Desert Dave

Do you think this will satisfy him? Next thing, he will want to know which hex it is that he can use to airlift his sacred planes -- directly from Iraq to Canada!

Bill, you seem to be basing part of your argument on the fact that another game, 3R/A3R, allowed double movement. However, in that game (or others like it) turns were 3 months. The average turn length in SC is 2 weeks, so you are able to move your Air Fleet approximately once a month, or 3 times in that same time span, so in effect you get TRIPLE movement in SC, yes? You also seem to be chafing at an accidental quirk of the map layout. You can fly across the Baltic or Med as the Axis player, you just cannot fly across the North Atlantic as the Allied player. If we get a larger map in a future version, should we then increase your proposed +3 or +4 re-base number so that you are able to -- JUST reach Norway again? However, specific to your Norway concern, you could research long-range air early in the game (... I haven't actually counted the hexes from England to Norway, so I'm not confident that this would solve it), or you could bring up your Carrier for air support until Bergen is secured. Or use the Bomber unit -- which could be abstracted to represent air power in general. I am not sure we should change the rules merely to allow Britain to IMMEDIATELY put an Air Fleet into Norway. And, we DO have re-basing -- it is called Operational movement. I don't like having to dig into the wallet to pay for this any more than you do, but sometimes it is the ONLY way to get immediate re-basing. All of this does not address your logical and pertinent question -- why can't an Air Fleet fly as far as its fuel-tanks will allow? Well, in game terms, you have to account for establishing an airfield and reorganizing the fighter wing. Advancing into Russia must take into account the need to set up suitable facilities to receive the planes, such as preparing the captured airfield or building another one. All in all I must admit that I don't have the same irritation that you do, which doesn't mean that you do not make valid points. I really think that it is a matter of individual game design choices.

Since I routinely try to save MPPs by planning ahead and moving Air Fleets without expending Operational costs, I would be in favor of this, except for one thing. Since there are no requirements that Air Fleets MUST land in cities or air-bases, the rationale for double-movement privileges is not as strong. Other games that have used this rule, also had strict basing requirements that SC doesn't. You had to locate bases to land in, therefore the extra movement was justified. I suppose we can think of the OP movement as covering costs for the engineers to establish airfields, and/or convert civilian sites, etc.

I had been thinking along the same lines, only I figured a base strength of 3. That way you would have a maximum air-strike of 7. This would also partly solve the problem of too much Carrier air strength as compared to land-based Air Fleets. Since I greatly favor the naval game in general, perhaps I am looking for more detail on this issue than is warranted at this scale. :cool: But the Carrier is the only unit that has two distinct components to it. And this would be more critical if there is to be a SC-Pacific version, since the most decisive battles were fought at Sea, and not on land. It is not a major problem in the ETO -- perhaps some compromise adjustment can eventually be made?

ST, can you elaborate on this fix? Long ago, in another thread, someone brought up the point that a Carrier's air-strike ability should be less than a regular Air Fleet, due to far fewer planes. If the Carrier is considered -- part naval vessel, and part aircraft, then what part of the unit is being destroyed in a particular attack? If the Carrier is attacked by other planes, then presumably there would be CAP (... although, as at Midway, there might be "surprise," where the planes are caught below-decks in the hangar or, actually on deck, but not yet launched... this would be vitally important in Carrier battles for a potential SC-Pacific version). If the Carrier is attacked by a surface ship, then the planes would not be attacked, but the hull and superstructure would. Though, I realize that the ability of the planes to even fly is partly determined by how much damage the deck and hangars take. I guess I am asking -- how to determine what part of the Carrier suffers damage, and how is the potential Air-strike affected? At some point, the Carrier itself must be rendered inoperative, though I agree with those who say it shouldn't be "sunk" merely because some of its planes are destroyed while they are conducting an air-strike. We can abstract this to a degree, but the issue remains -- how to separate the naval vessel from the planes it is carrying? :confused:

I was the one who had asked for that. I just re-visited your site, and it is quite efficiently organized. I easily found the help I needed. Not as hard to introduce a "mod" as I would have imagined. Overcoming tentativeness is always the first step. Thanks again for taking the time to do that, and also for starting this fan site. :cool:

So much for the -- walk right in, sit right down, and -- Clean Switzerland's Clock, strategy.

