Kitty

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by crumply: y'all are crazy to suggest that Dr. Brian is laughable, etc. for raising an important issue. The truth is, we all are deriving pleasure from a simulation of the most horrible event in modern history. You can't dismiss the fact by saying, "I am only interested in the military history."<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Zzzzzzz

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Michael emrys: This seems to be a regular feature of nearly every internet forum I've come across. I think it gives you a pretty good thumbnail sketch of what the human race is like. A few geniuses, a lot reasonably decent folks, and a generous helping of assholes. B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Wow. Assholes? This is by far one of the tamest boards I've seen for a game so far. =/ I mean on most other boards I've seen all this stuff would have long ago degenerated into cursing and name-calling galore. I'm pleasantly surprised that I haven't seen that happen here yet. Maybe i've missed something? Kitty Ps - Isn't this topic also "off-topic?"

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rollstoy: Hey, I found a picture of a Firefly IIc! It must be an aerial recon one, though! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> ROFL =)

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DrD: All interesting points. I was not aware that Sajer's book was fictionalized. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> That's kind of a hotly debated point. I tend to believe that it was fiction, myself.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dr. Brian: Sure do Kitty, one of my unlces was butchered by soldiers under Peiper's direct command in 1944, but I guess, I never got to know him. My other uncles, who did survive the war, told me all the time how ineffective the Germans were, and how bad @ss they (my uncles) were. (2 in the US Army, 2 in the USN, 1 in the USAAF, both thearters of operation). But, that's the quality of German soldiers and leadership in 1944. Was it different earlier? Maybe yes, maybe no. So, the units they were facing across the race in France and Italy, were sub-par. It's a known fact, albeit some refuse to accept it, that the Germans by 1944 had depleted their best soldiers, and the US, who did not deplete their talent pool, were just better. That's why they got ashore, pushed them back, ran across France, and crossed the Rhine. Thoughts? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> It's always hard, if not impossible, to try to respond to someone when their post includes members of their family. I have something I'd like to say but will refrain from doing so because I wouldn't want you to misinterpret my response as a personal attack or anything so I'll stay away from that one. I don't want to get anyone mad at me and think i'm a bitch. =( So I'll just paraphrase this as far as I can recall, don't have the book in front of me right now, from Bill Maudlin's "Up Front." "You may hear a GI call a German "A lousy son of a bitch but you'll never hear him say he's no good."

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Elijah Meeks: I assume, Kitty, that you posted this without refreshing and therefor missed the post it was in response to. In case this is not true, for further explanation, my point was that you cannot pretend like political parties in totalitarian states are a matter of personal choice or that the armed forces were not an extension of them, as that is what a totalitarian state is all about. This is in direct contrast with a republic or democracy. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> No I saw the preceeding post but didn't know what point you were trying to make. I do now, thanks. I have to disagree somewhat though. Obviously, a democratic system involves far more of a choice for it's people than does a totalitarian one but even a democracy's party is the choice of the majority, but not everyone. For instance, I didn't vote for Clinton. As for the second remark, one of the most oft-quoted statements I've ever heard is something like, "War is just an extension of politics by other means." To say that the US Army was/is not an extension of it's politics is wrong. =/

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Elijah Meeks: Guys, Soviet Russia and Nazi Germany were totalitarian states. One party ruled them, the Nazis in one case, the Communists in another. Let's not pretend like these just happened to be the governments in power at the time. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Ok. Your point being?

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> While POWs were shot all the time, it was still a minor occurence on the Western front. The vast majority of men surrendering where accepted. A good example is Arnhem, where the paras really did not have the facilities to take German POWs, but still did on a large scale, rather than gun them down.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Define "minor," please. The Arnhem battle also being of course an instance of the much-maligned-in-other-currnet-threads-Waffen-SS exhibiting several and rather large displays of "chivalry."

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dr. Brian: The nations they "beat" were nothing (no disrespect to the fighting men of these nations). Poland, Denmark, Belgium, Holland, Yugoslavia..... oooo. real scary, tough armies. (A bit sarcastic). <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Sheesh. The Poles weren't tough? You try charging armored vehicles and machine guns on horseback and tell me that doesn't take any courage.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by aka PanzerLeader: Tactically the Germans won many battles. Barbarossa(June-Oct41) can be considered a success operationally and tactically. Fall Blau as well. Kursk tactically is a draw... B]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> You forgot Kharkov.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dr. Brian: This is an excellent point. The German Armed Forces of WWII did have good units, but in general, they were not effective. The nations they "beat" were nothing (no disrespect to the fighting men of these nations). Poland, Denmark, Belgium, Holland, Yugoslavia..... oooo. real scary, tough armies. (A bit sarcastic). In effect, Germany beat up a bunch of really disorganized, and ineffective countries. They ran into trouble when they went into the USSR. You have to keep that in persepctive when you talk about "the skilled German Army." They lost to anyone that was decent. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Know any WWII veterans? If you do go talk to them and let them tell you how "ineffective" the Germans were.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hakko Ichiu: Sorry, but this generalization is so broad as to fall into the big stinky barrel labeled "pure bilge water". Were the Germans tougher than the Zulus who could run 50 miles and fight a battle at the end of it? Were they more professional than the Roman Legions that conquered most of the known world? Were they better soldiers than the IDF, which has won four full-scale wars against enemies with a combined population 40 times greater? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I'd say you're right about the generalization here; maybe a little harsh, but right. Still, it's hard to not make at least some generalizations without turning a post into a twenty page essay. Could every single Zulu run 50 miles and fight? Is every single member of the IDF a great soldier? I doubt it. As for the rest of this topic, I prefer to play the German side, although I also play all the other sides too, for reasons that a lot of people have mentioned already. They're underdogs. The same reason I've always been a fan of the Boston Red Sox and Miami Dolphins in sports; they come close but never win it all. As for liking to play the SS (when I SS I'm referring to the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 5th, 9th, 10th, and 12th SS Panzer Divisions) in the game, it's because they are arguably some of the best units ever produced. They fought under adverse conditions ususally outnumbered and if they didn't prevail always gave a good showing of themselves. They were the elite units of the German army. That's also why I prefer to play the South in Civil War games, like to play American and British Airborne in CM, and I would play the US Marines and IDF if there was a Pacific and Israeli version of CM. The last, albeit the the least influencing reason (I'm not even consciously aware that it IS an influence but might be) why I prefer the Germans in the game is that my grandmother's last name is von Bielefeldt and all the male von Bielefeldts were officers in the Prussian army up to and including WWI until my grandparents moved to the US around 1925. But be that as it may, it IS a game, even if it's based on historical events, and so none of it really matters. If a real war was to somehow break out between the United States and Germany tomorrow I wouldn't be Jane Fonda and go pose on a missle for the Germans. See what I mean?

