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Banshee

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Posts posted by Banshee

    Request: "NScoot" command..

    in Combat Mission Archive #3 (2001)

    Posted

    Originally posted by Germanboy:

    And if you have a bunch of elite commandoes, they will carry out that command faster than a bunch of conscripts because they don't waste time and know what to do. That is command delay. In the game that is abstracted so that units of different level have different command delays. Tiger is right, with these sorts of commands you have to be careful not to ignore command delay, since that would negate the advantage of having higher quality troops.

    So the concern you have is that if someone was waiting for 2 turns in ambush on a certain point, shoots (which is a factor of experience, the amount of time it takes to acquire, lay on gun, and fire, which in no way would be affected by this), and immediately takes off, then it somehow negating the effects of having a higher quality troop.

    I see your point, I dont agree with it, but I see your point.

    But a solution would still exist, command delay could be in effect after the ambush is triggered (i dont agree with that except in the case where the ambush was triggered before the command delay of the order was expired). But right now CM models command delay from the point a new order is given on (unless it hasnt completed the previous order , then the delay goes into effect from the point where the last order was completed).

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    Veni, vidi, panzerschrecki

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    Request: "NScoot" command..

    in Combat Mission Archive #3 (2001)

    Posted

    Originally posted by Tiger:

    I'd say that it is possibly an AI tweak but not a command modification or new needed command. It seems this is an attempt to get around the command delays that are part of the system. What's really being asked for here is a scripted AI method of doing detailed unit manuevers all at once with no command delay in between.

    If you're going to implement scripted-type AI commmands for ambushes you should go ahead and do them for all the various commands.

    -Tiger

    It isnt trying to get around command delay, If the ambush is triggered before the command delay is done then the unit waits before moving (until command delay is finished).

    As for the "scripted" issue, it is no more scripting than, Move here, then sneak here, then ambush this spot (all in one command,which is currently possible). All I am asking for is basically the reverse (which is more useful) Ambush here, then move there,etc.

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    Veni, vidi, panzerschrecki

    [This message has been edited by Banshee (edited 01-25-2001).]

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    Request: "NScoot" command..

    in Combat Mission Archive #3 (2001)

    Posted

    Originally posted by Sgt. Beavis:

    I understand the desire behind a new command like this. However...

    I think that a new command isn't needed, and perhaps the TacAI just needs to be tweaked a little. For example, let's say I have 2 M8s in an ambush position. This will be the "control," so to say. Now, there will be two possibilites in this scenario...

    1) They encounter a Tiger

    2) They encounter a group of German HTs, Spw 351, or whatever.

    In the case of 1, the TacAI should instruct the M8s to fire a round, and then drive as fast as they can in the opposite direction. This still serves one of the purposes of an ambush, as it will slow down the advance of the enemy.

    In the case of 2, the TacAI should instruct the M8s to continue firing after the first round, as there is not yet an immediate threat to their existence.

    I believe that in real life most commanders of the M8s would withdraw anyway after a few rounds in situation 2, despite the apparent lack of a threat. One would not press his luck, and would probably withdraw to safety. Of course, experience and morale could affect this decision to a great extent.

    I believe the AI does something similar to this. I have had some situations though where my vehicle(s) in question took more time than I think would be reasonable to withdraw. Sometimes the AI does a good job, sometimes not, but then again in real life some people did a good job, and others did not smile.gif

    Just something to add to SirOscars excellent reply to your post. It is also a failing that the AI would only backup to a "random" place. Clearly we as commanders are setting up indications where we want our troops to go (thus the move, run, sneak commands). I just think that ability to direct where a unit should go should be refined a little. I was thinking a bit more on this last night and I think the AMBUSH command could easily accomadate this change. If you have an ambush command , and add movemement orders, the movement orders wont go into effect until after the ambush has been triggered. The one ability that it would take away from (as opposed to a seperate command) is the ability to move out with an ambush point set. But (IMHO) I think it is more useful with the ability to reposition after an ambush (rather than reposition before).

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    Veni, vidi, panzerschrecki

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    Request: "NScoot" command..

    in Combat Mission Archive #3 (2001)

    Posted

    Originally posted by SirOscar:

    Now maybe as some have said "let them work on CM2 and stop asking for new stuff for CM"

    FINE!!! When they open a CM2 board we all can go there and post our ideas, but until then I see nothing wrong with posting valid suggestions to make a very fine game, no let me say a GREAT game, better. 'Steps off his soapbox'

    Thanks for weighing in, I agree, I hope BTS reads this and weighs just to see what their reaction is.. since after all it is their baby and they have the control over requests like this, the more debate on the such gives them user feedback as to wether or not it is a desireable item. So far we have a 50%-50% split over the "micromanagement" vs "I would like to have this feature".

