jtcm

Hi Jeremy, an old post by JasonC, which is well worth pondering (I hope he doesn't mind if I just repaste it). it;s long but worth pondering. ***** Now, as to implimentation of an infantry heavy force in a large ME. You keep your own armor back. It is supposed to hunt enemy armor shooting at your infantry and thus already distracted. Pairs or solo vehicles, not more. Layer your infantry in 2 waves, the first one broader than the following one, which "thickens" the force behind your intended main effort. Gaps are fine, but isolated platoons are not - at least two supporting each other. The first wave should have LOS to the whole frontage, but 1/2 to 2/3rds of its men should be directed at around 1/2 to 1/3 of the frontage. That portion leads the "main body", where the second wave adds depth. The thinner portions of the first wave screen and scout the rest of the frontage. They can go somewhat faster, or employ some split squads to provide deception about numbers in this area vs. that area and where the main body is likely to show up. When I say "first wave", I mean in lines of infantry platoons. But detach some half squads from some of the forward platoons, to have advanced scouts ahead of even the first wave by 1 turn. Advance the infantry platoons from cover to cover, of course. Before contact, keep "traveling" - meaning everyone is moving and more or less maintaining station with each other. On contact, the forward guys stop in the nearest cover. Neighboring platoons lap around IDed enemies. The second rank (or in a pinch lateral transfers) can then "maneuver to KO", meaning plan an assault from this or that direction on the already fixed enemy. Artillery before a rush if there are a lot of defenders - more than a platoon - in the "embraced" area. When you see armor, avoid its LOS by slinking to the back side of whatever cover you are in. If a few units have to run a ways to the rear, so be it. Sneak&hide schrecks to forward sides of cover to restrict livable spots for enemy vehicles. Retreat here or there to draw AFVs into range of the schrecks, if he will "play". Pick enemy AFVs engaging your infantry and hunt them with your own "back" TDs. Try for "keyhole" angles that only allow LOS between the pair you want. That helps show only front armor, avoids distraction, keeps the engagement short, and limits the number of enemies firing back. When you succeed and bag one, relocate the successful TD by reversing out of sight and then picking a new area to intervene. Don't let him track your AFV locations or plan elaborate group "jumps" at stationary TDs. What you want is to set up a sort of "escalation chain". When he has only infantry somewhere, more infantry of your own collects around it and starts beating them. When he sends AFVs forward to help, he can momentarily redress such local odds imbalances. But only by exposing his AFVs to hunting retaliation by your own TDs. So you get an "escalation food chain" - his infantry is "eaten" by your infantry, his AFVs "eat" your infantry, your AFVs "eat" his AFVs. You will have some infantry messed up both in infantry firefights with his and by his AFVs. Just withdraw and rally them - there is no hurry and you have a lot more. You do not need to keep all your infantry engaged all of the time. They don't have the ammo for it anyway. When they doget messed up, you have to give them time to regroup. Use company HQs to put shattered platoons back together, rally left-behinds, etc. Be willing to "fight ugly" with the leftovers, supporting fresher platoons. Two things to watch are (1) heavy caliber off map artillery and (2) direct fire HE from vehicles while in buildings. Do not sit still for either with your infantry. The first is announced by spotting rounds, the second you can see the shooter at least after his first minute engaged. Run to the rear to get out of the beaten zone. Some men may panic and get chopped up - can't be helped. But you can keep your losses to squads rather than platoons on such occasions. And he will run out of off-board ammo and on-board HE shooters before you run out of men if you can limit losses like that. His infantry will seem strongest at the begining. They will start running out of ammo sometime in the course of the battle. Your infantry doesn't shoot when it only sees armor, or is out of action, or taking turns, or in another area. His faces infantry almost continually from contact on. His ammo will be sucked dry. Overwhelm his infantry in the second half of the game by advances to 30-80 meters. Not close combat (he doesn't need ammo for that) or range (you will run out before you kill him at long range). One other thing to understand is that in a truly large fight, you have an enourmous amount of infantry to command. Don't move too fast. It takes longer than moving a few vehicles around, and the overall battle develops slower. Don't worry about objectives until the last third of the game - just take important terrain (in terms of cover, LOS etc, not flags) and above all find and kill the enemy. Don't get too thin side to side. Remember that you will want to wrap around things on contact, so the eventual lines will all be longer than straight-ruled lines across the map. Use depth (2 waves) and tightness-spread (tight as long as still "on-line", spreading as the lines "twist" and lengthen) to concentrate. Obviously you must also conform to local terrain. By the second half of the game, you want your edge in remaining good order squad infantry to be large enough that you can just pick heavily covered areas and infest any you please with more infantry than your opponent can dig out. Walk infested areas around or onto flags. Continue the "pick off" game against his AFVs with your own TDs. But he should have to come to you. You needn't chase him, once you can put infantry on all the objectives.

