Durruti

Simon Fox posted some interesting stuff on British tank usage in this thread: www.battlefront.com/discuss/Forum1/HTML/008760.html He seems to have pretty detailed sources - love to know what they are. Regarding Fireflies, he reckoned only VC's were issued apart from two IC's to the Polish armoured division which would seem to contradict the evidence presented here?

Hi Capt. Canuck, <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>hamstrung as we were with the British equipment (well, some of it was bad, anyway...).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Just wondering how you think this could have been improved? Yes, the Canadians were equipped the same as the British but this also meant lots of lend-lease US equipment plus the advantage of having Sherman Fireflies and the support of the specialised armour of the 79th Armoured Division in Normandy which was so crucial to the success of the Commonwealth forces in the initial stages. Remember that although Omaha beach was without question the mostly hotly contested beach on D-Day, this was partly due to the fact that only 5 out of 32 amphibious tanks reached the beach, having been launched 5km from the shore. German resistance was almost as strong at Gold Beach (British) but the specialised armour was launched closer and was able to land in sufficient numbers to sway the balance with far less casualties. The only VC awarded by the Brits on D-Day was on Gold. Juno was no cakewalk for the Canadians either (note only the passing reference to Gold and Juno Beaches in the movie version of 'The Longest Day' completely ignoring Cornelius Ryan's book - cheers Hollywood). As far as I can see the Canadians were equipped no worse than the other Western Allies in Normandy which means, of course, qualitively worse but quantitively better than the Germans. If the Canadians had been equipped solely with your Ram tanks then perhaps you might have found a more extreme definition of 'hamstrung'

Actually 101 . Only two Panzer Divisions in NW Europe had Pumas; Panzer Lehr had 26 and 2nd Panzer had 25 (source; 'La Panzer Lehr Division', J-C Perrigault). Can't remember which two Eastern front units had the other 50 but I seem to think 'Encyclopedia of German tanks of WW2' by Chamberlain and Doyle mentions them.

Sorry, Echo, no Pumas at Arnhem. Only 101 were built and only half served in NW Europe - in Panzer Lehr and 2nd Panzer. Graebner's SS recce unit that tried to cross the bridge seems to have mainly had half-tracks, including some SP 75mm and 37mm versions.

Flail/Crab Shermans certainly would be interesting. I seem to remember this was mentioned a while back but can't remember what was said. I'll try a search. As far as Valentines are concerned, to be honest I don't think the small amount of use in this theatre, in second-line duties, would justify the time and effort needed to produce the model. Just my opinion...

Brilliant Thanks for the excellent data, Simon, that helps with some scenarios I was planning. Can you recommend some books that contain this sort of detailed stuff on the Commonwealth units? Also thanks for confirming what I thought about the Polish AD having Cromwells in the Armoured Recce Regt. - I know Gen. Maczek also used a Cromwell command tank called 'Hela'. Unfortunately CM doesn't seem to allow the Poles to have Cromwells for some reason? Did the Canadians never use Cromwells in their Armoured Recce Regts? Cheers, Durruti

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>it would be wrong to assume that no 6pdr equiped tanks fought in Normandy and beyond. In fact there was considerable resistance to the replacement of the 6pdr with the 75mm in British tank regiments only the diminishment of the German tank threat and the increasing danger of infantry AT weapons allowed this to proceed without outright refusal in some units.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Hi Simon, Have you got any more information on the units that used 6pdr-armed Cromwells and Churchills from Normandy onwards? I'm seriously interested in this as my few sources on this subject (eg. 'The British Soldier 1944-45, Vol.2' by Jean Bouchery) state that only the Cromwell IV onwards, armed with either 75mm (or 95mm howitzers) were used in the front line. This book does mention 6pdr-armed Churchill Mk III's and IV's starting the campaign with 6pdrs being rearmed later but doesn't mention which units. Were they just mixed in with 75mm tanks? Much appreciated, Durruti

Hi, I did my own birth chart following western astrological rules a few years ago. Just for fun as I haven't found any real evidence of the influence of the position of the planets on character - though I admit to seeing some startling results in some peoples charts, even to how facial characteristics can be shared by people of the same sun-sign. Maybe just coincidence? Surely you would also need the time of day and the latitude and longitude of birth location to get anything more than a generalised 'newspaper column' type reading? 30/01/64 - oh sorry that the Brit convention - 01/30/64

Brit Army Commandoes also had a different TO&E to regular troops. Each 'section' each had 2 eleven man sub-sections plus two 2-inch mortar squads and two snipers as standard. They were also the only Brits to hang onto Thompson SMGs instead of Stens. Its true the regular Commonwealth section/squad was pretty standardised so I have no major gripe over their portrayal. It would be nice to have an optional squad with more than the standard single Sten as this became increasingly common especially for street-fighting. Plus the Sten-gun was as common as sand... As Germanboy said, it would also be nice to have Allied motorised/armoured infantry already mounted and with TO&E support weapons, even if the actual squad is bog-standard.

