Jollyguy

I think Colin has a good idea, the Axis should be limited in their diplo on majors. Allies is okay, as the Axis can react...i.e. in my current game with him he is Allied and had 3 US hits. That means he had to be weak in units, so I'm pulling a delayed Sea Lion. But with the Allies so weak they could not adequetly respond if the Axis bought a slew of US chits. So I think the house rule should be that the Axis can only buy one chit per major. So they could buy one US and one Russia. Bob

5) Give the Brits an army at Singapore and a bit more in India. 6) Allow the Brits to fund the first Free French decision much cheaper and/or give them more of an incentive to do so. Currently 400 is way too expensive and I don’t know of anyone who does it, as a potential Sea Lion is right around the corner. 7) Remove the gamey Manchester before London Sea Lion bug, and entrench the corp in Rome to remove the Italian gambit. 8) Raise the range of Allied readiness boost of dows to the Axis player. 9) An Army in the Turkish capital and a corp in the eastern city. In SC 2 it took quite the effort for the Axis to takedown Turkey, in SCG it’s a snap. Bob

I beg to differ, kalkwerk2, I've played enough head-to-head games now to spot the bias, and played plenty of SC 1 and SC 2. I'm just being forthcoming in acknowledging my mistakes but I believe there is a concensus forming on the board that there is a fair Axis bias. I'm still putting my arms around the game. But I'll tell you what, I'm very interested in testing my new strategy and could squeeze in one more game. If you've got time send an Axis first turn to: rrweeks@comcast.net Bob

One more comment on balance. In my game with Sandy I was Allies and took a Europe first strategy. He went for the Pacific and by late 1943 or so had taken Pearl Harbor after a brief, violent clash in which his Japanese Navy came out on top. He also kept pressuring Russia and sandwiched them with the Germans pushing to the Urals and the Japanese from the east. By 1944 the Russians were clinging to life, but I had taken Spain and Portugal and took Paris… and then knocked Italy out of the war! I did this by taking Rome with a Para from Vichy after about 8 Allied carriers plastered the hell out of the poor Italian defender . He didn’t see that coming. Then I knocked another minor out with another para, I can’t remember which, it was Hungary I believe. I did this around the time that Russia was doomed to fall. I then took back Norway and took Sweden which had been neutral all this time. Long story short the Axis was able to absorb all this and his Japanese just became a monster and landed in North and South America, etc, etc., etc. Now, I committed a number of strategic mistakes, mainly by concentrating too much on taking Paris against his super experienced jets when I should have been protecting my flanks better and a bit sooner and clearly dealing with the Japanese. But imo knocking Italy and a minor out and retaking Norway and taking Sweden should have been more than just blows that are easily shaken off, even with Russia out. I even garrisoned the two Northern Russian cities with British corps in anticipation of Russia’s capitulation. I think my mistake was that still being somewhat new to SCG I had an SC 2 perspective…as there were no Japanese in SC 2! If all this had happened in SC 2 it would have been a likely Allied victory. It is now 1947 and he has taken it all back, Italy, Spain, Portugal, France, Norway and Sweden, and his Japanese are all over the Americas. So I’m still learning SCG, but on balance I believe there is a fair Axis bias. I believe this would best be addressed by slowing the Axis momentum a bit earlier in the game, as when Barbarossa and Pearl Harbor occur the Axis are in position to lay claim to a dominant geographic economic base that gives them unstoppable momentum, and the Allies have a hard time just trying to get up to speed. It could also be done in the early mid-game, perhaps give the Allies a bit more around Pearl Harbor and Barbarossa to slow the Axis down. Like I’ve said before I believe balance is not far off…but it does need to be addressed. SC 2 was perfectly balanced, and if you remember Terif had a lot to do with that, he advised Hubert on numerous occasions how to fix bugs. This followed SC 1 in which the bidding got up to about 7500 mmp for the poor Russians. So perhaps Hubert will process all these comments and do his usual magic, otherwise we may be in a bidding situation here. If nothing is done there is also the possibility that people will just stop playing and the Axis side runs out of opponents, as who would want to be the Allies when the prospect of a losing is so high? Bob