This just in from Capt Broadbent, Sir. No, they didn't take the town, Sir. He had C co. with two platoons from E company, and some 81 mm support. Sir ? Well, he told me he gained a foothold in the town, and sent screens on both flanks, but they ran into a German company which had the same ideas, and... Sir ? To cut it short, Sir, he got whittled down on both flanks, and then while he was busy on that account the Germans just ran a platoon into the town with flamethrower support, and drove him out. Casualties ? Pretty heavy, his men got shot up pretty bad. About half his force wounded or killed, Sir. Yes, Sir. No, Sir.

I for one am reassured and moved to know that someone who actually served-- a real warrior rather than a wargamer-- thought about these issues and reflected on what it meant to kill someone. I'm as rah-rah (if vague and incompetent) a wargamer, as zap-bang a military-history reader, as the next man or woman, but I respect what Parabellum had to say. I've just read Michael Asher, The Real Bravo Two Zero, debunking of the accounts of the famous SAS mission: by talking to locals and travelling over the terrain, Asher reconstructs, not huge firefights accounting for 250 Iraqis, but a ill-prepared patrol discovered quickly by three Bedouins (2 being veterans from Iraqi forces with combat experience), who politely fired a shot above their head to find out if they were hostile or not; a retreat not hounded by Iraqi troops in APCs, but by armed civilians and policemen (not one of which was killed, it seems). It's a good piece of source criticism. Not quite relevant to the present thread, of course. But a very humane piece of writing; will also make the reader wonder about all these war stories she's been reading over the years.

Ich bin laum wuerdig, den deutschen Infanteristen in den Kampf zu fuehren.

Frankreich, den. 6 Aug. 44, 2.30 morgens. Yet another case of insufficent concentration of forces ! I am not worthy to lead the German infantryman into combat.

[Allied tactical victory, 120 casualties (40 KIA) to 70 (17)] Counter-attack made little impact on enemy line. Attack broken by enemy artillery, also balance of fire-fights disadvantageous. Heavy losses sustained (50 % attacking force). Some enemy support elements and infantry destroyed. **** Frankreich, den 5. August 1944. 21:30. 2 Companies Infy sent forward, with 2 Stugs, 2 assault HTs (75 mm how) support. Plentiful Schrecks, 2 81 mms, 120 mm mortart support Terrrain undulations, woods on flanks, in middle depression behind woods. Hence likelihood enemy in three clusters of woods; support unclear when starting off. ***** Formation adopted 1 plt forward screen, three plts main line, 2 plts reserve. Screen taken under heavy pre-registered mortar fire, v. heavy losses, Pushed forward until contact with enemy on left and centre, no enemy presence on right, so appeared enemy had refused flank on that side 120 mm fire called down on enemy positions, while left, centre and right plts ordered forward. In centre, heavy losses from staggered enemy mortar fire; enemy infantry retired. Loss of HT-75mm to enemy mortar fire On right, platoon advanced, but held up by long range fire from Sherman. One reserve plt sent on this side, to turn flank under cover woods. On left, HT-75 destroyed by ATG; 81 mm fire directed on ATG, followed by direct HE fire from one Stug. Infantry pushed forward, engaged one plt, took heavy losses. Remaining reserve plt thrown into firefight on this side. Enemy responded with reserve plt of his own, seasoned veterans, thrown in with exquisite timing: small arms skill and infantry small unit manoeuver skills (ambushing, falling back, flanking moves) much in evidence. Our effort on this wing broken. Medals for the Tommies. In centre, 2 Stugs shifted to engage enemy Sherman. Destroyed in first exchange of fire; HE fire brought to bear on enemy infantry, which fell back into woods. Impossible to dig out, Stugs having run out of HE. Withdrew remaining forces, including plts engaged in firefight on the right, where inflicting losses on enemy. Later heard from Lt Witt as he retreated that he guessed there was an ATG waiting for the Stugs. Wolff told me he also had had an odd feeling, and decided not to drive on. Kersteter ist schwer verwundet, Hardenberger auch. Hacker und Graf sind tot. Witt hat sein Foto seiner Doris im Wald irgendwo verloren (armer Witt !)

