killmore

Is infantry survivability in open field not realistic in CC4? I don't think 10 guys can last long in open field against tank with MG. Different story in the forest. Here MG can only hit some guys - assuming they are not running around but crawling. Also I believe that if tank round hits the wall of the room where 10 guys are sitting then quite a few of them should die! The real problem maybe be the price of tanks. Maybe tanks should be much more expensive then infantry. That will force people to buy more infantry. A tank in the open field can kill a lot of infantry... Is real WWII infantry easy to kill with tanks? I think it is. Unless it is hidden and manages to throw granades or fire zook at the tank. Once tank notices it it can kill infantry easily! (Unless it get KO) In CM I was wondering why German ZombieJeagers march into the fire of 2 mashine guns without much problem.

In your opinion guys is average T-34 (1944 model) better then average Sherman 1944 model?

Was that a demo game or a beta?

Really ? I love it already. What about forest fires? Do these spread?

I guess that means we cannot set things on fire

This would be a cool feature if I could smoke the enemy out of the house... (It works in MYTH 2... and XCOM...) By the way there are MYTH modes with tanks in them. see: http://myther.com/img/articles/santa/screens/hillapproach.jpg

PanzerLeader is crossing to the dark side...

What I hate most is people whining about other people whining (and so on until infinity)

I can complain about couple of things in Cm but AI is not one of them. I would same it is quite good! The only reason AI looses is because it does not read brefings and it does not learn about the battle. (neural net needed?) I like this fact because it means that I can be making mistakes and win the game anyway. I should be able to win the battle on the first try without any replays. (As long as I am competent player) In CC I can. I expect the same from CM.

2 billion scenarios would that be (2^31)?

Language: Java. I have been a teacher at university and I doubt that any one who is just starting programming can be of any help. I also takes 100 times more time then beginer thinks...

I am interested in people to help me right now. Not that much in playing itself. (Thought I would not mind a game or 2 on the board that is new to both players) I bet I am not very good at most of games (except Xwing variety). I like being able to loose sometimes and still have a chance later. I need help in doing program but I bet no one will be willing to help!

Here is the honest answer: Yes, I can do automated system for playing. I have done somewhat similar stuff before for Xwing Alliance. That took 6 months and was interesting but never got finished. I had over 100 people playing it. It was single player (vs AI) - not multiplayer! My main problems with Xwing Alliance were: 1) I was unable to accurately figure out the battle losses. I was reading the bitmap displayed on the screen after mission, but the bitmap was not showing number of ships killed just "points for kills" - so there were many possible outcomes. 2) No one was helping me in any way. 3) AI was able to build different structures and protect them as well as attack when it had a chance of winning! 4) It took 6 months! 5) Programming in windows is harder then in JAVA - I would write everything in JAVA this time. 6) I had to reverse engineer a lot of files to get right ships in missions. That took a lot of time. (I had no help whatsoever) Now for CM: 1) + No AI (just points) 2) - Need Java server 3) Need a lot of help! I am not going to do this myself. In fact I would rather do a small part of it - not the whole thing. I got life to use up... 4) I am not going to do any Web related stuff just Java. 5) It would take a lot of time. 6) There were no maps to do. I am only going to consider such project if I get some real help. I would do it also the way I described not in the way that is realistic. The reason? It is much simpler to do. I have been in many software projects so I have some experience with such things. (I worked on OSes and on Satelites before) I am simply trying to be realistic about what can be acomplished.

1) Sound like there might be a problem there because you will need everyone to play game by certain time. (Like two weeks you mentioned). Maybe separate game for those that want to see results fast. 2) I don't know if I would force a super-structure on that. I would just let people play for their content (yes - it is not realistic) 3) While the structure you propose could be considered as realistic by some - it might not be enough fun for some people. 4) Because of 3) and if you have a game like that why not let some people play a "less" realistic game if they want to! Say 10x10 sectors without any commanders telling them what to do. Let other people have fun too. 5) While you are proposing strict system of rules it is not automated. So you will need a lot of "staff". 6) I wanted an automated system - not realistic but you can see results quickly and turns are fast. No staff needed. Just a server. No control needed. As long as people will not be able to cheat it will result in chaotic battles which could be a lot of fun. (but not 100% realistic) 7) there would be equal amount of resource points per side (or it could depend on number of squares possed by a side) so losses would matter. So by the end of the game loosing side will have very few resources... Like in real war. 8) finally we could have players playing on different levels (fronts). There would be front for good, bad and ugly players I am definitly glad that I started this thread. I see a lot of thought proccess.

