Robert Olesen

Before you pick your forces. At the screen where you pick side. That's actually after the computer has purchased the forces it is allowed to buy. Bear in mind that the experience label on the enemy units doesn't change when you increase the computer experience bonus, only the behaviour.

Scarhead, that's not a problem. I obviously want to factor the experience effect into ROQC, but in this particular case I was concerned with an AI strength comparison for a single battle, not in particular how this affects the player's ability to accumulate core force experience. It obviously may affect that, but that's incidental unless the effect is unbalancing. Thanks. Where I come from (Western Jutland), "Not bad" is actually equivalent to "very good" in most other places.

So, Scarhead, the short version of your answer is: It depends. That's true, ofc. But I don't agree that BFC necessarily got the cost vs. difficulty comparison right. They had a lot of numbers to input, and I find - personally, that is - that the fitness cost modifiers don't match the difficulty the fitness changes introduce. And besides, the experience bonus is a separate handicap, it is probably not meant to be compared to a cost change. Also, I noticed when doing my own cost samples that artillery and some armor units had a lower cost increase progression than infantry. And I don't think the amount of experience you can accumulate vs. the various forces is a useful comparison factor. I'm looking for a comparison of the difficulty you have in achieving your objective or, to put it simpler, to win the battle according to the CMBB victory criterion. I'll go with the rule of thumb I mentioned above to start with. It can't be all wrong.

OK, here are some numbers based on a sample of units (four German, four Soviet, June 42, different purchase categories) Each experience level adds ca 14% to the cost (that's probably programmed to be 15). This gives the following comparisons, approcimately: Conscript: 100 Green: 114 Regular: 128 Veteran: 149 Crack: 168 Elite: 190 These are approximations, and the cost increase seems to be less for artillery than for infantry. So, the rule of thumb is: - Going up one level corresponds to ca. 15% cost increase. - Going up two levels correspond to ca. 30% cost increase. - Going up three levels correspond to ca. 50% cost increase. This applies to all level jumps, not just from Conscript. Now bear in mind that a change from +50% to +100% handicap is a 33% relative increase in the total enemy force size. So, according to the data above +100% should be equivalent to +50% with +2 computer experience bonus. Do you think that is a fair assessment of the actual difficulty difference? Would you rather face 2000 points of Conscripts than 1500 of Regular troops? Or 2000 points of Regular troops instead of 1500 points of Crack troops? Similar calculations can ofc. be made. From +25% to +50% is a 20% relative increase, indicating +1 experience bonus. +50% to +75% is a 17% relative increase, indicating +1 [ September 23, 2003, 03:11 PM: Message edited by: Robert Olesen ]

Scarheard, that's an obvious way of loking at it that I haven't thought of. I'll do a few computations. But there's also the aspect of player perspective, as atiff points out. For example, if you were up against a +100% enemy force, and you were to trade that with +50% and +x computer experience bonus, which value of x would you feel gives you the same challenge? The point value does not necessarily reflect the difficulty. For example, weakened troops cost 90% of fit troops, and unfit costs 80%. That does not in my experience reflect the handicap of being unfit or weakened - the cost reduction should be higher to accurately relect the handicap, at least when you're attacking. [ September 23, 2003, 06:35 AM: Message edited by: Robert Olesen ]

In ROQC I have been using the force size handicap to model difficulty levels for the player. I'd like to make use of the computer experience bonus as well, but I'm sure as to how these two compare with each other. I haven't used the computer experience bonus myself and I don't have the time to play a lot of battles to check it out. I'm hoping that someone here has accumulated some experience on this and is willing to share it. For example, is +100% equivalent to +50% and experience +2, +75%/+1, +50%/+1 or something else? I'd love to have a rule of thumb, e.g. +25% matches +1 experience bonus - but that may not be possible.

I had to make a few error corrections in the spreadsheet. Do a new download if you made one before reading this (not applicable to people who got the 0.98a spreadsheet via email). There is one change you should be aware of: You must specify Battle Type in the parameters screen in the editor. The setup sheet helps you remember this.

