Eden Smallwood

My answer to what I perceive to be an aggravating victory determination in my QBs was precisely to give myself a bazillion turns, and just play until I have all flags and the enemy is completely routed.... Unfortunately I found a different problem with that solution- the enemy AI seems incredibly reluctant to surrender, regardless of nation or time. I mean they just won't give it up until I have them outnumbered a thousand to one. It would be nice to have an endgame determination which, regardless of the historical accuracy of Soviets fighting to the last man, would declare the battle "over" when I have reached an abundantly clear firepower superiority, say 20 to 1, or something. Or even 10 to 1. Supposedly one side will surrender it it's morale drops to one fourth the other guy's, but I don't think I've ever seen that- even in QBs where I'm routing the enemy off the board, his morale appears reluctant to really drop sharply. ? Eden

Large every once in awhile; otherwise smaller. Huge forget it- I couldn't play it if I wanted to. The main issue I have was not directly asked, but close enough- too many scenarios want to give me an absolute minimum of time. Perhaps it's the pedigree of CMBO, I don't know, but I'm currently just aborting a scenario which it looks like I barely have time to *walk* my troops to the VL in that many turns, let alone take it from an enemy. If I don't have time to show due caution, let the nature of the displacement unfold, adjust myself accordingly, implement and finally conquer, (with a bit of being routed along the way!), then how else is that battle going to be interesting for me? Eden

Of what? Fast? Hunt is actually faster than Move so I would anticipate that it's faster than MtC as well. </font>

Yes, you're sounding extremely rational through here.</font>

Hunt moves at half the speed. Eden

Pshaw. I forgive myself. If you're going to insist that you cannot move faster and easier while in sight of a Routed Crew than while in sight of an unsurpressed HMG who is staring right at you, then I can't counter. You're leading my point away- I'm not suggesting we have an Advance which doesn't tire nor takes any more time than Move. The other wall- if your claim is that you would or should expend as much energy "just in case" Mr Routed has viagra left, than when the real HMG is firing at you, then I can't counter. My troops are NOT getting exhausted... but yes I AM doing it wrong. I haven't stated that I have a problem with exhausted troops- I play the game as it is, but there is imho a bit of unfinished business in the movement area in the game. Hmmm well I'm not sure I know what more to say... But I do know I need to go shower and get ready for work now, so I'm Withdrawing, (and I'll probably Panic, too). Eden

Mmmmmm I'm *pretty* sure it was Move. I'd wager ten Emrys and tuppence on it. But as you mention it, it would make sense for it to be both Move and Fast. And when your Tiger is in sight of a Routed Crew, your Tiger will not move with MtC. Eden

Yes it will. It is naturally confusing though, because the line that FV draws is sort of a target, sort of a movement command... I've hit the wrong key to cancel it too, all the time. Eden

BANG!!!! Vindication is mine, saith the Eden. May the Marsh Grogs be merciful unto thee, thou vanquished, and suck not thine feet (to an unreasonable extent). Eden

You should try it sometime. Eden

Of course! Can't tell whether I've offended you, in which case I'm sorry and I plead *fatigue* from sneaking around this damn topic for months, or whether you think you've offended me, in which case I'll explain that I'm not angry. As to my last post, I think I said what I mean- what's been listed as being in the patch just feels like they're about done with it, and after all they're turning down the exhaust factor, so... we're just beating our heads here. There just aren't going to be new commands or SOPs or TC's who graduated from Sears School of Driving in the patch. Call me a pessimist. And after all, I'd trade just about *all* that stuff to fix the HQ spotting bug... OK, but now wait a minute- I've just looked in the book of all wisdom, and it is *very* terse about what the different movements are. I am almost certain that in one of these billion MoveThreads, we had Someone@BFC explain more in depth what they were, and I swear that Move distinctly had a *morale penalty* when the enemy was contacted. Which strikes me as meaning that they really aren't "ready"- maybe they're ready *today*, but just not *now*, or something. You betray yourself here- it is exactly the point that you cannot distinguish between those five cases, (of innumerable), I listed above and "might be able to shoot at me". You're bypassing the difference between visual with an enemy who's not a real threat, and a threat right in your face. Then you are mimicking Stop If True Danger, at the cost of time. In RL, I think your commander would think you're an idiot to put the same exact effort into Advancing through an empty forest where there *might* be someone, maybe, possibly, than when there actually *is* someone firing at you. You need to save some of that energy for when the enemy is there, right? Let's say that this command we won't get ( ) takes half as much energy as Advance. I'd really say less, like thirty percent, but we could say half. They will exercise *due caution* and cover and leapfrog and all that cautious stuff, but not with the same vigor as when an enemy is actually shooting at them! And what I (we?) is/am/be saying is neither stand and dawdel, *nor* expend so much energy that you are combat ineffective by the time you get to where you're going. Right. I also am sceptical that they would not be more than happy to *bypass* those enemies such as the cases I listed above which are really combat ineffective or suppressed enemies. Ah, but I have not expressed trust in the enemy- if they become a threat, my SOP tells me to stop and deal with it under this command, *not* to attempt to get to point Bravo AT ALL COSTS. Ah ok- that was the Queen's "you", not you Mr Rock, less even was it referring to anyone's particular use of "whine" in this particular thread, which I don't think has occurred. I was touching on the fact that we have, after all, been trying to figure out what Movement is missing from our Eigenvector of commands for months. Perhaps I felt that your question "where do we stop?" was heading in the wrong direction. It's something of a non-argument, similar to when Mom said "What if *everyone* did that?", which, under some circumstances, is complete logical fraud. (Mom, if you're reading this, go to bed.) Anyhow, I apologize for seeming to accuse you of being a whiner-whiner. So... You use "Advance/Rest". *Maybe* we should have MoveButStopIfNecessary, where "Move" doesn't mean you will be shocked if a new threat *does* appear, and takes say sixty percent of the time your Advance/Rest does, takes sixty percent of the energy Advance does, and rename Move to... Schlep? Eden