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    Veni, vidi, panzerschrecki

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    BTS: Please fix the point value of the Greyhound!!!

    in Combat Mission Archive #3 (2001)

    Posted

    Originally posted by Slapdragon:

    Enough is enough. I am tired of this little hellion killing my units by the score, mocking all attempts by Lynx or Tiger to knock it out, and in general over balancing the game. As proof, I offer these screen shots from a recent game.

    This tank is far too powerful and needs to be stopped before it ruins more contests. I am sick of it, and of the gamey way in which allied players use it to run around the backside of perfectly nice frontal attacks by my poor, nearly defensely King Tigers, Panthers, and Nashorns. In addition, its romps through my battalions, spreading destruction, death, and fear, and made me scared to play Germans any more.

    BTS -- please fix this ASAP.

    Yes I agree, they should be even cheaper wink.gif

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    Veni, vidi, panzerschrecki

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    Request: "NScoot" command..

    in Combat Mission Archive #3 (2001)

    Posted

    Originally posted by Peter White:

    My personal opinion is that NScoot would be micromanagement.

    I think a more appropriate order would a 'Defensive' order. "Get out of there if you are outgunned!" The net effect would be to modestly increase the probability the tacai retreats a unit when in danger.

    Thanks for the reply!

    I am just curious how this command would be anymore micromanagement vs a MOVE,RUN, AMBUSH, HIDE, or TARGET?

    Also wondering if BTS is reading this?

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    Veni, vidi, panzerschrecki

    [This message has been edited by Banshee (edited 01-24-2001).]

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    Request: "NScoot" command..

    in Combat Mission Archive #3 (2001)

    Posted

    Originally posted by Chupacabra:

    This is already implemented as a tacAI decision.

    In a PBEM game I'm playing against Berlichtingen at the moment, I ambushed (more or less) a Churchill VII with a Tiger. Tiger took a shot, then started to reverse out of LOS.

    Seems to me there's no reason to implement an order to do something which is already happening.

    Sure wish I could get my Marder's doing that smile.gif

    Is there a way to reproduce this behavior so that I can replicate it on a reliable basis. Because I have seen units back up on their own (usually Shermans getting out of the way of a Panther!) but it is hardly something I can count on. If there is a kludge or workaround that would be great.

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    Veni, vidi, panzerschrecki

    0

    ARGGHHHH, I've had enough! No more "command request" threads!

    in Combat Mission Archive #3 (2001)

    Posted

    Originally posted by Pak40:

    no, I think it'd be better if BTS made a command to customize your own commands. This way anybody can make any command they want. BTS would spend half of their resources developing it, ensuring that CM2 wont be released until 2005 rolleyes.gif

    [This message has been edited by Pak40 (edited 01-24-2001).]

    I know this is sarcasm, but in reality if the AI was based on scripting rather then compiled code then this would be an easy feature to implement. The extra time taken in making an interpretive engine in the game would be saved by the ease of adding new features later on through scripts rather than coding (usually you can teach a script kiddie to do that stuff while the programmers go a develop more tools).

    just a thought smile.gif (p.s. BTS already said this wouldnt happen for CM, they just have too limited of programming resources (1 guy))

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    Veni, vidi, panzerschrecki

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    Request: "NScoot" command..

    in Combat Mission Archive #3 (2001)

    Posted

    Originally posted by Tiger:

    I dunno. What happens when your unit shoots and scoots into the sights of something else that kills it? Then you'll want "smart" scoot ai that won't let this happen. Then you'll get into "well it was a good shoot and scoot move in this instance but not in that instance". What happens when your unit shoots and scoots away, but you'd rather have had them stay and keep firing. Then you'll be screaming "no don't back away! Stay and kill them!".

    This is called a "Straw Man" in the rhetorical world. You can distort my argument all you want, but I asked for none of the above. All I asked was for a simple command that shoots when targets come into sight and then follows a movement path after it has done so. By following your logic above if CM only had a walk command, and I asked for a run command, you would dismiss it because "then I would just want a smarter run command" if I used it wrong...

    If it can't be done in CM1 then that is something (and not something you can reply to but BTS can). But the above argument is meaningless.

    Originally posted by Tiger:

    Support your ambushes properly and this shouldn't be too much of a problem.

    -Tiger

    I'm sure you know this, but not all ambushes are to hold ground. Some you use just to attrit the enemy on the way to him engaging your MLR. I would love to use vehicles like the Marder III and the M8 Greyhound to do so, but they are so vulnerable to counter fire that I simply do not purchase those type of units even if the situation calls for them.