As stated before. There will be no hour of meeting when everyone has to play. Just pick a sector that has not been played this turn and defend it or attack from it. You will get very different expriences in different sectors...

Well, I am not sure If I could explain that right... I would not make it complex on the first try. Think simple!!! 1) Player can play any battle on his side during the "turn" - that means multiple CM battles if he wants to. 2) Player decides which adjacent enemy sector he wants to attack. If he wants to surround enemy sectors he can email and cooperate with other player. - Not my problem. 3) Replacement points will be given by AI based on sector importance and possibly player performance. Hey - here is a trick - we could simply offer more points for more strategic sectors. 4) Command structure. Well maybe none. Since we just have a large engagement not Germany-Allies war... Say this is a total mess without anyone in control. That happened too. 5) No sector/units belongs to any particular player. We do not want to spend days waiting for someone to comeback from holidays. 6) I guess units might belong to specific player and he could use them in any sector. - Yes it is not realistic. If you guys start to complain that is not realistic - I agree. I think it would be non realistic fun... It might give you a feel for larger battle where you are only a part and your actions matter somewhat. Hey you can come up with interesting ideas yourself.

The question is does anyone think that front line for 100 players would be cool? (Forget Normandy-Berlin) Or is that not realistic? And therefore no one should attempt to do that?

Couple of Polish names just look/feel wrong! I am pretty sure that Fedorcsak should be Fedorczak (z instead of s) I can make komments about rest of them but I cannot be 100% sure.

Those of you that speak russian: "Vstavai strana narodnaja vstavaj na smiertnyj boj ..." [This message has been edited by killmore (edited 11-11-99).]

I would not want to force 100 players to play at the sime time. I would just make sure play every front "sector" had a battle done on it during that day (hour, turn, whatever...) So person would be able to play couple of sectors if needed. And it could take multiple days... Only after all sectors were played the consequences of the moves would be put into effect and next "macro turn" would start

I hope this is not a duplicate post... Since small battles cannot make a difference in the war how about making an internet app that will create a front line where hundreds of people can play each other and this way change the course of history. Similar things were done for "Heavy Gear" and "TA boneyards". I have done similar thing myself for the Xwing Aliance. While I could do similar things for Front Line it would take huge amount of time (like months since I am full time software enginer and have other things to do) and I would need a lot of help (maps and code) and including Java servers etc... Over all it would be nice if BTS could do it not us players.

My Story: On the first turn after m-18 appeared they killed tiger on 18 second 2 Stug by 45 second and 2 half-trucks before the end of the turn. I also hit one or two half trucks with mortar. Game over.

See I don't want a decision tree like in PG. I would like to be able to decide myself what to attack next - even if I fail completly. AI should also be able to attack strategic points. Someone will make lots of money when they do that - even if it is gamey...

Remember that sometimes: 'Remember, too much reality is bad for gameplay' 'We are here for good gameplay first!'

Operational art of war has terrible UI. After playing the demo I hated it. Nothing is obvious. There is no clear indication why something happened... So what if batalion level battles would not change the outcome of the war (Actually if germans would win "Last defense" american landing might be in trouble!). I want to feel that I make a difference! Just assume that what ever was the performance of the batalion such was performance of the army in that sector! Anyone played SWOLT? There you could feel you are important! If you don't like it just play a campain in which germans will lose anyway, no matter what you will do. Campain is easy to do if you already have maps for "strategic points". Don't do that for CM. Think about CM 2! Make points on the map strategic. Like this point increases tank production, that point fuel production, etc. Or just prestige based like Panzer General. Maybe thats what I really want. Panzer general like game but with CM beautiful graphics and let me pick which battle to fight next. What to attack, what to defend and where to put reinforcements.