Another good review, so what's that? Hubert's batting 3 for 3! Which is better than any of the current crop of Toronto Blue Jays, eh? Hey! I've got it! Now that Hubert is becoming rich and famous, he can buy the Jays , re-name them the Toronto Fury and who knows? In 20 or 30 years they can challenge the mighty New York Yankees! And, to save a little money -- no need for an error-prone human manager, they can use Hubert's Amazing Logic, or... H.A.L. for short. I can see it now, Summer of 2003... HAL: Lay down a sacrifice bunt. BENCH: But, Skip, we're down 13 to nothing and it's the bottom of the 9th already! HAL: H.A.L. is infallible. BENCH: And there are two outs! HAL: H.A.L. is not only infallible, but has uncountable friends in extremely high places... BENCH: Who's that? -- Spiderman? Yeah, is he still hanging around town trying to solve the garbage collector's strike? HAL: ...and in low places as well, like the waterfront docks of 'Jersey. BENCH: ... Hey Mack! Lay that baby on down... (... ah, c'mon, forget it Jake, nothing we can do... it's... Straha Town ... :eek: )

My, my -- the oddities you'll see... Bill, the drill instructing Midwife. Here's hoping the qualifications for his usual occupation have -- NOTHING AT ALL to do with this one...

Interesting story -- I got claustrophobia just reading about it. :eek: I lived in SW Germany for awhile, and drove through that rugged mountainous area several times, never suspecting the bristling defiles rearing all around. Now, in SC, when I conquer Switzerland, I will at least feel that it has been an uncommon accomplishment!

Congratulations Hubert, that Gamespot review by Scott Osborne can do nothing but help you, I am thinking. I have visited that site for years, and have generally trusted their reviews, although, they do tend to be generic and non-specific at times. If I had never heard of SC-ET when first reading the review, I would surely be extra interested afterwards, and if fact, would probably buy the game based ONLY on what I had read. BTW, one guy -- who knows military strategy, and games, is Bruce Geryk at Computer Gaming World. If you haven't sent him a demo yet, I would. You are beginning to get some good press, and I am really thrilled for you, and the Beta Boys, and for all of us really, who share -- albeit in a very small way, your great adventure.

Great job Straha! That sounds like one helluva game, where and when can I get it! [ July 11, 2002, 02:37 PM: Message edited by: Immer Etwas ]

There is a great board-game called Feudal that was brought out by Avalon Hill in 1967. It has those 4-way elements that you are looking for. The "chess-pieces" are emblematic of knights and bowmen, etc, though, no merry maids stranded in an ivy-overgrown tower. If you stumble across it in a garage sale or elsewhere I would grab it.

Have been trying my darndest to come up with a good rationale for taking Egypt/Alexandria, and I wonder... Let's say you by-pass Egypt and take those gushing oil-wells of Iraq, thereby setting up the possibility of slowly, painstakingly climbing that single mountainous hex into southern Russia (... an alert Russian player could keep you bottled up there for quite some time, probably with only one army, but that's another debate... ). Anyway, would you even receive those MPPs from Iraq unless you controlled an outlet-port to ship them to Germany or Italy? :confused: There is no port in the vicinity except for Alexandria, and there is no continuous-hex land route (say, to Tobruk, and then overseas) if Egypt hasn't been taken. I cannot remember the supply rules concerning this issue (and even if I did, it would do me little good since I have this mental-block about how that supply mechanism works :eek: ), but IIRC, you need a viable route to your home country Capital? Therefore, is it IMPERATIVE to take Alexandria in order to receive those MPPs from Iraq? (though, you do receive the plunder immediately, so that must be different than the usual supply route?)