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Louie the Toad: I want my rifle squads to move forward and my squad support units (mortar and piat) to hold back and wait or to move somewhere else. Not sure how to do this so it works out right, except by moving individual units.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> That's how to do it. =)

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dr. Brian: How about more historically accurate scenarios? The overwhelming majority of scenarios are top notch Germans and SS. That was simply not the case. Any true student of WWII knows the dredge of the German nation were in uniform fighting for Germany. More historical accurate scenarios depicting more 2nd Line Troops... enough with all these SS. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Yes, but if it's historical scenarios you're talking about then I would think one possible reason for many of them including SS units is that they tended to be used in critical spots. Detailed information on the larger or more critical battles is more readily available and therefore you'll see SS units in a lot of Normandy, bocage, and Ardennes scenarios. (shrug) As far as lowering the German troop quality to "2nd line" status, you'd also have to reduce the ratings of the Americans as well during 1945 because of the fact that the training they were receiving before being sent into combat was far from being even close to adequate.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Sheesh. I mean if I was really a pirate why would I even bother asking the question I did? Kind of like returning to the scene of the crime, don't you think?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Kitty I believe you are not a pirate. But boy I can tell you this - do not overestimate the intellectual prowess of your average pirate! They have tried some pretty ridiculous stunts here and elsewhere. "Hey.... uh... I got this game called Battlefront Combat... you guys, like, got oNlInE doX 4 it?! CoOl! LaTRz DooDZ!" Why Hello Mr. Pirate, please come in. The person who sold you a used CM and didn't include the manual really ought to send you the manual or refund your money though. It's not a complete game without the manual. Charles [This message has been edited by Big Time Software (edited 08-25-2000).]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by TankDawg: Who is Bobby Lee?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I think he was a friend of Jeff Davis.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dr. Brian: Jeff, yeah. I feel the same way. That's why I can't figure out why. WE WON the freaking war. *snip* In fact, the whole German nation was geared toward racist supremecy, and those that fought for it, beleived it. They had many opportunities to speak out, but never did. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> There are a lot of reasons why the Allies won the war. I was thinking of mentioning a few but that would take too long and they're easily found elsewhere. As for the entire German nation being "geared toward racist supremecy," that's simply not true and many of those who served in the German military did not do so because they believed in the policy you cited. One that comes to mind immediately is Adolf Galland. Many served out Germany's traditional feelings of duty to their country, to seek adventure, etc. etc. Finally, a lot of people spoke out against Nazi policy. A lot of people ended up dead as a result too. I'm not trying to worship anyone here, just stating some facts.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Martyr: This issue has been discussed. Do a search under "pirate."<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I didn't "pirate" CM, I bought it from an individual who purchased it from Big Time. He didn't like it, deleted it from his computer and sold me the CD. Now unless copyright laws have changed drastically in the last couple weeks, there is absolutely nothing illegal about any of this. Every licensing agreement for any software I've ever seen says something similar to, "You may permanently transfer all your rights to this EULA as part of a sale provided you retain no copies, transfer all the software, etc. etc." If I'm wrong I'll delete and burn the game. I'm not a "pirate" and don't care for the accusation. Debbi Parker "Kitty"

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Kingfish: Send $45 to BTS and they will send you the manual, it's that simple.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Cool. Thank you. =)

What can be done for someone who bought CM used from somebody only they didn't happen to send the manual along with the game? Anything? Kinda thinking this is a lost cause but figured it was worth asking. =/ Thanks, Kitty

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Dirtweasle: Naughty Kitty! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> What'd I do? Kitty

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Michael emrys: I've noticed this behavior among airborne troops. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Similar thing happened to me a couple days ago but my guys weren't airborne, they were SS. All of a sudden the platoon HQ and one of two squads it was commanding decided to attack all on their own. It worked so I didn't mind too much. Maybe it's a bug? Kitty