panzermartin

Apologies for releasing the Trump here.

I'm sorry, as a citizen of EU I refuse to go through another decade of economic misery as it happened when the banks failed and people had to bear the weight. We are not responsible for the war in Ukraine. Everyone was dealing with Russia, not only Europe. Even Trump, was apparently involved in business with Russians. Does that make him an American Berlusconi? Should all American citizens pay the price? Also Europe has paid the aftermath of wars that didn't participate in Middle East, has bear the weight of a huge refugee crisis, has suffered hundred of victims from ISIS terror attacks on its soil and Europe has to pay again? I don't think it's fair and we should keep banging our heads on the wall as Aragorn says.

EU citizens will have to pay for the mess that will follow. Why do we deserve this.

I understand what you are saying about mentality but it is still sounds a bit contradictionary. If Russia is so dumb, worthless , corrupt, incompetent, that cant even contact and accomplish a war against a depleted Ukraine, and can be defeated by Poland, what is the fuss about a grande north atlantic alliance, which was primarly formed to defend against the mighty USSR. What's the point of Europe always needing to have a patron and why Europe can't decide for itself. Its also economic reasons and a dependence on energy I guess. Germany went to war to secure those before, now they were forced to come closer with Russia. I can't blame them Yes despite the flaws, it is a good place to be overall...And I sicerely wish you and Ukraine will get your chance there in the end.

I'm sorry, I'm not following the M4 sherman on social media anymore

Won't argue with that. Apart from the survivability maybe as the Shermans (at least early in the war) had a bad name to the point they were called ronsons from the lighter brand. And we have to at least give credit to the T-34 engineers for impressing their germans colleagues so much, that they based the best tank design of the war on it, the Panther.

So far. But I was speaking in the event of WW3 , and a hypothectical pact of Russia and China. The prelude is very remiscent of the Germany-Japan pact so something like this came to mind. Not across all platforms. For instance S-400 and S-500 are very capable systems not sure if the West can match these. In Artillery it seems even now quantity plays a big role as we see in Donbas, and having simpler parts that dont require maintenance (see M777 issues). I guess the new master of quantity is China. And when this will happen? When Russia reaches Dnipro? They really do fear nuclear escalation and military losses thats why every conflict they have participated was exhaustingly "sanitized". Maybe they will wait for some years with Russia to become Iraq. And again I was speaking about a hypothetical common Russia/China front. Old Europe. Please dont remind me Rumsfeld We shouldnt part with USA of course but EU should be strong enough to find its own way eventually. I suspect once Germany becomes a big military force (admit not always a good idea historically) we will change how we see Europe and maybe people who love big powerful militaries like the US will start to respect them. I still respect Europe for its social achievements more.

Did they lend lease and the 25 million people that had to die to reach Berlin. Geez...So if Ukraine wins this war it will be a NATO victory above all, because of the M777 and the Caesars right....How many of you prefer a rare and pricey sherman in CMRT when you can have a nimble T-34/85 Lend Lease came at the right moment when things were on a turning point but it didnt win the war for the soviets. The West also underplayed USSR and exaggerated its contribution to the war, through popular culture, through politics, through the Cold War lens...Thats why I guess was watching a doc named "Unknown War" from 1978. https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0483223/The eastern front was an unknown unpopular subject in the West up until the 80s. Crazy if you realize that it was the main chapter of the War. Anyway, Cold war distorted things for both sides and the Soviets also lived in their myth that they were the ones that beat Hitler alone but lets not talk nonsense.

Yes, I see them more relying on China on that matter. Especially drone warfare. But they do have a vast experience already in rocket , arty systems, AA etc...Anyway WW3 would be suicidal for all of us, no point making assumptions now.

Yes but in a lengthy world conflict we could see rapid developments of weapon tech. See for example what WW2 brought to technology , starting with biplanes and cavalry and ending with jet fighters, V2 rockets and nuclear. Probably the leap won't be that big but I suspect Russia and China will be sharing any new ideas. Same goes for NATO allies of course.

In the bleak scenario of a hypothetical WW3 an axis of Russia - China seems probably more formidable than the Germany - Japan one . Apart from sheer manpower, nuclear, they also have common borders and can share weapons, tech, etc. I remember the trouble Germans went trough to send Me 262 parts and BMW jet engines folded in a submarine or something to Japan. It never reached its destination.

Yes, I can only seem them surviving as flying APCs, transporting troops to the front while providing some first cover fire. Although most missions of this kind in Ukraine were also a disaster...

Maybe the distance is deceiving but not so spread out as I had thought. The experts here claimed this was a way to cowardly get rid of their weapons and tick mission accomplished in the report. A bit unfair to the pilots. Seems everyone is going indirect in this war from tanks to helos, as there are way too many weapons waiting for the kill. Probably another topic emerging... the end of the helicopter?