I've played Dragon 2 times and am on my third game with him now, about 40 turns in. I think I have an Allied strategy that might even the game and am interested in trying it out on a good opponent, and have asked Dragon to send me another Axis first turn but he hasn't, I gather he's got too many games going. I also asked Colin & Sandy but they are too busy also. If someone wants to send me an Axis first turn we can run it through the paces. There's a lot of moving parts to SCG and Dragon has found many of the loopholes from the Axis side, but perhaps what I bumped into from the Allied side could even the score a bit. If you're interested send an Axis first turn to: rrweeks@comcast.net As to taking Manchester before London and forcing a total Brit surrender that's gamey and should be patched and going forward I'm going to make it a house rule in my games that you can't do that. I'm okay with the Japanese moving all over the place though, it gives the game variety. Afterall the Japanese attacked Ceylon and tried to push deep into the Indian Ocean, and if Cairo had fallen the Axis might have joined up, and the Allies did occupy Iran, so it was close. But if the Russians won't allow Allied units to op in, and I don't think you can do it in China either, then the Japanese should not be allowed to op all the way over to Europe and the Atlantic. Asis and Africa perhaps, but there should be a balancing limitation. Either let the Allies do it also or put limits on it. Bob

Sea Monkey is very right, and that's why Dragon doesn't do Poland in one turn, he's building the experience. An elite reinforced, better tech Axis unit does tremendous damage against the non-experienced, no tech Allied units. A 12 or 13 elite unit is a monster, basically just slicing through their opposition. The Brits can barely afford to buy the research to get up to speed. I also think it's unrealistic that the US doesn't start with motorization, while, the Germans and Japanese do. Don’t get me wrong, the Japanese need motorization in China otherwise it would bog down, same in Europe for the Germans. But of all countries that should start with motorization it’s the US. Bob

I am still learning as I go and trying new things and making some mistakes, and have in mind some good, standard Allied moves that could buy more time. But Grong is right. All the Axis has to do is basically lean away from the punches, as in a few years they build such a deep economic base that in time they can replace their losses no problem. Right now it is absolutely no problem for the Germans to get the second round of outer minors of Sweden; Norway; Spain: Portugul; All of north/central Africa; Turkey; All the Middle East; reclaim Finland; and then push the Russian back to the Urals. The Japanese have no problem taking all of the Pacific excluding Australia and up to India. A good Axis player can also take Pearl Harbor and Midway. (Most good Axis players will entirely bypass Australia.) However, with that said I wouldn't want to go overboard, I think nudging the Allies up a bit should be tried at first, as balance is probably not that far off. I know in my initial Allied games I tried to kill Axis more than look at the board strategically. In my later Allied games I’m trying to be more strategic and patient. In my game with Rambo, my first Axis game, I made so many mistakes it was almost embarassing, and yet my Axis still took out the Russians. He concentrated on Japan and that was going to fall eventually, but in the meantime I was shoving him out of France and taking back Spain, so we decided to call it a draw. I do agree that tac bombers are too strong. Imo they should be strongest against tanks and artillery which was their historical forte, same in general for naval, but not as strong against soft targets. Pinpoint attacks aren't going to gut a land unit. Against Sweden an elite reinforced tac bomber just plasters the initial unit placed in Stockholm and the para just casually floats down to finish the job. Same in Turkey. Turkey wouldn't be as bad if the Russians could get that eastern city and place some units around it in the mountains, that would buy time. If that city started with a full strength unit in it then after surrender the Russians could move in and better secure that flank. As it is now an Italian tank rushes in to garrison it and basically can't be dislodged, and the next turn the Germans op units over and then start pressing on the Caucusses from two sides, as they’re also coming down from Stalingrad. The Russians could buy a bomber and try to reduce the Turkish city, but that's pretty expensive early in the game when they are pressed to build enough corps to get coverage against Barbarossa. One idea could be to get the Russians their engineer earlier, or maybe give them a few pre-made fortifications. As to the Italian gambit imo the Italians shoudl start with an entrenched army there. That took care of it if I remember correctly in SC 2. Bob

