Oddball_E8
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Posts posted by Oddball_E8
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Will you be releasing these as a collection later or do we have to download them all individually?
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when it comes to shooting, game engine mutes ambient noise and did not seem too loud;)
I know, but I was playing a large battle and none of my troops were shooting, but every time I had a turn, I had to look at all my units to see if a firefight had broken out since it sounded like it every turn
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I remember seeing pictures of Vlassov’s ROA, Cossacks and Ostruppen carrying Soviet weapons. AFAIK Security and police troops from Russian origin also carried them, but I don’t know of German units ISSUED with those weapons.
They were issued, as evidenced by the fact that the germans had Wehrmacht designations of them; MP41® for the 9mm converted ones and MP717® for the non-converted ones.
It means there was an ammunition problem then.Yes, by 44 and 45 there certainly was. Which was true for the MP44 too, but they didn't stop using that because of ammunition problems did they?
What the purpose is of replacing 7.62mm barrels and 71-round drum magazines with 9mm barrels and the SAME 32-round magazines used with the MP38/MP40?You answer that further down. Towards the end of the war, many germans fired on anyone with a PPSh-41 even in german uniform, because of the many partisan attacks. And the drum magazine was never that popular since it tended to deform easily (it wasn't very sturdy, as opposed to the rest of the weapon). And there was also the ease of supply if they were converted to 9mm and used MP40 magazines.
I have read Germans liked very much the high capacity drums, so replacing them with the standard capacity magazines doesn’t make sense if you want to use the PPShs at the front. OTOH it may be very useful for arming security and auxiliary police units.They didn't like them all that much. The drums tended to deform if handled too roughly and the gun risked feed problems if you had more than 64 (I think) rounds in it. Point is that a standard capacity magazine offers many advantages over the drum magazine (The russians also produced a lower-capacity straight magazine because of this)
I haven’t seen lots of pics of Germans carrying 9mm PPSh at the front. In fact I have NEVER seen one.I never said there were "loads" of germans photographed with the 9mm PPSh. I'm talking about the regular one. The 9mm conversion was much more rare than the regular one.
We know soldiers took PPSh (and SVT-40), then pics were taken, but we don’t know anything about them. Were they using the PPSh in a regular basis? For how long? Did they have an alternate German weapon?It seems information on small arms used by the infantry is hard to get by. But compare it to captured T-34 tanks.
They suffered from exactly the same problems.
They were better than the german tanks in some points, worse in others.
They used ammo that wasn't being produced by the germans.
They were often fired upon by their own troops.
They were hard to maintain.
And they were still used throughout the war.
There is a pair of pics in this thread where the soldiers have got one or more additional German weapons. In one case he carries a MP40 while he’s firing a PPSh and in the other case he has an MG, a Kar98k and a PPSh.Of course some of the pictures are of soldiers who have aquired the weapon in the field.
They wouldn't just throw away their issued weapon now would they?
We don't know the story behind those pictures.
Maby they posed for the picture.
Maby they only used the PPSH until they ran out of ammo.
Maby they only hung on to their issued weapon until they could make sure they could get supplied with ammo for the PPSH (ie. get the weapon issued to them officially)
Maby they used both throughout the war.
Who knows? It's all speculation.
I have also read Germans learned to fire on anyone carrying a PPSh, not caring about the uniform he was wearing. PPSh = Bad guy doing bad things = I’m dead if I don’t kill him first.I answered that earlier with the T-34 reference.
The point here is that I want to hear some concrete reason as to why the PPSh 41 is never ever found in the hands of germans in the game despite seeing plenty of evidence and reading plenty of descriptions of them being used by germans on the front lines.
There seems to be no other reason than "well, we don't really think so"
Was there any research done by BFC on this?
Are they going to arbitrarily dismiss captured T-34's the same way (of course not, there are numbers backing that up, but the exact same reasonings that have been used to say that the PPSh 41 wouldn't be used on the front lines could be applied to the T-34, if those numbers hadn't been there)
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This is the closest I can come to actually quoting a book:
"The Encyclopedia of Weapons: From World War II to the Present Day", on the page of the PPSh-41 Russian Submachine Gun, it says near the end:
"German Service
Under such circumstances the PPSh-41 (known to its users as the 'Pah-Pah-Shah') received virtually no maintenance or even any cleaning. Under Eastern Front conditions it soon became apparent that the best way to keep the weapon going under summer dust or winter ice conditions was to keep it completely dry and free from any sort of oil, otherwise its action clogged or froze.
So many PPSh-41 submachine guns were produced that the type became a virtual standard weapon for the German army as well as the Red Army, the Germans even going to the extent of recalibring some of their captured hoard to their own 9-mm (0.354-in) Parabellum cartridge: this process required the replacement of the Soviet barrel and a housing able to accept the magazine of the MP 40. Unaltered weapons in German service received the official inventory designation Maschinepistole 717®, but the designation of recalibred weapons remains unknown. Partisan forces operating behind German lines found the PPSh-41 an ideal weapon for their purposes, and after the war the type was used by virtually every nation that came within the Soviet sphere of influence. It still turns up in the hands of 'freedom fighters' all over the world."