I don't think dailymail is a trustworthy source but is this request in touch with reality ? Even US doesn't have so many systems in service. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10914467/Kyiv-issues-list-equipment-wants-win-war-Russia.html#article-10914467

Yes of course. Some point in the distant future this will probably happen. I hope nothing really ugly happens before that to force us to global disarmament. Given the current situation that we are back in increasing nuclear arsenal that point in the future took at least a 100yrs forward bonus

In the end, I think it's not Ukraine who will decide when this war ends but the main western powers and NATO that Ukraine is depending on its life supply. If NATO decides its time to sit on the table, no more weapons or ammunition will be shipped I guess. The question is, what end goal will be good enough for NATO.

How is this offensive and siege possible, (especially in a rapid way), when Ukraine is disadvantage in mechanized, artillery and air assets?

Is Stoltenberg admitting that Ukraine must give away territory for peace, for the first time?

I would say, sinister is not the right word. But US hegemony since the end of WW2 is something we cant debate. Its definetely a modern empire, like the Romans, the British etc. Otherwise why would they need 750 military bases around the World. At this point can comeone answer me, does US spend zillions to maintain those bases just for the sake of protecting other peoples well being. That being said, the western world moved forward and prospered along with the prosperity of post WW2 USA. I still consider them a force of progression and change, I wouldnt want to see them going authoritarian or isolationist. That would probably be the end of the circle of western democracy since it was born in Athens. Yes they are a ruthless capitalist hegemon but they are constantly evolving and have a very vocal progressive and democratic side,( sometimes over the top, as everything american). Our backward religious zealots are probably offended by their LGBT flag next to their embassy emblem here but how cool an official state does that? But there is a dark side , the rampant capitalism and materialism they nurtured, the market driven mentality and the threat towards more social orientated systems they represent . And there is that behemoth, dominant military/gun complex, the black and white approach of the world, the series of miscalculated campaigns that brought turbulance (change?) in the Middle East that other countries had to pay for and handle the consequences. And a half baked job in Ukraine starting in 2014...who knows where that will lead us. Truth is the whole western world much depends on USA's clear thinking and reading of the current situation...Well God Bless I guess...

Yes of course! I was partly joking. But since this is repeated very widely, I will take the chance to note that this started before WW2 and before Nazi Germany revealed its full Nazi potential and intensions, also fooling the Soviets and then invading them to their big shock. Many people bring this to paint a Nazi brotherhood tone on the Soviets but it was more of a pseudo-deal somewhat reminscent to 1918s Brest-Litovsk but of course with the shameful Poland grab. Remember even Ghandi thought Hitler was cool back then, among many many others that didnt favor the British rule.

Crazy and hilarious stuff but since the 50s we have been reading comics, Marvel, Captain America, and watching so many other movies with insane plots of Russian, German, Chinese, Arab baddies getting trashed that it's only natural that someone thought to fill the gaps from the opposite side. Even mainstream Top Gun 2 narrates a strike inside a "Pariah state" that kinda resembles Iran, with Su 57s and F14s. With ala Death Star final run heheh. And it's currently a massive box office hit I might add. And let's not forget the first that tossed the idea is siding with Nazi Germany against the "common enemy" was Patton himself Still, those books are in a very bad taste, but interesting to see the subculture side of Russian propaganda.

Thanks for the insight and I get your points. I sincerely hope for better days for Turkey. I wouldn't want to see them cornered or collapsing, I won't take any joy in that, in fact I find it dangerous. Regardless of the islamist delirium, do you think Turkey is destined to expand westwards as it always pursued. I almost understand the need of Turkey for more access to the sea and in a perfect world where everyone would behave fair, we could probably share the energy wealth of the aegean. That would be beneficial for both, while excluding 3rd parties. But I'm not sure Turkey will stop there if it had the might and the way to go unpunished. So far we are avoiding escalation like the plague, we don't even intercept UAV that loiter over the islands. I sincerely hope there are no thoughts of provoking Turkey for short sighted political gains. That would be silly on our part as we bet a lot on international sympathy and support.

Europe has been an island of normality and peace for decades. There are flaws but I think it does so many things better, especially welfare, healthcare, protection of smaller family business, culture, strict environmental rules etc... We are willing to fight for this but I hope this war won't change things for the worse.

Thanks, seems the Dutch aid didn't get that much media attention.

I can't believe we are bullying Poland, the country that has supported the most and beyond its abilities the Ukrainians so far both in military and humanitarian aid. So, what wealthy Netherlands has done so far for Ukraine? Only piece I could find is " limited number of howitzers" J/k of course but let's put the pressure on the bigger players. On a serious note, does really the Dutch army has only 18 MBTs as Wikipedia implies ?