Have a number of games under my belt now, and my sense is that the game has an Axis bias. Reading other posts I believe this might be the concensus on the board. However, I don't believe the bias is dramatic and small steps could nudge the game toward better balance. Some of these adjustments were used in SC II which I believe ended with near perfect balance. Here are my thoughts: 1) The Japanese can steamroll the Pacific and flatten Pearl Harbor in one turn. Just a bit more in this theatre could buy the Allies some time. If the US navy popped up with advancements that would cost the Japanese, and perhaps an understrength corp on Wake could appear in early 1941 which would be historical. 2) Important minors could start with a bit better placement and entrenchment. I.e., currently Turkey can easily be taken out in one turn from the Middle East which really puts pressure on the Russians. Sweden goes in one turn with a tac bomber and a para. And Norway is very hard for the Allies to take given the weather in 1939, but for the Germans it's a snap, one para and they get the resources and those two understrength corps. And the Phillipines could be a tad more stuboborn, to be historical. Perhaps an entrenched US army. 3) Russia could use just a bit more. With everything else in mind perhaps just another research chit and a couple more corps, and/or a sooner start to industry rebuilding. Currently the Axis doesn't really need to batter the Russians at first like in SC 2, they can just take their time and get around to them after they've built a huge mmp base. 4) Even another corp or two for the British would help. They are simply starved for mmps at the outset. Doesn't have to be at the outset, but perhaps in the queue. 5) A good Axis player goes right for India with the Japanese and then starts bombing the Russians. A bit more here would buy a bit more time. From what I've seen the Axis really gain strength and becomes pretty much an unstoppable force by 1943, with a US sized economic base and a huge, combined German/Italian/Japanese navy. By then they've conquered so much territory that they can absorb and fairly easily parry the first, expected Allied counterstroke, then resume their domination. If no SeaLion England becomes an unassaiblable island, but then mainland Europe is the same. By that time the Japanese are all over the place. I wouldn't be in favor of dramatic changes as they all need to be field tested, but I would give the Allies a bit more and the Axis nothing and then see how things work out. Bob

Dragon; Jollguy here at rrweeks@comcast.net. Have my new computer up and running, resend that last turn and we can resume the battle. See Ya. Bob.

I'll vote for swap.

I second this idea. Bob

I concur w/these posters. First, paratroopers should not be able to land unescorted behind enemy lines. Escorted, yes, they can damage similar to a bomber or tac bomber, but they should take some damage. They are more lumbering than bombers and have virtually no defenses compared to a B-17 or B-24...yet they take no damage? They should take damage commensurate w/an unescorted bomber/tac bomber. Second, I agree w/Rambo. I've had paras land in friendly rough hexes and take 50% damage...that's way unrealistic. 10% maybe, and perhaps a degrade to readiness, but not 50%. I can't recall if amphibs have done the same, massive damage on friendly hexes, but if so then that needs to be addressed, too. Bob

I would be against this change. Knowing that one area is prone to poor, unpredictable weather needs to be taken into account by the combatants. Such are the fortunes of war. The Russians didn't complain about the weather in late 1941, and Eisenhower took a chance with a go for D-Day even though it was raining sheets outside at the time, and an opening in December weather at the Battle of the Bulge released Allied air and helped turn the tide. Sometimes you get the bear, and sometimes the bear gets you. Bob

I think intelligence should be limited on the open seas. I.e., an invasion force shipping out from U.S. ports would okay, as the major belligerants attempted to place spies in ports of embarcation. But once at sea, absent naval units or long range air, that invasion force should be a mystery of where it's headed. Specifically, let's say the Germans have taken England, Ireland, Iceland, Spain, and West Africa, but don't hold the Azores, and a U.S. counter invasion is expected sometime, somewhere. Once the American invasion force leaves U.S. shores it's unlikely that it's exact destination would be known before it approached its landing beaches...except if the Germans invested in subs or air to spot it. There's no satellites yet in WW II, so there's no reasonable way I can see that the Germans should be alerted to naval units in the open seas w/out the investment in the scouting platforms designed to trigger advance notice. I guess you could argue they might pick up some radio traffic, but the Allies would also likely be sending out bogus radio traffic, so that would cancel. Bob