ROQC version 0.97 has got pretty much all the stuff I envisioned, so I expect the next version to be 1.0 after a suitable stabilization period. Get it at the usual place It has the Finnish regon and an automatic battle generator which I expect you'll love. The only snag is that you need to be able to use the spreadsheet in order to make it work. It gives you a page containing all the relevant setup info with basically just one click. I took the opportunity to add a few other things I have been considering for some time, so that it would be pretty much complete. But I expect that a bit of balancing is still needed, so I'll let it simmer for a period, probaby a couple of weeks. The changes are: - Finnish region added. - One Click battle setup . Spreadsheet updated with automatic generation of the data required for setting up a battle, eliminating most of the need for consulting the rules while setting up a battle. - Favor limits for your CO in determining experience gains increased. Favor limit for negative experience of HQ?s changed from -10 to 0. - Promotion and Demotion now occurs after three very good or very bad battles, not four, and the promotion limit now scales with the maximal amount of Favor you can get. - Tree coverage table changed slightly to reduce probability of extreme results. - "S" column of Operational Order table corrected to get more Attack and Hold orders - Returning Replacement table adjusted. - Rules for easier upgrading of obsolete units added. - HQ bonus abilities can now be rolled for every time you pass an experience value divisible by 10, not just the first time. - Experience adjusted to allow for more rapid experience gain for infantry. - Unit classifications added to provide a more balanced experience update. - Extended Campaign variant removed The only major missing feature is the remaining nationalities (minor axis allies, polish, partisans), but I have a feeling that the demand for these will be small. [ September 19, 2003, 07:34 AM: Message edited by: Robert Olesen ]

Hey Sardaukar, please drop me an email telling me a bit about your experiences (or post them at the ROQC thread - see my sig). I might learn something from those twists you're using.

IMO there is no "best" campaign system. It all depends on your own preferences. You need at least to set up som criteria for what's good and bad in your opinion to be able to discriminate. I have played BCR but found it to be too complex and take too long. It was very intense, however. There was an automated system, but I wanted to change some rules, so was stuck with doing things manually. I made ROQC to have acces to a playable, simple campaign that would give me some of the feeling I had back when I played campaigns using the original Steel Panthers. I had a lot of fun with that campaign system. So, to me ROQC is obviously the "best" one, as I value addiction, simplicity, variety, flexbility and the ability to play vs. the AI. And JAT is right, the next verison will have an automated spreadsheet, making it very easy to get ready for the next battle. It's actually very close to going public. I expect to go from 0.97 (which should be out in a couple of days) to 1.0. I have had lots of good testing from - among others - JAT, allowing me to balance and - in some cases - simplify the system.

Version 0.96 is out. I have had lots of good testing and it's getting close to 1.00 now. That doesn't mean that I couldn't use more testing, however Changelog from v0.95: · Military ranks used instead of CM experience levels to simulate the player difficulty level. If you are transferring from the system used in the previous release, equate Conscript with Private, and so on up to Elite/Colonel. · Handicap tables and promotion rules adjusted to provide a more even flow through the difficulty levels. · Rules for Exploit and Retreat battles tightened to make them more challenging, including the handicap modifiers. · Motorized infantry introduced as a possible exploitation force. · Favor has been completely redone. It is now much simpler, more intuitive and better balanced. · Fitness of the enemy force added as a parameter. · The core force example has been changed to use a mixed core force. · Favor cost for die roll modifications decreased. · Casualty base revised to differentiate between towed and mounted guns. · Experience update formula changed to an average, as this is more straightforward and flexible.

I'm talking about the casualty points awarded in the AAR. The manual states that Captured count double, that's all. I'm not interested in the exit points, only casualties and captured. Is it a straight purchase cost, doubled for captured men and equipment? That would take weakness and experience into account automatically.

