Henri

It certainly did. No wonder I'm getting my butt kicked! I thought that the general covered arc on tanks was for infantry only. So what you are saying is that if I put a general covered arc on a tank,it will engage ANY kind of enemy (infantry and armor) ONLY inside that arc? Is my memory playing tricks, or is it possible to have both kinds of covered arcs on for a tank? If so, what does it mean? From the above, putting one of the arcs on a tank should cancel the other (I can't check cause I don't have the game here). Added later: Ok, I checked it last night, putting in one kind of covered arc cancels the other, so you can't have both. Hey with all this new information, I not only got a total victory as the Russians last night with the Jaegermeister scenario, I had 12 tanks left when the scenario ended! (AAR to be posted later in scenario forum). Henri [ October 29, 2002, 07:59 AM: Message edited by: Henri ]

I wonder why? All they have to do (I think) is to post it on their site -or did I miss something? Same thing with Last Defence -after they got permission from the guy who did the conversion. Henri

Took only 2 or 3 weeks to get here in quebec city (got it last week). Easiest on the nerves is to assume that it will take 5 weeks, then if it arrives earlier yu are happy... Henri

Centigrade is not a valid unit anymore, it was replaced by Celsius. But centigrade is still used in aviation, where fear that changing words could cause accidents makes them keep outdated units (feet are still used too). Henri

The conversion to CMBB of the CMBO scenario "Last Defence" (available at a number of sites) is a good learning tutorial for new players to the game - whether or not they have played it already in CMBO. The scenario played as the Germans gives good practice for the use of covered arcs, and especially in the use of preliminary softening up of enemy defences prior to attack, and on the use of a fire base for supporting an assault by suppressing enemy defenders. Players who have not already found out will discover the much increased effectiveness of heavy machineguns.The scenario will also make the new player aware of the important effects of troop quality: assaulting green units will stop assaulting almost as soon as they are shot at, so if possible they should be used at the fire base and regular units should do the assaulting. The scenario is easy enough that new players will gain some confidence and positive reinforcement from their learning experience. While I'm at it, another fun but less pedagogical scenario for newbies is "A warm place to sleep" played as the Germans, which is fairly easy and has a couple of fun twists. Newbies should expect to get their butt kicked in the advanced tutorial, and sore losers should not tackle it before getting a good handle on the game. If it were up to me, I would put both the Jaegermeister and the converted last Defence scenarios available as demos, the former to illusrate a difficult scenario and the latter for illustration. These scenarios would convince many more players to buy the game than the two dull demo scenarios now available. Henri Sufferin' succotash, there are about ten new threads an HOUR on this forum. One can't follow them all unless he stays online full-time...

I want to speak up for more visible tracers, artillery explosions and gun rounds. I play CMBB mostly at the 3 and 4 zoom levels so I can keep an eye on the overall view, whereas a soldier in a "realistic" situation would be in the 1 view. What does realism mean when one is in the "4" view? That the commander is in a balloon above the battle? Bottom line is that soldiers on the grond cannot tell me where the tracers are coming from, so I need that information when I am playing the platoon or company commander in the next minute of play.Sure I could spend many minutes replaying the tape from each squad's perspective, but that should not be necessary. Once my heavy artillery shot 100 rounds and I only noticed it when I realized that the observer had no shots left... Henri

Just a minute, my understanding of armor cover arcs is that they tell the unit where to NOT shoot (outside the arc), not where to shoot. So if I put an armor cover arc on a tank, the tank will shoot only at other tanks that are within this arc, and it will not shoot at infantry at all. That is what I understood from the manual. Is this wrong? Can you have a separate cover arc for infantry and armor? If so, how do you tell a tank not to shoot at infantry at all? Do you put the infantry arc where you are sure that there are no infantry? Can someone please clarify? Henri

As one who got the game last week and had somewhat the same experience, my advice is...forget playing the Soviets in the advanced tutorial and try one with the Germans. For intance, if you download the new version of Last Defence (the old favorite from CMBO), you will feel a lot better about the game. As has been mentioned elsewhere, in addition the tutorial text for that scenario is full of errors and will ensure your losing if you follow it to the letter. Henri

Excuse my ignorance, but didn't German soldeirs wear greatcoats during the winter? If not always, when did they wear them? Henri

I'm not sure about this, but I suspect that it may be the crew quality that makes the difference. I observed an even worse situation with JS2's, SU-122's andSU-152's against Tigers and Panthers. In the Jaegermeister scenario, a half-dozen of the German tanks knocked out about a dozen of the above without losing a single tank.Now it is true that the Germans in general had superior optics and initially better-trained crews and communications. But this should not make a major difference at distances of 500-800 meters.Seeing the shell from s SU-152 bounce off a Tiger at those distances a couple of times in a row does not spell realism to me. Although this is pure speculation, I supect that the programmers slanted the German chances somewhat to avoid the screams of outrage from players who favor the Germans (by far the majority of players).So far I have won easily all of the German scenarios I have played and had my butt kicked to kingdom come when I play the Soviets. Of course I have not played them all... Henri Henri