Gary, those Nafziger OBs are something special. I got hold of some of the excellent Spanish Civil War lists for miniature games a while back. On the subject of Gebirgsjaeger battalions being used in a stop-gap role I read that 2nd (Vienna) Panzer Div in Normandy had a GJ abt. substituting as a Panzergrenadier abt. 'La Panzer Lehr Division' by Jean-Claude Perrigault has photos of 2nd PD prisoners in GJ uniform in the Lingevres area. I assume they were equipped and fought as panzergrenadiers. Have any more information? Will try and find more when I get time.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Absolutely not! That title is no more of a wargame than chess. It is an abstracted strategy game not a wargame. To get a much better feel for troop maneuvers, gotta go with the ACW titles from Talonsoft. I know TS is much maligned here for the WW2 titles, but I think the ACW and Napolean titles from them are the best ever done for the PC.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Hahahaha, well we all have our personal tastes I suppose...At least in chess you only get to move one unit per turn - in those oh so realistic UGO-IGO Talonsoft games you can move your whole army while the enemy stand like statues. So much more convenient. Definitely no 'gamey' tactics possible there. And hex grids are so like real life don't you think?

Talking of Americans (and Canadians and British) who wanted to get into the fight against fascism early, just have a look at the Spanish Civil War. The Lincoln Battalion formed part of the International Brigades alongside the Canadian 'Mac-Paps' (Mackenzie-Papeneau Battalion) and the British Battalion. Harry Fisher was a Lincoln volunteer who wrote an excellent book called 'Comrades' about his experiences. In chronological order he was a department store worker, labor union activist, infantry volunteer in the SCW and B26 gunner in WW2. Fascinating account.

Excellent! So these are completely new textures that don't replace original ones. Are there any other secret graphic codes we can use? I'd love to add camo helmet covers for the Germans; splinter for the Heer and spotty for the SS but I think there's only one texture slot for all. Any way around this?? Cheers, Durruti

I second Galland0's request for Brit MG armed jeeps. Not just SAS - the Paras also used them at Arnhem. Colonel Gough's jeep unit used light armour and mounted various MGs such as the twin Vickers 'K' gun. Just another small point - why can't the Poles use Cromwells in CM? Even Divisions using primarily Shermans had Cromwells in the Armoured Recce Regt. Gen Stanislaw, GOC of 1st Polish AD used a famous Cromwell command tank, 'Hela', which had a horseshoe welded on the front fender in memory of his Polish cavalry origins.

Come on guys, this is a spoof isn't it? You've had your fun with us, now own up. Which one of you old timers is *really* doodo47???

LOL, The little guy posing for his photograph cracks me up Probably hoping to get his VC very shortly. Just a (minor) shame the Wasp isn't modelled with the big fuel tank(s) on the back and the flame-gun nozzle at the front - its appearance is identical to the standard carrier here. Also the CM 25pdr looks more like a German 105mm howitzer for some reason. Not that it matters - they will be off board in my games.

I agree, Runyan. Cities, towns, even villages just don't look European without joined-up terraced housing which is only possible with the large city blockhouses currently.

OK, I'd like to throw in the towel here and agree with MarkIV and others that in the end that this is just a question of semantics and its fine to use consensus terms. No hard feelings guys? I also agree the communal system probably has little chance of acceptance but I must admit that in some ways I kind of regret this - hence sensitivity over the way the word 'communism' is sometimes lambasted. I honestly think there have been a few brave attempts to try this way of living (bypassing state socialism) though most have ended in defeat. The Israeli kibbutzim is one that has been more successful. As well as others mentioned previously by Hakko there were the communes established in parts of the Ukraine during the Russian Civil War by Nestor Makhno, destroyed, ironically, not by the White Army, but by the Red. Also the autonomous collectives formed in portions of Spain during the Spanish Civil War. Again it wasn't Franco's fascists that wiped them out but Stalin's henchmen in the Spanish Communist Party controlled Republican govt. Pretty harmless movements really but someone thought they were a threat. No, I'm no fan of Communist Parties. Cheers guys...

