Treeburst155

It looks like this here tourney is running smoothly. This is good because I just received word that I will have to work tomorrow. It might even be a very long day. Evidently, my employer does not know that HOLIEN is the one who is supposed to be working long hours. I simply don't have the time to work! Fight On! Treeburst155 out.

You lost that game, Steve, because you bogged! You don't remember it because you're a grog who likes realism and one who doesn't care if he wins or loses because it's all a bloody roll of the dice anyway. Treeburst155 out. [ January 10, 2003, 08:04 PM: Message edited by: Treeburst155 ]

Greetings! Here is what it looks like so far: Overflow Tourney Roster: Linden* Egbert* Bullitt* Riverrat* Ivan_RU* Knaust* c3K Asschen Uberman Becket SgtGoody * denotes guaranteed slot (moved from replacement list) Treeburst155 out.

Wow, Sripe! You have a few really quick PBEMers in your section. WineCape, Don't you dare drink the prizes the men are fighting and dying for! Holien, Get back to work!! To All, Fight On!! (except Holien, who should be working) Treeburst155 out.

This thread has nothing to do with the luck involved in CM. It is one big bogging gripe by players who preferred CMBO's bogging characteristics to the current one. If you want BFC to make changes relating to bogging you're gonna have to come up with some very good, well documented reasons. I guess I'll have to start my own thread if I really want to talk about ways to minimize luck in CM without sacrificing realism. Bogging, schmogging!!! Treeburst155 out.

Great post, Notalex. Treeburst155 out.

Colonel Deadmarsh, Choosing high ground pressure vehicles does not involve luck. It is a calculated risk you choose to take. The risk is higher in CMBB than in CMBO. This is your real complaint, not that there is too much luck in CMBB. Aircraft is the real luck factor. Down with aircraft!! Treeburst155 out. [ January 10, 2003, 12:09 AM: Message edited by: Treeburst155 ]

One does not have to sacrifice realism to any great degree to keep luck to an acceptable level for the strategy gamer. Just do away with unnecessary things that quite often played no roll in real battles anyway. Aircraft and reinforcements with a small chance of arriving come instantly to mind here. Treeburst155 out.

If a designed scenario utilizes vehicles with high ground pressure and muddy conditions with few (if any) roads that are safe to use (enemy fire), then one would hope that the designer has taken into consideration that many of the player's vehicles will get stuck. If he has, you should still have a fun scenario. If not, you'll see an early surrender. The situation is similar with aircraft. If one player NEEDS the aircraft to arrive and hit certain targets in order to win, and this doesn't happen, you have a highly unbalanced scenario. Balance in this case is determined by luck. How is this similar to the bogging example above? In both cases the designer did not consider likely possibilities that will severely affect balance. Treeburst155 out.

I agree with Fionn's definition of skill too. Unfortunately, we don't have a panel of experts to decide who demonstrated the most skill in a given battle. We have only the score. Treeburst155 out. [ January 09, 2003, 07:49 PM: Message edited by: Treeburst155 ]

Now this is a topic I want to sink my teeth into. Luck abounds in CMBO, and moreso in CMBB. Steve says this is because they are making the game as realistic as possible. Realistic simulation of WWII battlefield = substantial luck. I don't think this can be denied; BUT, I don't want to play Yahtzee or Candy Land. At the scale of a typical CM battle, realistic luck can very easily determine the battle rather than player skill in SOME scenarios IMO. That is one reason I like the larger battles where luck is more likely to even out. That is also the reason I dislike aircraft, variable reinforcement times, extreme low visibility battles (friendly fire), and variable turn endings in attacks and assaults. BTW, poor ground conditions do not bother me (except in small battles) because risk of bogging is proportional to how many meters the player chooses to move off-road. Calculated risk is not luck. Some just want to command troops and deal with realistic situations and problems (luck). Winning is not as important to these people as enjoying the experience of playing. Some want to test their tactics against others in a clash of minds, as in chess. This is the strategy game mindset. As CM gets more realistic (luck prone) the latter group will tend to voice gripes. I lean toward the strategy game group myself, and to them I say dump the aircraft, play big battles, use fixed endings, stay away from foggy nights, variable entry of reinforcements, random settings in QBs, and anything but dry conditions(if bogging bothers you). You should be able to 'adapt and overcome' when it comes to the numerous remaining luck elements. If you do all this and still think CM is too luck prone, I would suggest chess. It's a fun game, and your opponent can't blame his loss on bad luck. Treeburst155 out. [ January 09, 2003, 06:35 PM: Message edited by: Treeburst155 ]

Woohoo!! Now if I can just get John and Tuomas straightened out. Treeburst155 out.

Nidan1, As of this post, "The Beast" has once again been sent to you. Keep your fingers crossed. Treeburst155 out.