That certainly doesn't sound like it was a rare occurance or only used in the rear lines.
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I'm no grog so I don't have access to the numbers.
But the PPSh-41 was widely used by germans on the eastern front, and they were actually issued with them too.
In fact, such large numbers of the weapon were captured that they started converting them to 9mm to solve the ammunition problems.
You don't start converting weapons to your main ammunition (for the weapon type) unless you actually plan on issuing them to your troops.
As for where they were being issued, it seems they were being issued wherever smg's were needed. I've seen pictures of them from the frontlines, but not alot in the rear lines (where weapons like the MP28 and other older weapons seem to show up more often).
I would love it if someone actually dug through their books about this instead of trying to dismiss it offhand.
Everywhere I read, I read that the PPSh-41 was popular and widely used by the germans. It often states that large (or even huge) numbers of the weapon and ammo were captured during the early war and issued to their troops.
It also states that there was a program to convert them to 9mm as well.
It certainly doesn't sound like it was the exception.
I've definately seen more pictures of germans with the PPSh-41 than I have with the Stg-44...
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I use them in RT, i feel the gave me good russian WWII ambience.
I used the ones "DDAY" in optionnal folder too, when i'm in a scenario concerned by heavy AA and airplanes.
What i missed is a background set less generic for used with each game.
But don't mind me, i'm never an happy man :eek:
I tried the default backrounds that was in the newest version but it confused me a bit since some of the background sounds sounded alot like the in-game sounds so I was looking for battles that weren't there.
Had to switch back to the vanilla ones because of that.
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The problem is that the ammo production was at all time low in 1941 (38.7 million rounds a month), and quite low in 1942 (54.48 million rounds a month). On December, 1941, the existing stock of infantry ammunition was 6,000,000,000 rounds. At that time the Germans were living of eating the ammunition produced and stockpiled before the war and at wartime up to June, 1941. That ammunition had been obviously produced without taking into account a future adoption of a PPSh-41, so no extra 7,63mm ammo for the PPSh-41 had been produced.
OTOH it is clear that production during 1941 and 1942 was too low to think there was room for producing a cartridge which was used by just one weapon which was NEVER adopted as a standard weapon nor taken into accunt for it (the Italian Beretta M38 did OTOH). All resources were used for producing standard infantry rounds. When ammunition production increased in 1943 and 1944, the new kid (MKb41/MP43/MP44) was already in the block.
Yes, but they also captured pretty massive ammunition stocks during their first 2 years of the russian offensive (which after that became more of a defensive than offensive).
For example, they used quite alot of T-34's and ZiS-3 AT guns throughout the war and AFAIK didn't produce any ammo for them. The captured stockpiles of ammo were pretty massive during those first 2 years. So while they didn't produce massive (comparatively) amounts of ammo for the PPSh 41, they did have alot of captured ammo and supplemented that with their own produced ammo and the conversion of PPSh-41's to 9mm (which admittedly wasn't on a huge scale)
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Absolutely. Folder is map in Dutch too. I'm a big fan of Wallander and it always strikes me how many similarities there are between Swedish, German and Dutch. ;-)
Well it was tribes from the germany area that originally populated sweden from the south (not counting the northern lapps here) so it stands to reason that the swedish language would form with germanic roots.
Add to that the long periods of trade and diplomacy to the south and you have a good breeding ground for a mixed language. (which is also why we have plenty of english and french in there)
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This sounds so promising,...funny,... you remind me of someone who crazily modded all CMBN vehicles in 6 months,...fresh modding blood, why don't you give it a try to vehicles Kieme, sure you have some serious talent...
I concur!
The more the merrier
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Brilliant!
Exactly what I have been looking for!
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True. I have a hunch that captured PPSh-41s were far less common in France.
Oh definately. It wasn't exactly crawling with PPSh 41's but I've seen enough pictures of them on the west front to notice that they were there.
Most likely brought there by units formerly stationed on the east front.
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Even a small amount of weapons needs millions of rounds if those weapons are going to be used at the front. In April, 1943, when 2,000 MKb42 were delivered for trials at the front, it was calculated that 4 million kurz rounds were needed in May 1943 and 5 million rounds a month from June, 1943 onwards. At that date monthly production was just 2 million rounds which was regarded as insufficient.
Supporting some thousand PPSh-41s at the front would need MILLIONs of 7,63mm rounds which could be produced by reducing the 7.92x57mm quota at a time where increasing the standard 7.92x57 ammunition production was sorely needed rather than reducing or freezing it. Germans did it with the MP44 and the kurz ammo indeed, but there were solid reasons for it. The MP44 was a weapon which was superior to any other fielded by any army during the war. The PPSh was just another SMG.