QUOTE] I think everyone is assuming that BTS are following the well-established, centuries-old and undisputed convention. In much the same way, I assume that they have not chosen to redefine the metre, the second or the degree Celsius. [/QB]

OK, here is some advice for beginners. If you find the 2nd tutorial Jaegermeister too tough for a beginner, go get the CMBB version of "Last Defence" (which is also a good tutorial to learn the ropes), and play the Germans. HERE COMES THE SPOILER, BUT YOU PROBABLY KNOW IT ANYWAY UNLESS YOU NEVER PLAYED CMBO...) .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. It shouldn't be too hard as the Germans to get a total victory by establishing a base of fire at the church on the left and in the woods on the right -assuming of course that you manage to kill the Russian tanks with your STUGs. With any luck at all, you will wipe out the T34s and have one tank left. I also recommend that you get the gridded grass from the site a couple of pages above this thread so that you can see terrain elevation better. (http://www.battlefront.com/cgibin/bbs/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=23;t=001391) BTW, the scenario description says that you have a Tiger, but you don't - and you shouldn't need one.Just be careful about not rushing the Russians too much with green units unless you have the Russian infantry really keeping their heads down with covering fire. This was a nice simple scenario with CMBO and it still is now. You can find it on most sites, and while you're at it, you can also get Reisberg and Chance Encounter, also scenarios from CMBO. Henri [ October 27, 2002, 02:19 PM: Message edited by: Henri ]

Wow, thx, just what I needed! Henri

Hi, I just got CMBB and I have a few questions. 1)Is it possible to use the mods from CMBO with CMBB? 2)Is there a CMBB grass mod that makes it easier to see the topography? In particular I would like a grid over the grass. I find it difficult to see where the small hills and ridges are in some of the scenarios. A case in point is the tutorial scenario "Jaegermeister", where I can't find the top of the ridge without zooming down to the larget zoom setting. Hell I can't even FIND the ridge unless I zoom down. A possibly good idea could be to make the green lighter with altitude. Anyway I need something to make it easier to see terrain topography. Henri

Yes I know, but... Iron Roadblock is a good starter tutorial, but IMHO the jump in difficulty from that first tutorial to the second Jaegermeister is too great for most players including me (and I am an experienced CMBO player who has considerable online plaing experience -although it has been a while and I have forgotten a lot). So I am only suggeting that it would be useful to 1) improve the text of tutorial #2 to make it less confusing; 2) encourage someone to make a more "intermediate" tutorial to ease new players into the game. Given all of the scenarios available, there may already BE such a scenario. And while I'm at it, is there a list of the scenarios giving their relative difficulty for both sides? Since some are complaining about the imbalance of some of the scenarios, "learning" scenarios should give an edge to the player, and playing the "easy" side in an unbalanced scenario is a good start. Anyway Rune, it,s good to see that you're still at it making good scenarios. I presume that there are or soon will be "Rune-paks" for CMBB? I'm a bit lost about where to find info about CMBB except for this forum, to which I have not contributed much since I left in a huff over a year ago and moved on to other games. It may happen again when I stop resisting the urge to write someting about maneuver warfare... Henri

Thx, I didn't know that (guess I should read the manual tonight - and to thnk that there are Europeans complaining that they don't have the full manual while mine is sitting unread next to my computer...). Anyway I went to the scenarios forum and found the thread on the Jaegermeister tutorial, whcih confirms wht I found about the confusing explanations and mistakes in the tutorial text in the manual. This looks like a good totorial, but since the role of a tutorial is to learn the ropes, perhaps some easier tutorial could be prepared for newbies or old CBMO players like me with bad memories who haven't played CMBO for over a year.And a revised and clearer version of the tutorial text for that scenario should be posted somewhere. A new player needs some positive reinforcement to tell him that he is learning something, and having four SU-122 tanks desroyers killed by 2 tigers while trying to learn how to do a shoot and scoot is not very positive reinforcement. I mean this to be interpreted in a positive way: this is a good game, but if many new people are going to be brought into this game, there is a need for some intermediate learning scenarios. As a matter of fact, it would be good to have individual scenarios for learning specific skills, such as shoot and scoot, assaulting with infantry, using artilery and so on. having all of them together is a bit much even for an experienced wargamer. BTW, that scenario would make a much better demo scenario than the poor ones that come with the demo. If not for the confidence I had in the designers, I would not have bought the game based on the demo. Henri

