killmore

Wow ! I actually seen "PzKpfw 1" putting down someone else than Soviets. I guess he is getting old... I am against special bonuses for nationality. Period. Use conscripts against veterans.

German infantry vs Allied tanks was easy. (against AI) Buy lots of Puppchens. Buy couple of Inf guns. Buy lots of LMG (at 9 pts each it you can get 11 of them for the price of 1 Inf platoon) have many defense lines...

The argument about different sides fighting in different ways does not hold water and is somewhat pointless. There is no way I am going to use Soviet, Fin or German tactics. No amount of nationally based unit behaviour tinkering will force me to do that. (I also think it is racist in a way) So there is just no point in doing that. During Early war Soviet units should be mostly Conscript/Green quality and German units should be regular/Veteran. This will force Soviet player to use larger amount of units. Also training level modifier might be considered but training level should not have any effect on Veteran troops. (Soviet conscript training was probably worse - so Soviet conscripts should be somewhat worse but this should change in late war)

By the way Fins were not the only ones to fight Soviet Union and get peace accord. Poland fought Soviet Union in 1921 and 1922. (I know this is not WWII) and actually gained territory in the process. Parts of Belorrusia, Ukraine, Litvenia became Polish after the war. (Some Polish might say these territories belong to Poland anyway for the last 500 years or so)

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tero: > Fairly well ? Lets not forget we were Stalins only adversaries who fought him into accepting a negotiated peace that secured our pre-war status. [ 06-15-2001: Message edited by: tero ]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I guess term "Finlandization" better describes post-war status than pre-war status. (Finlandization - country that continuosly changes its politics and itself to pacify its strong neighbour - until it almost becomes a satelite state. I believe US strategic cold-war planners came up with this term)

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Grisha: Very true. In fact, there were two Polish Armies in the Soviet OB before war's end. The thing is they probably looked exactly like Red Army soldiers.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> There were some distinctions in the uniform and tank insignia. I think Polish tanks had White Eagle emblem on them. Not a red star. Same goes for helmets? I will be in Poland in 3 weeks - I will be able to tell you more...

From 1943 onward there was also 200,000+ Polish army fighting Axis on East front. So if Poland was included into CM it should be included into CM2. Polish troops took part in taking Berlin. Gee - Do Rumanian troops appear on Soviet side in 1944?

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PzKpfw 1: Yes Killmore you have, & I replied to those in the other threads so i wont repeat them here ....... [ 06-13-2001: Message edited by: PzKpfw 1 ]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Yeah - I get engaged into those discussions. I really want to know the truth. :confused: Can I handle the truth? But beyond that these numbers seem way inflated. By the way German accounts (from Clark and another book) say they killed over 18.5 million in occupied areas - more than you were mentioning.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by PzKpfw 1: Sokolov breaks down Soviet military IR losses by year as: 1941 - 5.5 million 1942 - 7.153 million 1943 - 6.965 million 1944 - 6.547 million 1945 - 2.534 million [ 06-13-2001: Message edited by: PzKpfw 1 ]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I have seen this before. Let me reiterate my counter points: 1) Sokolov numbers cannot be reconciled with Soviet population numbers. The Soviet losses are just too big. So Sokolov says that Soviet pre-war population count was wrong and real number was 20% higher that the official one. (Sounds like he is willing to do anything to prove his numbers) 2) I won't go through the math again but his numbers are mathematically imposible. They would mean that there were no combat-ready Soviet men by 1945. 3) I believe that he counts purely German losses vs Soviet. He does not take into account losses by all other Axis allies. Just like Stalingrad loss count the only number quoted is for german troops. 100,000 rumanias, 30000 italians and others are not counted. 4) By the September 1942 at least 40% of Soviet population was under german occupation. Therefore Soviets did not had huge amount of combat-able man in 1942 and 1943. 5) I find it hard to believe that 1941 was the year with least Soviet losses.

I would like to see fire spreading from one place in a wheatfield to finally engulf the whole field. (Local fog/smoke would be cool too) Of course field should stopburning after a while... It would make an interesting game on Soviet fileds. You start a fire around enemy positions and then fire starts to chase you. What? too early to request stuff for CM 3?

As ussual the kill/loss ratio is always quoted as German vs Soviet. This means that all other Axis troops are not counted (Italians, Fins, Rumanians, Hungarians etc...) There were enough of these troops to farther lower the Axis:Soviet kill ratio. Maybe even to 1:1.25

Please include: Maus IS-3 T-44 Or as many of above as possible. No one has to use them. Chances of encountering one are nil. Make sure that it is impossible to get one in QB with random units.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Big Time Software: As far as external campaign stuff is concerned, trust me... we are thinking about cans and string If we can do something realtively easy, we will. But opening up the file format is 100% never, ever going to happen Steve<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> In that case how about a simple command line utility which creates a saved game file from a simple text file and utility that extracts units from saved game file into a text file. You don't reveal saved game format and you give us great tools.