The long range AT fire refers to the training scenario, "Fire and Manoeuver", that comes on the CM CD-ROM: 76 mm fire over open ground 1000 m away. Point taken about the emphasis on manoeuver elements rather than HE. I noticed-- as you pointed out-- that with a v. full complement of armour, I was less careful about micromanaging the placement of each time, just trusted more in speed and mass. But that might be wrong; and "Fire and Manouver", the scenario, shows that massed armour in the face of unsuppressed long range AT guns with interlocking fields of fire is not the way to go, speed or no speed

When I tried out a 2000-er, it was the infy version, so 2 Cos VG, some 120, 6 Stug-III, 2 StugH, five Schrecks. Since they were Green troops and I had some left over points, i splashed out on 150mm IGs, and also (probably horribly impossible in historical terms) some 150 rkt, which i threw into the mix once action had started. On the other hand, i tried to play the way you suggest for the scenario "Fire and Maneuver", but the long range AT fire quickly reduces any attempt at armoured fist...

I tried your "2000-pointer" with green troops, Axis assault against US. It worked quite well, with the proviso that my opponent rushed his set up because I told him i wanted to go to bed a little earlier. So my apologies to him (if he reads this). Since we played green troops, i added 3 150 mm IGs, which played all over the central area. In 20 minutes the right flank was driven in, and infy plts wheeled left. The fog probably aided the assault, too. Good night

thank you murph

Thanks Adam-- the theme this time is a certain variety of ponderous German humour, which i have sometimes come across. Best wishes j

The Amis came for us at dawn. Osf. Grozt and his SS-men, only a plt strong, had gathered a whole Co. of Volksturm to join the fun. On the way a Stug appeared. The party was laid out on the left, in some woods, with mines, pre reg. mortar fire and a plt to guard the flanks; so the old men and boys went into the woods to lay the table. The guests soon came, and they got plentiful helpings, twice. But the third time it all proved a little much, and the Amis had brought some loud music of their own, and the Volksturm plt decided to withdraw a little to rest. later on, more guests came on this side, and the Volksturm, after trying to surprise them with an invitation to dance, really decided that enough was enough. On the right, Grosz decided the Volksturm plt. must be bored, so he ordered half of it forward, to crash the Ami party. They got into a wooded hollow, where they proved very unwelcome guests indeed. Mortars set the woods on fire; no one had given advance warning that this was a barbecue party. The Amis had decided to surround the Volkstuermer in the hollow, and mounted a church on a hill; Grosz decided to send in his best band, two squads of SS men, to give greetings to the Amis in the church. It was an awkward occasion: one squad liked it so much it decided to stay on; one squad hated it and came out running. All for little results, really. Some more Ami guests came in their vehicle, but it had some trouble from a nearby stovepipe (Ofenrohr). The Stug pulled up and started to admire the church where the Amis were having their party, and decided to sent some presents their way. But the Ami Big Boys pulled up, and knocked the Stug out. More and more Amis started pouring forward, in the middle of things. The forward reception committees were overwhelmed, and had to leave the scene, a little precipitously. The people on the right, still bored, came to join in the fun with MG fire, and one US squad proved a little shy, refusing to dance for more than a few minutes before hightailing it. ***** Grosz to HQ. Enemy recon in force has turned my position on left, in spite initial successes and scattered units in centre. holding action initiated from right. Enemy estimated C0 +, with some armoured support. Stug lost, 30+ KIA or missing, 80 wounded. The Volksturm element fought heroically. Enemy AC destroyed, but not tanks in support enemy infantry