Until later in the war, when long-range planes and radar became available, there was a "dead" area in the atlantic where German subs could stay in with almost comlete impunity. this should be modeled in the game. Right now, at least in the demo,if the Germans send their sub to block the sea lanes, the Brith ships in england make a beeline for the sub and kill it the next turn. henri

yes, the CMBB scenarios are unbalanced, because I losethe same scenario from both sides! Well ok, I have only played one scenario so far... Henri

I finally got the game last night and tried the tutorial. The second tutorial "Jaegermeister" as the Soviets is rather tough and has some unclear instructions and surprising events. There are two groups that are supposed to go to the right to different places, one of them the recon element that I could not identify as such. The tanks are supposed to carry some infantry and cover the town, but of course there is no place for the tanks to go through the woods to get further to the right without passing in front of the woods and getting clobbered by AT guns. Then later the tutorial text speaks of one of these groups having reached their position on the left. Is the map wraparound? The tutorial mentions adjusting for a 4 minute delay for a rocket barrage on the town; I didn't see any possible delay adjustment for the rocket spotter, and the delay was 16 minutes, by which time a lot of damage had been done by the enemy. I got the infantry on the right into the nearest woods on the right and hid them as instructed, but one of the tanks there got clobbered by an AT gun and another immobilized (of course it had to be the HQ!) when they tried to go around the woods. The main force is supposed to go on the left up to the ridge then hide until ready to attack, but the first group was spotted and fired on by a MG when it went through the clearing. Two of the tanks were immobilized going through the scattered woods on the left, and one was clobbered by AT guns when it tried to go around the woods instead. All this while trying to follow instructions not to get spotted until ready to assault... As instructed by the tutorial, I moved the 4 SU-122's to the hill in front of the town and used "shoot and scoot" tactics to peek over the hill, shoot then back down. I managed to rout a few German infantry units this way, but when the first Tiger showed up, two shells from the Su-122's bounced off the beast, who promptly killed two SU-122's, plus a couple of JsII's on my right, one of them the immobilized HQ and another who tried the same shoot and scoot tactic. Eventually a few other Grman tanks showed up, and they quuickly shooted my scooters to kingdom come, and I found myself with over 10 dead tanks, no more tank killers, no dead German tanks, and no chance at all of carrying out a successful assault. I was particularly surprised to see a Tiger being able to kill two scooting SU-122's with first-shot kills, while two shells from the SU-122's more powerful gun bounced off the Tiger. Now I know from the tutorial text that in a stand-up fight, Russian tanks have no chance against an equal number of German tanks, but seeing a single Tiger holding out against 4 scooting and shooting SU-122's plus a few JSII's seems like a bit much. Anyway I suspect that this scenario was changed somewhat since the manual was printed, because it seems to me that the instructions given are impossible to follow. Opinions? Henri

Heh, I got the game last night and got my ass handed to me on a plate as the Russians in the second tutorial (Jaegermeister or something...).sheesh! how can four Su-122's doing shoot and scoot all get killed after bouncing two shells off a couple of Tigers in the open on a hill? Not to mention the Tigers killing half a dozen JsII's with first shot kills... Henri

Sonds to me like you want Grigsby's War in Russia (available free from matrixgames). henri

That's how the Germans felt when they were about to take Moscow and the whole Moscow population came out and began to dig trenches, pick up guns and other defenses... henri

An obvious solution to me is to have a bunch of Italian partisans appear if Italy is attacked before it declares war. After all, look at the political situation at the time. It was the time of the "funny war" when no one was sure if there were going to be a real war or not, and the sentiment against the war in the US was very strong. In addition, such an action by the British would probably have knocked Canada and Australia out of the war. Not to mention giving the antiwar pro-German lobby in Britain a big boost. Now seeing Britain and France attack ITALY is certainly not going to help alleviate the anti-war sentiment in the US. In addition, 1941 is not 1944, and the Italian peole would not have taken kindly to being invaded by the British and the French at that time. With the proposed strategy, it's "game over" for the Italians if the strategy works, but if say three or four partisan units appeared in Italy after the conquest, the British would be faced with the choice of keeping a strong garrison in Ialy at the cost of weakening their other spots, which they can hardly avoid, and practically invites Germany to carry out Operation Sealion as soon a s France is conquered.It should also increase the probability of the other Axis allies to join Germany sooner.Russia was not ready for war, so a weakened Germany would suuit them fine and they would use the time to build up instead of attacking Germany (which ids what they were trying to do when Germany attacked them). In addition, in this case, Italy should not surrender, but a coalition Italian government should be formed in Africa (or maybe Sicily) with control over all Italian fleets and whatever Italian units were left when Rome was conquered. Now the allies have to defend against a possible Italian invasion from Africa, and the BEF in Africa is probably toast. This should be enough to give the Allies second thoughts... Henri