO defence. When you didn't upgrade your equipment fast enough you could feel the effects on the field.