[recon rules, 600 point Axis probe. Draw. Axis 100/30, UK 80/20] A Co. ordered to recon important cross roads under hill reported enemy activity. If possible dislodge and occupy. Extra plt of seasoned troops, passing through after refitting, will join in the fun. Armoured car, HT with MG to provide support. 81 mm support. **** Hmm, thought the captain after hearing the report from motorcycle scouts. A big hill, heavily forrested in front, open ground to the left and right, the cross roads in the low ground in front of the hill, a small village on the cross roads (what was its name again ?), then rising ground beyond the village, to another ridge, heavily wooded too. Scouts report that Tommies are digging in (sounds of spades, orders, activity). Hmmm, thought the captain. They will expect us to come through the woods under the hill. Let's oblige them. Hmmm, thought the captain, I think I'll ask some boys from HQ to join us: a LMG unit, and a sniper. ***** Hpt Schulmeister to HQ. Have gained strong foothold around cross roads but no progress to be made without reinforcement. Enemy element paratroop. estimated Co. strength with support weapons including 75 mm howitzer on commanding ground. Have taken losses 1 plt destroyed, heavy losses to other 3 plts. MGs installed on high ground and also open terrain on right flank using cover and buildings. Also AC deployed this flank. Long range fire throughout engagement. Whole plt sent down hill into woods carelessly spread out as half squadsso as to draw fire, reveal enemy units and pin attention. Mortared without too severe losses; advanced up by bounds to cross-roads engaged enemy but ultimately overwhelmed firefight. Reserve plt committed as support, but embroiled costly fire fight in built area. on left, infantry rush 2 plts timed to coincide with smoke screen, dashed over ridge line ran into woods in low ground, enemy plt overwhelmed with support MG fire. moved forward till contact with enemy third plt solidly entrenched houses on hill. One plt under fire howitzer, losses. Second plt send on flanking manouever, rushed howitzer, command element, 2 in mortar **** HQ to Schulmeister Losses unacceptable esp use of decoy plt Are you mad Profligacy in men and ammo intolerable in present times. results below expectations, esp. with extra plt and armor. Under whose authority did you borrow Pinger with MG 42 and Scharfschuetze Fell ? Please report immediately Leave in Berlin cancelled repeat cancelled, ***** Schulmeister to HQ Have already ordered birthday cake have you idea difficulty finding flour, sugar, eggs in spite daytime bombing

Thanks, Adam, for your comments. Very skillful, and bloody job. The constant layering of defence was a nightmare, a real grind. Without heavy arty, such hard going. On my right, I went in rather hap hazardly, and paid for it: oh the cruelty of that 120 mm barrage ! In the centre, my scouts stopped to enjoy the view. I was hoping something would appear, and was preparing to do some recon by fire with the scout car, but the sky fell in on that poor squad. At least they soaked up some of that precious 120 mm, which could have messed up the attack on the left... On the left: i'll now know to keep up the speculative fires a little longer. I saw various places where there could be something nasty. and peppered them with some .50 fire, but obviously should have done that with concentrated fire from support weapons. Also some smoke would have done wonders. Good to know that the 60 mm and 81 mm was annoying on that side. All in all, a solid lesson in tactics-- in other words, a good thrashing. Thanks for the game, and the kind words. j