Oh crap. That's simply not fair at all. I know that BFC did alot of research for this game, and... fine. You turkeys are first on my list for TCP challenges when I have sufficient courage to play humans or demi-humans. So there. Eden

It's in the book, dude. a heart: Morale a thunder: Combat ( you mean a "lightning bolt" ) a question mark: Stealth and i forgot the last one: I forget Eden

Alot of men can die in fifty nine seconds. If that was your only Pioneer squad... Ah well. "Absolute aversion" doesn't strike me as very fair, there, wwb. Insofar as you may be addressing me, why Move is eighty five percent of my infantry motion. And it's *only* eighty five because I use alot of deliberate Sneaking. Yes, I actually choose to Sneak alot, pause for thirty seconds every turn, but it can get me somewhere good unannounced pretty often. Anyhow... I'm clocking out of this whole Sneak and Cover Arc thing. Like I said, I ranted when I got the demo about Sneaking being Crawling, (not because I owned CMBO, which I don't), and here we are many moons later... I posted that in Citadel the Arc thing didn't seem to be a sufficient description for an Ambush, now here we are many moons later, the thread next door talking about the same thing (among other things)... What's the point. None of this stuff is going into the patch, and I guess we who advocate that SOPs are the direction in which this program needs to grow have made our point sufficiently. I have the feeling that the patch is what we're getting for a couple years... [ Lurking ] Eden

GONG, like one of those six ton Chinese gongs! Being a Mac afficiando... perhaps it's like being a surfer- you either know it firsthand, or you don't understand the fanatacism. Does that sound like a cop out? Too damn bad. The fact is, this machine I'm typing on is the original, it has *soul*, it does it *right*, it's the OS of which that exact one you're using right now is just a cheap copy, and I do mean *COPY* LOL!!! Sorry, but that's just the history of it, and to this day your umpteen bazillion flavors of windoze have that... what Frank Zappa called "Cheepnis", if I spelled it exactly right. Mac addicts are people who *love* their computers, and spend sh*tloads of money on software and blah blah. There are *some* PC owners like that, but there are just as many PC owners who are simply people... who own a "PC". I'm using Internet Exploder right now... I don't *hate* M$oft. Although I know for a fact that they're a bunch of a**holes who think it's cute to abuse monopoly power, I don't expend energy to think about it or argue with friends or whatnot. Anyhow, if you want to grok it, rather than conjure convenient explanations for yourself, you'll have to own a Mac, use a Mac, until you see it for yourself. That's just how it is. Oh! How ironic- but on the subject of *games*, well... you know, if that's what you want, other than CMBB (!) well, a high end PC has alot more to offer than Mac, that's just how it is too. Eden

I have to suppose you're being completely serious. That's quite a remarkable claim- if that's true then I was very wrong when I thought I was already as impressed as I would be. Is there a specific thread announcing this, erm discovery, or debunkery, or whatever? Eden

Currently, I do. However, the manual states that "Move" is to be used where contact is not expected to occur- it is implied to be a flippant lah de dah walk to the local Starbucks. The manual states clearly that there is a *morale penalty* if the enemy is encountered when using Move. IOW, "Ohmigod! The enemy!!! I need to put my CD player away and get my gun!!" Second, I'm concerned with their behaviour with an enemy who *appears*, or who seemed relatively innocuous at the turn's start, but is now a lethal threat. Sneak, for example, will cause the unit to *continue* sneaking straight towards the newly discovered foxhole with the newly discovered enemy HMG which is newly plastering my Sneaking unit with newly manufactured bullets. That behaviour quite understandably makes the unit prone to Panic, which gets us to a whole other basket of Finns. The desire is to have the unit stop and defend IF and ONLY IF a threat appears which can't be bypassed. Now come on- I've said this too many ways now. Oh, gosh... How about we "go" until we don't have a wide spectrum of people who feel emphatically that the (otherwise awesome) game is unnecessarily handicapped in that respect? We go until it is no longer the case that every other new person who receives the game comes here asking, "Why are my troops so dang tired?" I didn't start this thread- I posted many many lifetimes ago, asking why, in the *DEMO*, were my troops getting exhausted just by sneaking? Were they really crawling on their bellies across the continent? So these seem to be recurring questions, (or "whines", if you insist), and the simplest explanation seems to me that there's something here worthwhile to address. Eden