In short, if you need 320 million rounds a month, but you produce 300, then reducing them to 280 a month in order to produce 20 million rounds for the PPSh-41 or whatever weapon you fancy without getting a clear combat advantage with the new weapon, seems a bit odd. OTOH if you start to equip fully platoons with MP44…that’s different. In that case I would consider to freeze further standard ammunition increase then applying any ammunition production increase to the new kurz ammo. That is what the Germans did.
The problem was always ammunition production. Germans could divert some resources to produce enough ammo for weapons not used at the front, but they could not fully support them at the front.
The main difference between the Kurz and the Mauser ammo here would be that they had been producing the mauser ammo since before the war even started and the increased production rate would have happened long before the kurz was even thought up.
Remember, the germans started using the MP41® right after the invasion of russia started.
Not to mention the captured ammo they would have gotten their hands on during the first 2 years of the invasion.
Sure, the use of the PPSh41 wouldn't be as widespread during 44 as it was in the earlier years due to the ammo shortage and the lack of repair parts, but they would still have been pretty common.
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That is correct.
I figured that's what you meant since in swedish, folder is called mapp and I think that's from german and since you are from holland the languages are close so map would be a likely choice
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Read that answer and posted there, but I'll post here too: "But they DID produce ammo for them. The 7.63 mauser round was used (although it's less powerful than the tokarev round it still works fine with the weapon).
The Wehrmacht officially adopted the weapon as the MP41® and issued it with that ammo."
For some reason BFC seems to think the MP41® was uncommon and used in units that were not front line units, and yet you see them quite often in pictures from normandie on FJ troops, SS troops and Wehrmacht troops.
Frontline troops.
It boggles my mind why BFC has somehow gotten the notion that this weapon was not popular with the germans.
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Use was probably more common earlier in the conflict than later as German made SMGs were more readily available by 1944 than they were in, say, 1942. The Germans did not like the drum nor the fact that it fired a caliber that the Germans did not normally stock. Some quantity of PPSh were rechambered to fire 9mm using MP38/40 magazines. How many of these were used by frontline troops in 1944 is the reason we don't have them in the game. My sense is that these weapons were used by various organizations that are not what we portray in our games. For example admin, local defense militias, and the likes.
Note that the Germans used, to some degree or another, tons of captured weapons that do not show up in frontline situations. When you think of the millions of firearms they collected in their various wars prior to 1944 you have to wonder what they did with all of them! Mostly stocked them away in warehouses I suppose.
Steve
But they DID produce ammo for them. The 7.63 mauser round was used (although it's less powerful than the tokarev round it still works fine with the weapon).
The Wehrmacht officially adopted the weapon as the MP41® and issued it with that ammo.
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Solved it. I made a map called Hit decals, like SR suggested in an earlier post. Should have read it, before posting. Sorry about that and thanks.
map?
I assume you mean folder?
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Someone likes helmets
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Hmm... looks nice.
I might use the sky.
But I tend to stay away from too much "nature" modding since it puts too much stress on the system for very little gain (I don't really need pretty trees when the game is about warfare, if you know what I mean).
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Wow, people got really confused by those screenshots... Even though it clearly states in the text that it's from TOW and none of the units in the screenshots are even in CMRT...
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I think a better question would be why are there no PPSh 41's being used by the germans?
They were widely used on the eastern front by germans and they even produced ammunition for them.
Why are there none in the game?
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A few things to consider:
1: there were entire units armed with nothing but StG's... that would put a bit of a drain on the total numbers in other units.
2: apparantly some soldiers reported their StG's as lost after burying them in the ground. (Apparantly because the ammo was in short supply and it was better to have an "inferior" rifle with plenty of ammo than a "superior" one with little ammo.)
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september... that's what you missed (might be available earlier too, but that's where I go usually)
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C'mon guys. It's an abstraction. Like all the times MG42 gunners shoulder the thing to fire. You expect every animation to be perfectly integrated with the terrain? When the technical limitations lead to backwards hands and shoulder-implanted ATRs? When moving pTruppen skid the last couple of metres (or more) to their rest? When passengers in halftracks under fire sit bolt upright with their helmets above the rim of the superstructure? There are plenty of abstractions with greater impact and/or worse appearance than this.
We don't take kindly to people who are rational here!
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I too have FRAPS but as noted huge AVI files. I do a lot of sports video taping/production and none of records in AVI. Has anyone here used a MP4 based game recorder? Nice high def, much smaller files. One such piece of software is MOVAVI. Another is Mirillis' ACTION.
Would be interested in any MP4 recording information.
I don't know, I always re-edit the files to MP4 with sony vegas pro or movie maker and then delete the originals when I'm done.
[WIP] Independent buildings revamp
in CM Red Thunder Maps and Mods
Posted
Cool
Then I can just sit back and wait