thanks for the advice-- it gives a different complexion to the might-have-beens ! Yes, I should have kept the tanks back, blasting away-- after enemy pulled back, at some storied buildings where enemy sniper was hiding; and moved carefully. I always hesitate: go fast and hope that speed will protect ? hunt and trust in firepower ? Send tanks singly so that the other can stay in reserve and hopefully watch out ? Send them together to mass fire if trouble occurs ? I thought i was doing that, and lost both tanks, in the space of perhaps 15 seconds of good shooting by a fresh 75 mm team-- I knew then that I wouldn't crack the German line

thanks Jason. I hoped that by attacing on both sides I could pin down any efforts at shifting reserves. In the event, both his flanks proved strong enough to defeat the split attacks on their own. On my left, if the infy had gone far enough they would have screened for the ATG; but they could go far only if the the tanks pulled up to support; I moved them too fast, carelessly, in my haste to break those entrenched German VG squads-- crack, crack, clean flank shots-- in the gap between some woods ! Dem Krauts is tuff

Dear Tom, Today we had a pretty tough day Golly you can say that again It was a lot harder than sophomore year at college. The Capt ordered me forward to attack these sneaky Krauts so on we went and they were in this wood so I deployed my platoon like they taught me to and we were doing pretty good since they fell back, but all of a sudden these big mortar shells started falling all around us out of nowhere. After that we waited awhile, then the Captain told me to keep moving so we pushed foward but the enemy was pretty strongly entrenched in this wood, and when B platoon came up with Bill Cox they got it pretty hot too from those darned mortars, we tried to close in with the enemy after a bit of mortar fire of our own, but they were too strong and we were cut to ribbons, I hid with the Sargeant while the enemy fell back, then we slipped back to find some guys from the recon plt they were pretty unhappy too Don't worry, I am fine. Your cousin

[1000 point US attack. Axis major victory] From the diary of Capt. Gable: 11/2/44 Ordered by Bttn to seize village called [illegible] on strategic crossroads under hill. Given I Company + one recon plt with three scout cars + M10, Sherm 105, Sherm, mortar support. No clear idea what to expect. We went in at 700, using hill to screen jumping-off position. Three scouting parties sent out, one over the crest of hill, severely mortared and destroyed, one party left, one party right, each with a plt as reinforcement. After 10 min. contact with enemy screen made, much stronger than expected. On right, A plt, then B plt fed foward: both mauled by skilful mortar fire during manoeuver, and firefight with enemy plt in wood. Bought M 10 forward in support, knocked out support gun. Attempt to reduce plt in wood, by combination mortar fire and speculative MG fire, followed by infantry assault by remnants two plts. They were cut down by infy fire On left, contact made with enemy advance screen, but soon driven off by .50 fire from scout car, also mortar fire from 60 mm park. Moved up support elements, personally supervising advance; also pushed infy plt + remnants scout squad; scout car destroyed enemy gun; armored support also advanced. One enemy plt destroyed, second enemy plt detected further back. Long range tank fire to try to flush them out into 81 mm barrage. Ineffectual: when attrited plt pushed forward, met with strong resistance. As armor moved forward, knocked out by hitherto unnoticed AT gun. Withdrawal on this flank. Attempt to manoeuver support elements, remnants infy on right, in order to engage enemy reserve plt [prob command elements with close protection plt] (also taken under 81 mm fire) ultimately unsuccessful. Sgt Arabian in the M-10 seems to have cracked, and drove his TD forward in the old cavalry spirit, shooting at the enemy reserve plt with his M2. He survived fire by an infantry gun and a Panzerschreck. After that the fighting died down. I asked Battn for reinforcements reply negative. Withdrew at 930 unmolested prob. enemy as rattled as I was. A Co no longer combat capable, 50 men killed and 100 wounded. One plt destroyed, two plts gutted. Also Bttn recon plt knocked out. Memo: get new socks, cigarettes. Lt Hardy down with the GIs. Thank Molly for bullet-stopping properties copy "Little Women".

Ah well, reinventing the wheel-- again. Still, CM CPX could be fun on a smaller scale than the Meta-campaign.