BTS: Why don't you just give everyone the saved game format and see what happens. Or do you think it will hurt the game in some way? I have done multiplayer campain for CC3 without any Atomic support and I don't need your support either. (Except saved game) MMCC3 works and people play it everyday. Converting it to CM2 should be easy - I just need to save units differently. http://home.san.rr.com/apiotrow/MMCC3/ [ 06-08-2001: Message edited by: killmore ]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Commissar: According to him, Asians/Mongols made up the bulk of front line combat troop in the Red Army. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> As I mentioned before: Nazi propaganda frequently called Soviet "the great barbarian mongolian horde". By 1944 the propaganda was talking about Germany role in protecting Europe from asian/mongolian invasion from the east. This is just another example. I bet everyone from did not looked Slaw was instantly qualified as mongolian. (For example Caucas region)

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Freak: Also one must consider that Russia was keen to use propaganda to sway its people that they had better (ie: tanks). Not that Germany and all countries do this to some degree (they do). In short the saying goes: Consider the source.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I think people on this board consistently underestimate true performance of anything Soviet/Russian. If I would believe you guys then in every battle soviets would have 10:1 advantage in numbers. Thats is just not possible considering Soviet population numbers... We probably need to add about 20% to penetration values. There probably was some truth to them being able to penetrate Tigers ot KT front armor. Frequently it is also mentioned that 152s were ripping the turrets off the Panter and Tiger. (See same links) [ 06-04-2001: Message edited by: killmore ]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by tero: >2) I think Alan Clark wrote that Finns (& >german units attached) had 2:1 advantage >over Soviets in the 1941 - but Finns failed >to achieve their objectives. What ? What were these objectives they failed to adcheive ? >3) My friends Grandfather fought in >WinterWar on Soviet side. He said they had >idiots for commanders. They were forced to >attack the bunkers through the half frozen >lake and most of them died. Drowned ? Exposure ? Shot ? If the lake was half frozen they could not have gone over it and survive without proper shelter. >At night 10 of them walked around the lake >and took out all of the defenders easily. >(they were acticting on their own - had no >such orders) Where and when did this take place ? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> 2) I would have to check what Clark said about it - I can't remember at this point. 3) Most of them were shot by machine guns fire and some drowned. Where/When this happened I could not tell you since this old soldier died couple of years ago. I did not asked him at the time and I doubt he would remember. (He fought in 4 wars WWI, Revolution, Winter War and WWII) All I can say that it was not a big lake or an important strategic objective. Thats why he remembered that so many men were just waisted by his commanders.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Skipper: killmore: >1) Before winter war Finns started to build >a huge defense line with long range guns - >Soviets thought it was a threat to them. Mannerheim line itself had field guns, not long range.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I admit this one could be soviet propaganda but thats what this old soldier choose to believe. Then again There were Long Range naval guns there as one of you mentioned.

I already have a multiplayer campain system for CloseCombat. See: http://home.san.rr.com/apiotrow/MMCC3/ (You can create your own campains in minutes) I wanted to make one for CM but I need at least a saved game file format. So far BTS is not responding... You can specify weather, maps, campain points, make your own campaign map, supply point, surrounded areas get less points and tons more I can EASILY add DAY/NIGHT ...

Are you also going to limit number of them? I hope I will not be able to purchase 40 of them in April 1944 - (since there were only 31 of them)

Couple of Comments: 1) Before winter war Finns started to build a huge defense line with long range guns - Soviets thought it was a threat to them. I think KV2 was built partially to breach such defenses. 2) I think Alan Clark wrote that Finns (& german units attached) had 2:1 advantage over Soviets in the 1941 - but Finns failed to achieve their objectives. Thus they were no super-soldiers. (And 3:2 in 1942) 3) My friends Grandfather fought in WinterWar on Soviet side. He said they had idiots for commanders. They were forced to attack the bunkers through the half frozen lake and most of them died. At night 10 of them walked around the lake and took out all of the defenders easily. (they were acticting on their own - had no such orders) 4) Finns were bravely defending in 1939 5) As a part of peace with Soviets Finns had to expell all German troops and stop sending supplies to Germany. There were battles between German troops and Finn troops in 1944

Pupchen for AT defense. Best AT gun under 300 meters. Kills everything. Reasonably accurate, high ROF. CHEAP. Useless against infantry - so what! It cost only 26 points!

If Rarity is turned off - PLEASE let us select Ferdinand even if it was not present on East Front in say January 1944.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Straif: There was no armed conflict, because Polish Government ordered polish troops to surrender to Soviets or escape to Romania. There was no possibility to win war on two fronts with two world biggest armies. If country "A" sends his armies to annect half of territory of country "B", it is an act of wor in my simplistic logic. Additionally, in winter 1939/1940 Soviets murdered 25,000 to 30,000 polish POW officers. Sound like frienly gesture for me. Check "Katyn" in any internet search. Straif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> What does Katyn have to do with whether there was armed conflict? Yes I know about Katyn. By the time Soviet troops entered Poland there was already no chance whatsoever to win the war. No armed conflict means no war, even if it is not a friendly act. By the way Poland did this to Czechoslowakia in 1938. They "annexed" part of it after germany got their slice thanks to Munich treaty.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Straif: There is no city called "Warshaw". If you are thinking about Warsaw or Warszawa, then I must inform you that Poland was attacked by Soviets in September 1939. Straif<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Poland was not attacked by Soviet Union in 1939. There was no armed conflict. Soviet union entered/occupied Polish teritory when the war was already lost to Germans in a quick territory grab. My grandfather lead 300 soldiers escaping to Rumania. He was spotted by soviet planes which did not attack them. He ordered troops to quickly move to another area. Shortly after german planes showed up and bombed the area where the troops were originally. So Soviet Union avoided conflict with Polish troops but was providing information to the Germans. One more thing. Soviet Union was attacked by Poland in 1921! Polish troops got As far in as Kiev. [ 04-18-2001: Message edited by: killmore ]