I would be game, but not WWI, I'd like to stick with SCG, WW II. Bob

I never got a response to the above question, what is the order that Russia moves capitals, and is there another move from the second capital? How about if Moscow is recaptured before the 2nd capital falls? I know in SC 2 the capital would move two or three times. Thanks. Bob

Germany First Game, Winter of 1944: After a protracted standoff Allies get three level 5 US tanks in place and with the help of escorted bombers and tac bombers take Istanbul, trapping the remants of the Italian navy in the Black Sea, which is finished off with the exception a one strength Italian destroyer hiding in the Svestapol port. The Germans take Rostov, but the next turn a Canadian corp lands in North England and a German sub is sunk, and the Germans pullback to face this new threat. The landing in England was a feint, and the Canadian corp is eventually destroyed, as the next turn a level 5 US tank advances to Oslo, and a bomber shuts down the port. Over the next several turn Norway is liberated and Sweden fallls, and the allies advance into Finland from the north. The Russians, waiting for winter, leave the Rostov/Stalingrad riverline for the second time and begin to reclaim cities, backed by level 5 tanks. General Jollyguyov realizes that modest losses are incured in escorted bombing runs vs costly intercepts against the uber experienced Luftwaffe, so even the Russians are escorting bombing runs now. General Sir Jollyguy also realizes that units can be hit with impunity by carriers if the Luftwaffe is grounded due to snow, so a Luftwaffe bomber and tac bomber are easily picked off around Greece, as Axis fighter aircover can't rise to protect them. Greeces city and port are also reduced to 0, and the german corp reduced for a possible landing. England is still under the Nazi heel and Asia is all Japanese and his Japanese bombers are hitting me in Russia, but the Brits have begun a push into Southeast Asia. Japan First Game: Western Europe is all Axis, with the exception of Iceland and British corp in Bergen, which landed from Iceland after repeated notifications that Norwegian partisans were active, telling me the city was not garrisoned. Moscow fell and was retaken and fell again. He holds Stalingrad to Moscow to Leningrad. In Asia the Yanks advance all the way to Ryuku and two US subs were hitting his convoy routes, but then I became overextended. 5 or 6 German subs showed up and the entire RJN, fresh from plastering two English air units that were trapped in rain in Southeast Asia, never able to join in a hugh naval battle between the RN and JN in which the JN was the last man standing, but then had to retreat to face the USN moving in at flank speed the other direction. The Yanks now hold a crescent of westernmost islands just before Iwo Jima running south and over toward the Philliipines (which is still Japanese) and half of Sumatra. The Yanks have several bombers posted at the edge of their control zone, keeping an eye on anything that moves. Indonesia is Japanese. Every thing east of the areas mentioned is Allied, following them grinding their way west reducing one Japanese bastion after another with carriers set to tactical. We are currently in a standoff as we both lick wounds and refit. The US has six carriers, I think the RJN 4, but the Japanese will have the advantage of interior lines and ground based air units. The Brits have moved south from India and taken a city bordering China in Southeast Asia, and have an advanced tank probing into China proper, which is garrisoned by Japanese armies. The Russians out west hold a Chinese city and several mines. All hell is going to break loose soon, as the USN is almost refitted, and the Germans will be making trouble in Russia. Bob

Hubert, I checked on that caution with my opponent, the one that says it was unable to match to the original 1939 campaign, and I think it might be getting triggered in error. He said the same thing has happened when he received the first Axis turn, and Rambo said it's happened to him also. I think the feature would be good to have, but it might need to be tweaked a bit. Bob.

