SeaMonkey

Good to hear, I kind of figured it'd be like that, but I seldom look at scripts, I like the atmosphere of the unknown recreated. Nup, have you thought about reducing the unit density? There are an awful lot of units in the initial USSR set up. I was thinking about cutting some of the UK units also and make them more dependent on the Commonwealth for help. I still don't see the Axis as having much of a chance early in this game, they should at least be able to command the initiative until late 42. As I see it, no chance for SeaLion, too much UK help for French Fall Gelb, too much USA help for Chinese and now that I'm into Spain and UK is throwing in the kitchen sink, I'm not sure the Germans can put them down in a timely manner. Now all this is for the Human vs Human aspects. And of course the game continues, so all is subject to change, just some early thoughts.

Hey Big Al, you forgot to set the new parameters for strikes and intercepts on CVs and Fighters. I'll fix it in the editor, what are your feelings for the values......you know what mine are.

Alrighty then, I guess I need to reiterate that my comments are for an H to H game, I'm testing for balance, among other things. Perhaps you'll need to modify the game as Big Al did for the Human vs Human competition and release that as a version, what with all the complicated scripting that goes on for the AI games it seems SC has come to this. Maybe three adaptations:eek:, one for each AI opponent and then of course the Human variety.

You know Nupr, I'm getting into Sept 40 and I'm noticing a lot of Allied forces around for the gathering. An Allied player could conceivably put together an Army Group from India, Canada, S.Africa, Colonial Africa, and Australia deploying them in many various global locations. Then, after initial successes in China, the partisans are going wild and the USA is contributing 200 MPPs to the Asian cause every turn, forcing the IJA to regroup after some very sharp counterattacks. Summary being, the Axis are starting to have a hard time and its only the fall of 40, luckily USA & USSR are in the 30th percentile. What with the UK contingent maxed out, the Battle of France was no cakewalk, but perhaps my observations are a bit premature.......continuing the saga.

Thanks for confirmation Nup. I thought something might have happened when I edited the scenario and recompiled it as it took a very long time for the save, in fact I just left the game for awhile. I've decided to continue, good to know as the Italians will soon be going for Algiers and I've come up with a contingency for Spain. That narrow slit of land into the Pyrenees is sure going to make the RN happy as they are bombarding anything close to the coast with good results....... But wait.....Stuka birds are a gathering.:cool:

Ah oh, now we got a real problem.....no Vichy France on the War Map....no diplomacy, no DoW.....game breaker!:mad:

Checked both pages from both sides, nada, but I'll tell you what, when I get back to the scenario I'll look after a couple more turns. Thing was, right after the armistice I wanted to diplo Vichy into the Axis camp and go after Spain, so I looked real hard...both pages, but perhaps I overlooked it.

Oh yeah I did notice that right after Vichy France is formed it doesn't seem to show up in the diplomatic list for either side, guess I'll have to attack to get them on my side.

Hope not any "game killers" as I just had a very competitive "Battle of France". As Poland went down on the second turn(ho hum, as usual) I operated west and attacked both Belgium and The Netherlands third turn, Belgium fell, but the Dutch hung on one turn, that's at least different! Now French soil was violated Jan. 19, 1940 by German forces.....in no hurry, just took Axis time. After a slugfest throughout the Winter and Spring, Paris was captured and Vichy was negotiated June 7, 1940, but not without significant casualties to the Wehrmacht. The BEF consisted of a level 2 Tank group, 2 corps fully level 1 IW, AT, and motorized and an army completely level one teched. Of course close cooperation with the French tanks at level one and coordination of Allied air assets decimated two Panzer groups and 2 teched corps, most losses I can ever remember for Fall Gelb. If it hadn't been for emergency research into anti-tank guns to level two, the Germans may never have taken the place with their unteched Panzers. Touch and go for almost 6 months, now its time for Dunkirk.

Hubert, wasn't the underlying philosophy for PT vs Tech interaction that each level of PT cancelled out each additional cost for tech upgrades? So for a corps built with the second level AT, IW, and Mot. upgrades, the additional MPP cost would be cancelled out by PT level 2 and equate to the same as the purchase price at 0 levels? Now there's an incentive for PT investment, and its simple logic.

One direction I'm taking with this is building CAG experience. Since the 3 IJN CVs start with 2 experience, I've been boosting their strength to 12 before initiating attacks, this usually precludes any exp. losses. With the action along the China coast, there is a good stage for developing the IJN CVs further and with tech they should be devastating when 42 roles around. Can you imagine how nasty they can be with double strikes? Don't get me wrong, I believe CVs should be the death dealers of the sea, but their features should represent that strength in groupings, not by themselves, unless raider hunting, and they should always require task force support.

Obviously not in one move, but it was possible using three moves, 2 operands and one transport.

Well its your mod Vypuero, so I'll have to relinquish to your wisdom, Lord knows you've put in substantial effort. Still, I'll play this one with the edited parameters, so far so good, but we shall really see when the USN and IJN go at it. And thanks for the Mod, it's most awesome.