I have used this tactic myself, and I agree that it is problematical, if not unfair. How about this -- there is a box you can check that allows the game rules/politics to be changed once the game has begun. Allow the Axis (ONLY, since USA and Russia were more independent and not "under the boot" so to speak) to choose WHEN Italy enters the war. The Axis could announce -- "I am now changing Italy from Neutral to Random or Historical entry." I don't know how this would effect eventual Italian entry, since I haven't been paying strict attention to War-entry percentages for Italy, but I assume they would still declare on the Allies fairly soon after the change. If they didn't, well that one or two turn delay would be the price to pay for choosing to save their fleet. Perhaps this would prevent the Allies from ALWAYS using the French fleets to bushwack the Italians, feeling that -- since it is an uncertain possibility, they may as well hunt down subs or defend the north coast of France. Also, this ruse may balance the game a little, because the Axis would have this one small advantage of knowing WHEN Italy is allowed to begin War preparations. Any thoughts?

Considered part of the greater Commonwealth, eh? That makes sense I guess, but now there is less reason to invest time and effort into Afrikan Korps campaign. Maybe some other incentive... Suez port, with ability to circumnavigate the Horn? If all you receive (... getting awful greedy already, and the full game is not even out!) is Alexandria's MPPs, then I wonder if there is enough to justify the transport effort and expense and the bleeding of units away from the Eastern Front? :eek:

Another thing about Egypt -- I have conquered it a couple times, but apparently there is no plunder for doing so? If that's the case, then I'm not sure the Axis strategy should include Egypt at all? I thought maybe you had to "capture or control" EVERY hex in Egypt to receive any bonus, and now that I think of it... I never succeeded in testing this theory before the Demo-time ran out. Does anyone know if Egypt provides a plunder bonus? :confused:

I would agree, Norse, that this is a viable Axis strategy -- it is one I have used myself, and it reflects the actual doctrine of the Germans... but, there is an antidote. The AI may or may not invest in SONAR research, but an Allied PBEM player likely would, and if they are playing someone who seems to favor the sub-pack swarm-strategy, then they SURELY would. Also, instead of investing in the Bomber, they might also invest in another Cruiser? Or long-range air? Or form hunter-killer task-forces right from the outset, to counter the scourge BEFORE it gets out of control? And this is where Hubert's tweaking of the Naval War will really help. Thanks Hubert!!! Now there is the opportunity -- since less damage is done at each encounter, for hit & run and hide and seek and ploy, counter-ploy. Each Admiral will have to decide for themselves when to patrol, when to steam back to port for re-supply or when to repair (before it becomes too late, ie, the smaller the unit the more vulnerable it is). There is tremendous opportunity now for an exciting and meaningful Battle of the Atlantic (Med as well). All of this takes time -- months and months, so it is unlikely, against a good Allied player, that anyone could simply dominate the convoy lanes -- to the tune of 30 to 40 MPPs (... remember, another tweak was to add Liverpool's 10 MPP to the convoy route). Of course, everything will depend on who gets what research Tech, and when. And, whether Industrial Tech will allow such a great expenditure on these kinds of Naval games. Not to forget, that roughly 2000 or so MPPs that Norse is spending in the Atlantic, is NOT being used to parry the Red Menace. You may blithely say that I will put JUST enough into Eastern Front to hold the Russians, but they are rapidly gearing up, and if you do not capture and deny them resources, that Red escalation may make your vaunt UnterSee fleet... superfluous.

With their easy elan, and continuous good grace, and patience, and forbearance, and technical skill, and patience, and joie de vivre and patience and, well, It's not hard to imagine that Hubert and the Beta Boys would be successful at whatever they put their hand to, is it?