    The above command (though badly named! hehe) would add another level to the game and I think would be a powerful addition to defensive battles (allowing some of the weaker units to be more effectivley deployed). Programmatically (btw I am a programmer) I was trying to balance the logic from existing commands in the game, this command is almost a combination of Ambush and Hunt (if that makes any sense), with the Hunt logic triggering the movement path after firing.

    Again this isnt a criticism of CM, merely a feature request.

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    Veni, vidi, panzerschrecki

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    Request: "NScoot" command..

    in Combat Mission Archive #3 (2001)

    Posted

    Originally posted by Tiger:

    An attempt at too much micro-management of your units in my humble opinion. One of the great things about Combat Mission is that you do not have too much control over every situation and you get a number of variable "behaivours" out of the tacai.

    -Tiger

    I completely disagree. It is no different than giving firing orders to a specific unit ("I want this tank to target this particular machine gun instead of the other target it had chosen", THAT is micro management, but is allowed in CM). It may be that the "pause" command would be too much micromanagement. This command is simply addressing the deficiency in CM which makes vehicles and men overly vulnerable to return fire. I think vehicles like the Marder III would be a lot more useful with ability to back away from counter fire. But they never do. It is a simple command. Shoot once, and go. It is also a standard delaying tactic. And makes it easier to keep contact with the front of enemy formations without exposing your forces to counterfire.

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    Veni, vidi, panzerschrecki

    [This message has been edited by Banshee (edited 01-24-2001).]

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    Request: "NScoot" command..

    in Combat Mission Archive #3 (2001)

    Posted

    Originally posted by Wolfpack:

    Course, there are times you want that unit to fire more than once, so there would have to be some way for the unit to bug out when it had to, and not just after it fired it's first shot. That would probably be the tricky part.

    If done right the pause command would allow them to fire more than one shot. It would work like this:

    Set Ambush/nscoot command

    hit pause 1 time (15 second delay)

    set simple movement command (reverse)

    When the ambush spot is triggered and after the unit has fired one shot the pause would have them sit in place (hopefully firing another shot) before reversing out of sight. If you want more shooting, then add more pauses.

    Thanks for the feedback, any more?

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    Veni, vidi, panzerschrecki

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    Request: "NScoot" command..

    in Combat Mission Archive #3 (2001)

    Posted

    When using vehicles and setting up ambushes I was noticing a distinct weakness for certain thin skinned vehicles. The issue is they would get off a first shot in an ambush but I would have to wait till the turn end (and then the command delay for the next turn) in order to get them to unass and find a new firing spot. With thin skinned vehicles this is often fatal (especially facing high ROF vehicles).

    So I propose the following a new type of ambush command ("NScoot") which holds a unit in place until the ambush is triggered (meaning the main gun fires a round) and then the unit will follow any previously given movement commands (allowing for "Shoot n' scoot" tactics). Or you could change the current ambush command to work like that (where movement wont happen until the ambush is triggered and units fire). And it would be made even better if the PAUSE command allowed for X number of seconds of fire before the people leave.

    I hope I explained this idea well, and hope for some constructive feedback. Since I really would like to use thin skinned vehicles in a more effective manner. If I need to explain it better please ask questions.

    Thanks,

    Chris

    p.s. I think it would make a good command for infantry units as well.

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    Veni, vidi, panzerschrecki

    [This message has been edited by Banshee (edited 01-24-2001).]

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    Should Guns Be Used For Meetings and Attacks?

    in Combat Mission Archive #3 (2001)

    Posted

    If I play the germans i'll always buy a 20mm. If the lay of the land is such that I dont have a good field of fire I will use tow it to a spot which can fire perpendicular to the advancing axis (but well forward) but is still covered from the front. Forests and the sides of hills work well. The points are low enough for a 20mm (and 75mm) where if you dont have a good LOS your not out very much , but if you do have LOS you get quite a payback.

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    Veni, vidi, panzerschrecki

    0

    Exploding bluildings are B.S

    in Combat Mission Archive #3 (2001)

    Posted

    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jeff Heidman:

    You never defend a village or town from inside the town itself. You are just giving the bad guys a reference point to where you are.

    <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    I believe the german doctorine was that you defend a village in the middle not at it's edges (so they wouldnt be exposed to direct fire), the american doctorine was to not defend inside the villages at all but in the surrounding terrain.

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    Veni, vidi, panzerschrecki

    0

    %$#& Cowards!!

    in Combat Mission Archive #3 (2001)

    Posted

    <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Stuka:

    By the way Banshee, that was a very informative and helpful post.

    You see Heathy old bean, that doesn't sound like a F*****g A*****e reply to me. tongue.gif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

    LOL my first post was trying to be helpful, the second post wasn't nearly so much smile.gif .. I just think this is a very friendly board and people coming on it and DEMANDING and cussing really don't have a place here. They should go to Usenet.

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    Veni, vidi, panzerschrecki

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