Not for long, buddy. Vilkommen To Der Clubben, Eden

Aren't the mucky parts of a marsh darker, almost black? Marsh grogs, arise. Eden

A) It's just a damn Crew, I think you can make it to Point Bravo relatively intact, nonfatigued, and dare I say it even somewhat undetected, with any luck. It's a Tank Hunter Team, which might be a threat under other circumstances, but currently looks pretty dern *Routed* to me. Which makes sense, given that we just wacked half his team, and the other half is bleeding from his nose. C) It's an MG nest, really oriented in the other direction, who is currently taking multiple Mortar unit targetting from Chicken Platoon. He is probably feeling preoccupied right now with the bottom of his foxhole. D) That unit's firepower doesn't even REACH to this copse, OK??? E) Sure, if that KV starts pointing at you, hit the ground. But otherwise, I think he's worried about our Tigers, ya know? In all these cases, what I mean by this command is that the unit moves to Point B and stops to defend if and only if they are fired upon or there is a clear and present danger which cannot be overlooked. IOW, there are two senses of "Contact", only one of which is used in our MtC. Contact means "I see you" Contact means "Hard rain is falling" We have the first, we don't have the second. In point of fact, what would really be nice, (here we go again) would be the SOPs of "Stop on Sight" and "Stop on Danger", but what I'm suggesting here *fits* into the current scheme of things, and I think it would help and is noticeably missing. How does that strike you? Eden

Ha! I can beat that- I've had my tank TAKEN OUT by a *disappeared* ATGun. I can see the foxhole, I *saw* the gun, but I can't see him knock me out. Aaaargh. Klingon Kloaking Device Turkey. Eden

I'm way ahead of ya- been plotting the absolute minimum of arguably viable path needed for awhile now, but unfortunately that will not avoid all traffic insanity. We've been over this topic before, of course. It's a bummer, and a "Follow" command like TacOps "Get Add Orders" would help alot, but I think they said Rewrite. And we already have "Follow Vehicle"! Just let my friendly vehicles use the "Follow Vehicle" command, and don't shoot them! Ah well. It's sad, but I may not be playing anymore scenarios where this will be an obvious problem. It's just too aggravating to lose tanks because your TCs are still learning how to drive. Eden

The most succinct way to describe the problem seems to me that there is a command missing from our movement choices. MtC becomes all but useless as the battle progresses for units anywhere towards the front. What would help would be a Move To Danger command. Like MtC, the units will attempt to arrive at point B unfatigued. UNLIKE "Move", they will not be sipping chai lattes, and they will not freak if they truly enouncter the enemy. UNLIKE MtC, they will not stop just because they notice a routed enemy crew six miles away. UNLIKE Advance, they will not be exhausted by the time they get there... Also UNLIKE Sneak, Move, Advance and just about everything but MtC, if an enemy appears and threatens or god forbid fires on me, the order is *cancelled* and forward motion ceases while the units put up their best defense. IOW, there should be way to get from point A to point B in the common circumstance that, while the enemy is *visible* from here, I am not in danger from any *currently visible* enemy, and I should be able to arrive at point B safe, sound, and unfatigued, in a reasonable amount of time while exercising all due caution. Not crawling on my belly across Asia, just due caution. There can be visible enemies who are not a danger. Eden

You bet your sweet patootie I checked- I spent a half hour trying to take out that d*mn wire. First, just let pioneers hang out around the wire, and hope they figure it out. Nope. They're still standing there. And that was days ago. Second let's *target* the "Wire". The pioneer squad is selected, and I move the cursor around, and if it's close enough to the "base" of the wire, the cursor gets grabbed in that usual way, and it says "Wire". Target that sucker. They *shoot* at it. Third, let's try to get an "Area Fire; use Big Bombs". Now, because the cursor gets *sucked* whenever it's close to the "wire", it's ALMOST impossible, but just BARELY is possible to find a couple microscopic pixels where the thing says: barbed wire ; Area Fire ; Use Explosives That sounds pretty dang good, right??? Nope. Does nothing. They toss all their satchels, but I think that the "barbed wire" in that message is just indicating a particular *location*, not a *thing*. It's equivalent to: tall pines ; Area Fire ; Use Explosives Fourth, bring in the KV. Yes, I'm completely serious. I could target it, when it says "Wire", but the bugger refused to fire at it. I swear! He just wouldn't spend the ammo. Your suspicion fails to impress me, but if you ever find the secret, name your price. Eden

D-Day Dodgers. France finally loses it, and invades Los Angeles, wreaking havoc on vinyards and cheese farms, and searching for O.J. Simpson, who they believe is hiding in a cave somewhere in Kandahar County. Eden