The logistical "tail" is about -- what? 6 or 7 times the size of the head? Like one of those old dauntless dinosaurs, maybe killed by a Comet? Speaking of which, I am sometimes an old dinosaur, and sometimes also a Bocage-eating one, who doesn't always know when the clouds are not passing clouds, but airy emphemeral thoughts instead. Anyway, to land ashore, and assemble all the support elements, and establish HQs and perimeters and mulberries and golf-courses for the Officers -- takes time, is all I was saying.

But why should USA be any different? As you say, the R&D can account for amphib tech, but who's to say the Germans couldn't have equalled America's maritime effort? If Doenitz had held sway, then transports would surely have been on his high agenda? And where and when is USA going to conduct a trans-Atlantic invasion? Perhaps North Africa, but they should be penalized just as any other Major Power, shouldn't they? Judging by the (... relative) difficulty they had in Tunisia, against a small German holding force, it would seem that their ability to reorganize and mount an effective offensive was not particularly greater than any others. You shouldn't be able to simply pour tanks and artillery ashore and then make arrow-straight for the opponents Capital. Seems like some game mechanism for a time delay is needed so to ship-shape the troops.

OTOH, closer attention to -- at least the major "details," such as partisans in Greece or other Minors, or combined marine corps landings with Para drops, could very well provide a missing aesthetic that would make the game -- a cut above. Chess is fun, over and over again, with very few bells & whistles, so I agree that the big strategy-picture is most vital. However, since most of us have played many, many WW2 GS games, and read a lot of history, we like those aspects that provide Xtra historical flavor. These are all personal requests, and each game-maker has their own (... usually thoroughly researched) viewpoint. It never hurts to promote what is it that would give you -- the buyer, the most pleasure and re-playability.

Good idea. The cost of transport should reflect a higher cost, since planning and execution involves more than merely lining up the landing craft and setting sail. There would be other support craft, such as mine-clearing and anti-coastal and close-in protection beyond the larger task-force fleets. Perhaps 20% of unit's value would be a good start. And, the idea of R&D for better amphib, as Mr Higgins of Louisiana did for USA is also an excellent approach. In addition, I would like to see lower READINESS when the units do make it ashore. The level of cohesion simply cannot be the same as when invading across a land border. Maybe... one turn at sea, you hit the beach at 80%, and 10% less for each additional turn? This would almost force the invader to include a HQ, else his units would deteriorate quite quickly. It also would eliminate many nuisance raids. I can too easily imagine PBEM players throwing Corps around to cause mayhem on foreign shores. :eek: This should NOT be able to be done so nonchalantly. After all, IRL there were few capabilities to launch nuisance raids -- the Brit Commandos and Italian frogmen are the only two I can think of.

FWIW, a few thoughts on this issue: When you go to a strange country, you abide by the customs, laws, taboos, and are respectful of the culture. Same is true for how you act in your State, City or Village. When you go to someone's house, you don't kick their dog or steal the silverware. I don't really care what the legal intricacies are, I care what Hubert wishes. He has commented on this, and perhaps, will again. That is the final word. Now, well over 95% of us do not have the remotest idea of how to do what that other cipher of a hacker did. We only want a decent game, at a decent price. As someone has said, he will eventually stumble and fall, and next time -- and the way it sounds, there surely will be a next time, the landing may be a bit more brutal. There is an old expression -- just go with the flow. Fit in with your environment. Less stress, worry, anxiety, and soon you are whole and healthy. I will abide by Hubert's requests. Simple. There is no such thing as -- being a little bit pregnant, or a little bit of a Thief. Morals and ethics are not something where you do a little of this, but cheat just a little, at that. They are what makes you... at peace with yourself. Integrity is a personal choice, made every day, in every small way. I am absolutely certain that this will be resolved. Then, we can get back to talking about tactics and strategy and what it is about this game that gives us a common enjoyment.

Hooray Hubert! :cool: Boy, are we ever WITH YOU on that one! This one, the next one, ANY one you care to create!