What does it mean when someone sends an Axis turn and it says the original 1939 campaign couldn't be located, or something like that? Does it mean that the opponent has modified the default settings somehow? Thanks. Bob

Okay, I'm calling this one, looking forward to a rematch. Colin said he's okay with me trying the Allies for the rematch, and then I'll do Axis on our third game. A load of learning in this one. So I'm 0 for 2 in my first 2 games, but feel I've got a better sense of the game now. Bob

At first I was hitting the Italian cruiser in port and not meting out much damage, then I realized I had my carrier set to fighters. The follow-up carriers sank the cruiser fairly easily, but I wasted at least two hits that could have been diverted to a another Axis unit. Such is the fog of war. So the lesson is to carefully plan your carrier movements and attacks, and set to tactical accordingly. Btw, advanced carriers set to fighters and auto do very well in providing air cover against unescorted tactical and strategic bombers, while naval tactical from carriers is simply deadly against ships, even BB's and even if in port. And my sense is that subs can't dive while in port, so if you can catch them there it's an easy kill. So carriers are the true King of the seas, as tanks are on land in this game. In a game I have going w/Rambo both our carriers have simply waxed the others surface ships that didn't have fighter air cover. I would say you need combined arms on the sea just the same as on land. On sea even the Allies, against an opponent who likes a big navy, would be smart to have some cheap subs and damaged units screening his main force. Bob

Game A) Cat and mouse in the Med, Axis air keeps popping me from Spain and Italy, sinking a few ships. Ankara holds after a second battle and I place a level 4 Russian tank in there to settle the matter. In East Russia the Japanese advance from the south and east, but a level 4 Russian tank settles that, too near the second Russian capital. In Russia Finland and Stalingrad are captured by the Germans, but during the Fall of 1943 the Rostov to Stalingrad line holds, and in the Winter of 1943/44 the Russians, having built up and achieved numerical superiority leave the riverline and move forward, supported by two artillery that provide effective defensive and offensive fire. After two turns the German line is bending, as now Level 5 Russian tanks, preceded by artillery, and supported by tactical air which can fly uncontested as the Luftwaffe is in the Med, probably also costing the Axis spotting capability. The Russians take out 5 German armies and special forces left in the open, some with one hit, and reduce a level 3 tank. Game In this game I'm pursuing a Japan first strategy. A massive naval battle occurs in Indonesian Straits as 1943 comes to an end. The RN, after falling back from a hasty raid into the Med, engage the Japanese navy, supported by several German subs. Losses are heavy on both sides, several Japanese BBs and a couple subs go down mainly thanks to RN carriers set naval tactical. The RN loses two carriers and several ships in the Japanese counterstrike. But the USN, supporting an island hopping campaign toward the Phillipines, leave the marines on their own and move at flank speed to try to capture the Japanese navy in a pincers. The Russians have fallen back east of Moscow, which fell, dig in along the first rail line, but peppering the theatre with units to protect the ability to operate out should the paratroops drop behind the Russian lines. The Russians recently left their trenches and losses ensued on both sides, but next turn will determine the full weight of the Axis counter attack, and wheter the Russians have to fall back and wait for another day. Bob