It's been my experience that the Soviet units are um....inferior. For example, the Soviet infantry have to throw bottles of gasoline at tanks to knock them out. In cold weather the German tankers probably welcome this. The following twelve players drew the schedule that yields four games as the Soviets. Although their chances of doing well in the tourney are just as good as anyone else's (their play is compared to other Soviet players), playing the Soviets takes a bit more finesse IMO. Those who drew the Soviet card: Enoch, Kanonier Reichmann, Gunnersman, MickOZ, Cpt_T, Frunze, Lord Dragon, WadePM, Wellsonian, Steve Fielding, Shocktrooper, Joe_Cz Thanks guys. I'll make sure you have a more balanced schedule in the next tourney; UNLESS, like Frunze, you PREFER playing the Soviets. :eek: The way it works is that the third name on the player file for each section draws the lopsided schedule. I have always let the chips fall where they may; but with CMBB, I think I'll keep track so I can 'spread the wealth' from tourney to tourney. Hmmm....I think I will ask for Soviet volunteers from now on. Treeburst155 out. [ January 09, 2003, 04:36 PM: Message edited by: Treeburst155 ]

At this point I am assuming that everyone has files for FIVE games except for John Kettler and Tuomas. If you do not have all five of these emails, let me know ASAP. Remember, this tourney operates under complete Fog Of War! Say nothing about your games other than progress reports on files exchanged. Fight On!! Treeburst155 out.

Overflow Tourney Roster: Linden* Thom Bradley* Bullitt* c3K Asschen Uberman * denotes guaranteed slot (moved from replacement list) Treeburst155 out.

If you're interested in signing up for the overflow tourney go here: http://www.battlefront.com/cgi-bin/bbs/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=23;t=005148 Treeburst155 out.

Thanks, Frenchy. Be patient with your German opponents. Some setups take time. To All, Periodic updates as to your progress, just like Frenchy has done above, are very helpful to me. I am made aware of potential problems, and can easily determine how to score a battle, should it go incomplete. (I will know who to blame). I will have a history right here on the forum. It would be nice if all players would post weekly progress reports to this thread (better than email), especially if you have some slow moving games. Treeburst155 out. Make sure you get the win if a game goes incomplete! For that I need documentation! [ January 09, 2003, 02:53 PM: Message edited by: Treeburst155 ]

It appears there is enough interest in the Boots & Tracks ROW III tourney to justify a smaller tourney (no prizes) so more people can enjoy the ROW experience. If you would like to play in this event you need only email me with the subject, "Overflow". In the body, type your forum name and the email address you would like to use for tourney related mail. I cannot guarantee you will get to play! There are several reasons for this. I need to have multiples of six for one thing. Also, I will have to cut it off at a maximum of 24 players due to the work involved. Finally, there are a dozen players on my replacement list for the main ROW III tourney who have priority if they wish to switch to this event. I WILL process signups in the order they are received however. It will take time to get this tourney organized so it will be about two weeks before it starts. Before you send a sign-up email, you should consider the fact that you will be playing FIVE PBEM games simultaneously, and trying to get them finished in 100 days. There is a significant time committment involved! The following people have priority status: 1) sgtabell 2) Beckman 3) Ace Pilot 4) Cuzn 5) Mark Gallear 6) White4 7) Diceman 8) Ivan_RU 9) Knaust 10) NotreDame89 11) Tanaka 12) Ratman 13) Liken 14) Lindan 15) Thom Bradley 16) Bullitt Treeburst155 out.

The fellas keep cranking 'em out! Thanks, guys! Treeburst155 out.

Yeah, Toumas' email is down for the count. I got the first two scenarios to him as far as I know. We'll just have to wait until he checks the thread like a good ROW player should. If he's out of touch for much more than a week I'll replace him. Players and replacements should check this thread at least twice per week just for situations like we're experiencing right now with Tuomas. If somebody's email goes down, this is the only way to communicate. I'm starting to get fresh sign-ups for an overflow tourney. Because my work is slow this month I'm going to go ahead with it. I want to get the main event running smoothly first, and see who we lose. When things settle down, I'll launch the overflow sections. Fight On!! Treeburst155 out.

Free Kitten, Very interesting.....and thanks for being interested in making this possible. I don't know what size the average PBEM movie file is. I'd guess about 700 KB with the largest being a little over 2 MB. It might be difficult to collect all the files from players. They would have to be diligent about keeping track of which files are the movie files, and then they would have to cooperate by sending all these file AND the passwords. The idea sure would make for some good AAR visuals. Ryddle, I'll send you a couple of AARs from previous tourneys. Hmmm... maybe Kingfish would rather handle that? Anyhoo, we'll get you some examples. Come to think of it, there may already be examples posted on the Boots & Tracks site. Check my sig. Treeburst155 out. [ January 08, 2003, 09:36 PM: Message edited by: Treeburst155 ]

That's an interesting idea, Free Kitten; but somebody with the resources would have to volunteer to host the files. They would also have to record all the various passwords. Hmmm....a PBEM movie file archive....I'd like something like that too. Treeburst155 out.

I just sent the "Beast" for a third time as of this post. Treeburst155 out.

Nidan1, The three missing files have been re-sent. Because it appears you received the Debrecen files several hours after they were sent, let's wait it out, and see what turns up in your box over the next several hours. Treeburst155 out.