Don;t forget to go to the National Army Museum in Chelsea (London) !

The Mower Philip Larkin The mower stalled, twice; kneeling, I found A hedgehog jammed up against the blades, Killed. It had been in the long grass. I had seen it before, and even fed it, once. Now I had mauled its unobtrusive world Unmendably. Burial was no help: Next morning I got up and it did not. The first day after a death, the new absence Is always the same; we should be careful Of each other, we should be kind While there is still time. http://books.guardian.co.uk/news/articles/0,6109,713613,00.html

I like the "implementer" idea v. much. Of course, if two commanders compete, they can't give orders to their subordinates on ICQ ? or do they need their private "room' for that ? The battle could actually be set by a "fifth party", i.e. double blind for both A commander and A implementer and B commander and B implementer. Then, as with Tacops, abundant AARS and post-motem discussion needed. The idea came to me while playing TCP: I'd sometimes pretend that the combatmission.com ICP was HQ, and that i was radioing back for (preferably) Tigers or 155 mm support. And what if I'd received instructions "Take the hill at all costs" or "save your arty" ?

Just an idea for a new way to play CM, inspired by the TacOps CPX: the idea is to have two players duke it out on TCP / IP, but for one of the players to be directed via orders from "HQ" on ICQ (combatmission chat). Needed; Player A HQ element Player B 1. A, B and HQ agree on a scenario-- e.g. downloaded one, CD-ROM, or QB with map posted for HQ to look at (e.g. in view 5 or 6). Co. size, or perhaps Bttn size engagement. 2. A and B set up to play in TCP. HQ prints out map to try to follow or imagine the action, 3. HQ element (one or more people on combatmission chat) send orders to A, whether broad, Auftragstaktik (move to the cross-roads, seize commanding ground) or Befehlstaktik (keep plt A in reserve, push forward with armour)-- A interprets and implements 4. A tries to report succintly and accurately to HQ; HQ issues orders, asks questions. 5. Arty dependent on release from HQ etc. 6. B plays normally, except that his opponent will probably prove curiously unresponsive. 7. At end, A and B report, and preferably post (where ?) screenshots ***** obviously, A can do whatever he pleases, if he decides not to play along; the HQ element can decided to play gonzo (no arty; "take that hill at all costs or get court-martialled"); the whole thing could be quite boring. But i thought it might be interesting to try out. Any takers ? A variant would be to organize say 4 people, Bttn commander + 3 Co. commanders to give orders to one "executer" who plays against the AI on his computer and sends back reports. (closer to the TacOps version). Just an idea, any way.

Played against AI (Germans, +1 +25%) Tactical vitory, 669 (213) to 327 (100) AAR * * * * * * * * * * * * Strong attacks through covered terrain on both flanks. Two plt pushed forward on left to attempt spoiling attack, lost insufficient recon. Advance defence with Glider plt on left, enemy armoured elements destroyed Gammon bombs PIAT and 6 pd ATG. 2 plt reinforcements thrown into firefight on left flank. Infiltrated enemy light MG element destroyed. Heavy losses taken, enemy infy SS destroyed Co strength estimated, enemy reinforcements advancing. Right flank long range 6 pd fire destroyed 2 SPGs. Strong enemy infy attack under fire from advanced light batty 75 mm, delay. Contact made with 64 Med Reg RA, highly effective 4.5 in fire brought to bear on enemy advance, also 75 mm fire. Enemy armour destroyed by 17 pd 6 pd fire. Enemy infantry SS Pioneers overran 75 mm battery, advance plt; repelled heavy losses, esp. when 11 Bttn reserve thrown into fight. effective flanking fire from plt in advanced position in centre. Enemy reinforcements on left flank beinging enfilade fire to bear. Advance OPS in centre(2 in mortar park + CO; snipers clear fields fire) overrun.

Well, i was, at any rate (the J. J. Annaud movie with Jude Law playing Zaitsev, Rachel Weiss playing his girl, R. Harris playing the German sniper). Detestable. best j