Colin makes some good points. After getting a few games under my belt, including my second ever...against Colin, here's my take: 1) Do not defend Riga and possibly the next north/central city. Defend the center and south forward cities, w/corps only, using your HQs set well back. Keep your heavy units back. Fund infantry and anti-tank with an extra chit if need be, they are very necessary techs. 2) From the first turn on begin to move Zhukov and the tank and the special forces west. They'll get there in time if you start right away. 3) If you can, take Finland w/advanced tanks and paratrops, but imo Finland is not a key strategic necessity, but protecting your convoy route is. 4) Have a paratroop and air ready for Iran, and a paratroop and fully supplied motorized corps or two ready near Turkey in case he dow's. If Turkey is dow'ed you need to secure at least the easternmost city, and if can hold Ankara for several turns (or for good), it buys you valuable time before the Caucusses fall. 5) The key in Russia imo is the Kharkov to Stalingrad riverline. I didn't fortify this well in my game w/Colin and he overran me. Put your engineer southwest of Kharkov, then build toward Stalingrad as fast as you can, the fast fortifications, not the more time consuming ones. House w/corps and protect with Zhukov. You get the natural defense of the river, now enhanced by fortifications and your best general. 6) You don't need to defend Moscow much if at all. The city the Russian capital moves to is a fantastic defensive barrier from both directions, German and Japanese. You can surrender all that space back to the second capital and still be in okay shape. 7) In general don't intercept the Luftwaffe in the early game, they'll just chew you up as their too experienced. You need to be patient and scout where you can use your air. 8) Build a high tech armor reserve, but don't use until late 1942 or later and probably after you've been pushed well back and probably more in the Fall/Winter of 1942, so the weather protects you. By then you should be able to strike back in overwhelming numbers and possibly close on his forward land units and thus threaten his air units. For all of 1941 and well into 1942 you're trading space for time as inexpensively as you can, preferably with corps only, so any counterattacks should be selective and hit-and-run. I have to remember to be disciplined on the run part, so you don't want to press your counterattacks for too long in the early game as the Axis will chew you up. 9) As the Brits sell that intelligence chit on the first turn and buy an anti-sub and naval warfare and fund these as $ becomes available, that way your scheduled reinforcements arrive w/the tech. Then you can eventually break a sub blockade and keep the Russian convoy open when the time comes. If you have to retreat the RN if your techs are slow, as it's important to maintain a viable navy. In my very first game, w/Rambo, I tried to go toe-to-toe w/his enhanced Kriegsmarine and he easily came out the last man standing. 10) As the Brits, if the Germans showup in Egypt in force fall back toward Nairobi and keep falling back if you have to. An intact Allied battlegroup will be a threat to the Axis Middle East. In general the Allies can't stop the Axis for the first two years +, so don't even try, all your doing is trading space for time. Bob

Game A) Japanese continue slow plod into Russia, their first bombers hit Russian cities and also India. Around India the Allies begin marching into Southeast Asia, met by several Japanese armies with air support. Major sea action off Spain, where the combined USN/RN fleet forces their way into the Med. The Allies, using the previously garrisoned Canary Islands to launch amphibs, liberate Mauratania to open up another port, and then bypass Casablanca and its entrenched German corp and take Algiers instead and then head to Tunis, garrisoned by an entrenched Italian army. The Axis operates over several highly experienced level 3 German fighters plus tactical and strategic bombers and reduce Algiers to rubble to limit Allied supply, and for a short period of time split the Allied fleet, leaving some in the Med some in the Atlantic. The next turn the Axis air and navy hits the Allies on the Atlantic side and sink a couple ships, but then the Allies strike back and pour back through a non-garrisoned Malta port. The allies use carriers with weakened air arms to draw Luftwaffe interceptions, and several Allied air arms are totally destroyed. But the remaining carriers and destroyers sink three subs and the Italian BB, and trap the last Italian sub. Knowing that the Luftwaffe is in Spain, the Russians leave the Kharkov river line and take out a couple German corps. The Russians own Turkey but the Germans are advancing on Ankara, and the entire Middle East is now Russian, with the exception of Alexandria and Cairo. Norwegian rebels keep disrupting supplies indicating no German garrison, so a British corp, after a long sea voyage, lands and liberates Bergen. England is still under the Nazi heel. Game After liberating all of Manchuria the Russians begin a steady pullback, under the weight of the RJN carriers and ample Japanese land forces. Chinese resistance in the center of the country finally crumbles and will be over soon, leaving Western China to continue the struggle. The Brits, amphibing from India, land in the Iraq port and nearby city, but are disappointed to see both reduced to 0 as a result, so that incursion is scaled back. Instead they land around Cairo and Nairobi, which had previously been taken by an Axis level 3 tank spearhead, forcing the Allies to retreat back toward South Africa. The Allies, reassembling around Mogadishu where the Axis offensive petered out, move back toward Nairobi. Allied amphibs land around Cairo and liberate a port, where numerous transports unload and advance on a level 3 German fighter in Cairo. Egyptian rebels have been hitting supplies, so Cairo is only mmps. The fighter departs and Cairo and Nairobi are reclaimed. England is still under the Nazi heel, and the USN has yet to make an appearance.

What is the order in which Russia moves it's capital, and, if Moscow if recaptured does the capital move back there? Thanks, Bob