All the more reason to keep them grouped and in proximity of land based support. I raised the CA and NA CTVs so that one strike usually sinks the target.

Al, get this to a semi-permanent state and I'll play a mirror against the AI, your suggested settings, while I'm doing Nupremals by hotseat. With tropical systems bombarding me, the surf is "out of control" VAS, and with all the hatches battened down, I've got time to play, at least until the electricity gives out.

Maybe a compromise, halfway for reinforcement/reformation, as the humans needed to fill the depleted ranks(training takes longer on higher tech weaponry) and I don't believe fertility drugs were available back then for human propagation(population limits, hiring mercenaries).

I kind of liked the way the transfer from Siberia worked, first you had to operate to the loop arrow and then operate or move to Caspian port, transport into Baku and then the unit was ready for deployment in the west. It took planning, contemplation, and there was incentive to keep them in the East as it cost MPPs to make the move, not just one blatant operand. You might want to consider reinstatement.

Yeah.....????...well what about those carriers? If you can convince me that 2 CAGs have as many effective planes at the specific function as fighter, TAC, or SB groups represent then I will relinquish and give carriers two strikes! Carriers are way to effective for the AI to use with additional experience given by the human player. The experience is the "breaker" and even at 0 SA and TA still provide too many "hits" . Now I'm not saying CV groups shouldn't deal out ground unit damage, on the contrary, in massed usage they should be able to cause some significant damage to ground units, especially the ones of the "soft" variety, hence the 1 SA CTV. Now, with a single strike, they are not so effective, as their numbers dictate, and are at the mercy of a fighter group's intercepts, which represents hundreds of planes. CAGs must be nurchured, upgrades are essential and they need the support of land based aviation......now you need the islands and forward bases. Sound historical?:confused: Hey! .but?..you never know Nup, perhaps I'm wrong,..... yeah right:p, testing will tell!

Editted the 1.03 version of your mod due to the new Global 1.02 parameters. Fighters get 2 intercepts / 1 strike. Carriers get 1 intercept and 1 strike, but I gave them a 1 SA and bumped the starting NA and CA values to 3 for UK / USA and 4 for IJN. I'll track a hotseat for performance.

Be nice if a decision event would direct you to deploy land forces/ naval assets at certain locations to gain a diplomatic %. Not always a sure thing but some randomness in the possibility with a varying % leaning acquisition.

You know ....SC decision events feature just screams out for an all new "even start" WW2 scenario. Like I've said before, something along the lines of WiF's "Days of Decisions". You could start sometime earlier, like maybe 1936, no one at war, only diplomatic possibilities based on the real decisions of pre WW2 events. Occupation of the Rhineland, the Kwantung Army, Italy's escapades in Ethiopia, etc. etc. Each decision causes a random increase in belligerence until someone is at war. All tech, starts the same, everyone equal, equal amounts of MPPs...to begin with, then comes manufacturing, infrastructure, military doctrine decisions costing MPPs per turn....or not, or you take control, you create and follow the Kriegsmarine's Z Plan for instance. Sure if you follow the historical path, you get something that resembles history, but if you don't? Sure gets old starting with the invasion of Poland, how about, Hitler uses his diplomatic prowess on Poland first, going for UK sympathies regarding the disposition of upper Silesia and the Corridor and then invades Czechoslovakia for the opening conflict. Maybe gets Poland to join him, diplo the Balkans and go get USSR first? Forget it, I want to make friends with UK and get Alsace-Lorraine back from France so I invade the west first, keeping USSR and the East as my potential accomplices? So many potentials, could have been just a little thing here or there, a military attache' that takes Hitler out and Goering valts to the leadership role, so many variables, no longer the cookie-cutter unfolding...Poland, Denmark, LC, Norway, France, USSR. We need "Days of Decisions"!

Hey Big Al, you got the Italian Army and Corps icons mixed up!

Congratulations Nupremal you have accomplished the proper simulated characteristics of a carrier airgroup(CAG) if MC's observations are correct. Now CAGs can do fighter sweeps on enemy airbases that have been softened up by land base bombers and still provide close air support of ground forces but only when sea superiority has been achieved. It will be interesting if MC can accumulate any CAG experience over the course of the game which will greatly enhance their ability to do ground unit damage.

U8led, I'm thinking that the "Military Police"( old anti-tank) units should have a soft defensive value, how about 1, and make them cost 60 MPPs instead of 40? Now you have a true garrison unit that will be slightly upgradeable with AT making them perfect for a city/resource fight.:cool:

As much as this campaign is intriguing.....my thoughts go wondering..... I mean SC has been about WW2, that's what the engine was designed to simulate....right? So....what do you think....an early thirties start date...all even, start with a plane, an army, and a naval unit,......... air, land and sea, initial units would pattern history. I like Big Al's map, its in between. Now the belligerents...Allies = USA, UK, and France, Axis are the original Tripartite. Think of it......USSR a minor...neutral...China too....think there might be some diplomacy?