I have tightened the rules for Exploit and Retreat battles, to make them more difficult and hopefully also more challenging. I'l post the changes here, so that you can start using them. 4.3 Preparing the Battle in the Editor in the Battle Parameter screen c. Victory flags: i. If you have a retreat battle, set large flags to 0 and small flags to 1 for each 150 meter map height, rounded off (e.g. 4 flags for a 640 height map) ii. For all other battle types, turn victory flags off (set both values to 0). in the Map Editor b. Generate a random map using parameters 16, 19, 20 and 21. If you have an Exploit battle, you must have a road running from your map edge to the enemy map edge. It can enter and/or exit at a map side if the exit point is not more than 5 tiles from the corner. If you don?t have such a road on the map you can either edit one into the map (if it?s close, and don?t make the map easier for yourself) or generate another map. Use the first map that?s suitable. This is the road that your exploitation force will use. c. If you have an Exploit battle, enter Preview mode and set up the exploitation force on the entry road. Load infantry in their transports and hook guns up to their transports, so they?re ready to roll. You then need to make sure that there is no LOS from your exploitation force to the enemy half of the map. You will most likely need to edit the map to accomplish this, either by lowering the elevation of the area where they set up or by walling them in with forests. It doesn?t have to be pretty unless you?re fuzzy about things like this. After all, this fix wouldn?t have been necessary if the game had allowed you to import reinforcements with a map into a quick battle. The area you?re editing is off limits to the rest of your force during the battle. You cannot set these forces up there, nor move them there, and if they rout into this area you must move them out at the first opportunity. d. If you have a Retreat battle, enter Preview mode and distribute the victory flags evenly along the enemy side of the map. Set them roughly midway between the map edge and the edge of the visible setup zone ? it doesn?t have to be very precise. The purpose of these flags is spread out the enemy setup, so that you have less of a chance for a clear run to the other side. Be sure to set them up on the proper side of the map ? in a Retreat the Axis side is East and the Allied side is West, and the editor does not switch the setup zones around when you switch the friendly map edges around. e. Click on the ?Setup Zones? button and remove all setup zones. 4.5.2 Play Exploiting units must follow the exit road and use this road for exiting at the enemy map edge. They are allowed to move around an enemy minefield located on the road if you are unable to clear it in time, and to leave the road to defend them selves if attacked, but they must get back to the road as soon as possible. These guys have orders to move on as quickly as possibly, not to fight your battle. In a Retreat battle all your units must exit anywhere along the enemy map edge. The QB generator does not allow for exit zones either, so you?ll have to manually keep track of where the units are supposed to exit. I hope that helps. I'll look at the player experience levels later and even out the differences a bit. Ignore the reference to guns in the exploitation force for the moment

14 hours :eek: Take your time, and thanks for the warning. For the record, my exploit turned out to be very easy. I'm wondering if these battles are too easy. But then I did get lucky with the dice and this is June 41. I cleaned out the Russkies that were in the way and rolled the armor across the map, except that one of the HT's got stuck. My fault, really. Still, I netted the max 60 Favor without problems. Didn't get much experience for my tanks, as opposition was light. The next one is an attack in a town, so more of a challenge, but the Russkies are still very short on ammo. I guess I should take full advantage of my luck while it lasts Still june and same terrain.

v0.95 is out at the usual place. Here's the changelog: Northern and central region added. The tables for choosing operational orders have been modified somewhat, and now differentiate between different force types. Extended campaign variant introduced. Time of day added as a parameter. Core force upgrades changed to include rarity. Favor calculation modified for Soviet core forces to reflect the habitual Soviet disregard for own losses. A few other minor updates, including a revision of the fitness table. This time I included the suggested campoaigns in the example spreadsheet. As usual, no need to not continue an existing campaign.

Started a campaign myself with a platoon of StuG IIIB in June 41, Central region, and go an exploit The terrain is heavily wooded and hilly, so the exploitation force has to go up this one road. Unfortunately, I forgot to get some engineers, and the road is - ofc. - mined with AT mines. There is a detour, but it goes uncomfortably close to the enemy held flags. Oh well. Live an learn. v0.95 is due soon with the central and northern regions added. I expect this version to pretty much hold water, leaving the addition of the Finns and the Finnish region before 1.0. It's time for me to play this baby for a while

It's not because I want to be restrictive, it's because I would like to give some guidance on what's proper and what's not. And limitations like this add to the challenge (for some people). And you can ofc. buy anything you like within a particular battle. I'm thinking core force here.

I'mnot sure if I can give you a direct link to that spreadsheet at cmmods, but do a search there for "availability" and you should get it. I was thinking of simpler stuff, like you should not be allowed to add a KingTiger to your infantry company from a standard infantry division. Or restricting availability of vehicles for mountain divisions. Or an interesting question: How often did armour fight together with ordinary foot infantry - is it out of the question to add a tank to an infantry core force? The game does not differentiate like this, and it does not even change the rariry (e.g. it is conceivable that a Tiger was a lot more rare with a Mountain division type than with a Mechanized division type). I can understand that they might have decided to prioritize this down, as it can be a lot of work. This would come out in the rules as a set of guidelines for specific nationality /division type combinations. It may be too much work, as the possible number of combinations is quite large. And given the current player base, it might not be worth the effort. But it would make for more interesting campaigns.

Not sure if this is the right place to post wished for CMAK, or if it is too late. But why not I came upon three needs when making ROQC: 1. Allow import of reinforcements with a map into the QB generator. In CMBB, reinforcements are simply ignored. 2. Allow import of exit zones with a map into the QB generator. In CMBB, exit zones are simply ignored. 3. Allow import of a map from any file that has one into the map editor in the scenario editor. I don't need to import units, and in fact it would be safer not to. I can't do it the other way around (open the map/scenario, delete any units, add new units) as it is the unit file that is persistent in my campaign. Besides, it seems like a generally useful feature.

The sample unit data charts from the strategy guide do not contain availability information. But I found a unit availability chart by mike8g at cmmods.com and Chris's unit spreadsheet with availability info here. There are some TO&E sites around, but at least one requires payment. And I dont really need the complete TO&E - my main interest is availability of equipment for different division types, as the game doesn't do that for you (you can e.g. buy any armor with unchanged rarity value for any division type). So, I was hoping that someone couldprovide me with a good source of info (being lazy, I suppose )

Have you taken a look at my campaign? It's much simpler than BCR, but might not satisfy your thirst for detail.

I have made one for Soviet SPG/AG tanks. "Cat Killer" is a good concept, limited to Tank Destroyers. As far as I can determine, the SU-85 appears in September 1943 for the first time. Does anyone know where I can find a list of all available units together with their availability dates in CMBB? Some good TO&E sites for this period would be nice too.

Good to know I probably will. This campaign concept shouldn't be difficult to port to CMAK.

Red Star, White Star is :cool: - upgrades and core force limited to other US lend-lease vehicles. Perhaps use a platoon with US halftracks. What would be a good name for a similar campaign using British vehicles? Through the ranks is an interesting twist. I'll give it some thought. I have a campaign starting with 4 SU-76, and another (German) starting with 4 Panzerjäger I, but there's room for more. I have introduced a custom campaign concept, where you follow a unit through a - more or les - historical series of battles. Basically, you use the experience and favor rules and as much of the rest as is appropriate, and customize as much as you like of the battle settings. My first attempt is named Panzergruppe Guderian and runs from June to December 1941. Stalingrad (from August 42 to February 43) is another obvious one. Are there any good candidates for Soviet custom campaigns?

I have made a change that you should start using right away: When upgrading a unit or adding a unit to your core force you must add the rarity cost to the cost of the new unit. So, a unit that cost e.g. 48 points with a rarity of 10% will have a cost when upgrading of 58 points. Rarity still does not apply to the cost of your core force itself. So, the example unit above will have a cost of 48 once it's part of your core force. This is because I don't want your the value of your outdated core force unit to inflate as they become more and more rare.