Anyone know if this indirect fire capability of the Vickers (and others?) is modelled in CM?

Hakko Ichiu, Much as I hate to disagree with someone so 'politically aware at a very young age', what you seem to have conveniently ignored was that the subject of discussion was the nature of the political system in countries such as USSR, China etc (originally raised by von Lucke and myself), not on the existence of various Communist parties or the Communist International and its involvement around the world. Of course there was a Communist Party in control of the USSR. Your point exactly? 'Marxist/Leninists', 'Maoists' etc. never deny they are 'communists' AFAIK. So we've established the Parties in control of these countries *claim* they wish to move towards 'communism' (not that the bureaucrats would never allow any such thing to happen coz it would mean bye-bye privileges). Commune-ism. So where were the communes? Your intention seems to trade on the McCarthy-era bugbear use of the word. Central-state Socialism is certainly no 'soft-soap' description as far as I'm concerned. If ignorance prevents this being recognised as the real threat then it will all too readily slip in through the back door. McCarthyite sloganizing was a great mistake in that it seemed to positively encourage ignorance of the real evil that is Centralised Socialism by attacking something that didn't even exist. These days its widely condemned as the 'Witch-hunt' era. If McCarthy had had the brains to attack the appalling system in the USSR in an intelligent, informed manner he would have had far more lasting results. It would be have been easy to trash their system even on their own terms. In other words he really should have 'called a duck a duck'. Why is it I keep thinking we are all essentially agreeing with each-other in what we think of regimes like the USSR?? BTW, I know a duck called Donald...

Hakko Ichiu: 'I've been hearing this particlar dodge for over 25 years -- I became politically aware at a very young age.' Why is calling something by its proper name 'a dodge'? This seems to imply that denying Russia, China etc. were ever 'communist' makes that person a communist sympathiser. In fact I think the opposite is true; in calling those disgusting regimes by their true name we can show how the Marxist-Leninist method was totally flawed in that a bureaucratic, centalised state can never transform into a commune-based stateless society. MarkIV: 'The former Soviet Union did and China does refer to themselves as "communist". So there is really no debate here.' Actually Russia called itself the Union of Soviet SOCIALIST Republics. Quite different. 'Communist Government' is actually an oxymoron because when the state 'withers away' you don't have a 'government' anymore. No doubt you could have found some poorly educated resident in the old USSR or China who thought they were living under 'communism' but then you find the poorly educated in every country If I found such a misguided person I'd probably ask them to show me a 'commune' in their country - and then wait for the non-plussed expression. DrAlimantado: 'I have no problems at all in labelling the former Soviet Union and their allies as communistic states. I do not see any other appropriate label for them.' How about 'socialist', 'Stalinist' or 'Leninist'? 'Communistic state' is another oxymoron surely? Communism is when the state magically 'withers away' (ha, ha).

von Lucke: 'I'd like to point out there has yet to be practicable government based on Marxist theory enacted on this planet, and that the use of the term 'Communist' when describing a Military/Socialist dictatorship is also incorrect.' Very true. It always amazes me how many people use the term 'Communist' without the slightest idea of what it means. Also that none of the state-socialist regimes in Russia, China etc. ever claimed to have achieved Communism. 'As to British huffiness at not having a more prominent role in SPR: It's a movie about an *American* squad...' Again I agree but then I don't think I've come across any Brits that argue Monty's chaps should have been represented in the film. If there are such people then they missed the point of SPR. What I *have* come across are people that claim films like SPR, U-571 etc., twist the facts and then present them as true events in the general consciousness. OK, you can then argue that people who base their historical knowledge around movies they've seen are pretty stupid. Fair enough. One of the main objections seemed to be a form of 'cultural imperialism' where events similar to those that happened in real life to British (or other) servicemen are depicted as if they happened to Americans instead. For instance an attack by Tiger tanks on 13th June in Normandy on a day the British were facing them at Villers-Bocage (US faced no Tigers in Normandy or indeed Panthers or PzIVs for another month). Or the first capture of an Enigma machine and code-books from a German submarine. God, that last one even caused a debate in the Brit Parliament a few days ago with Tony Blair accusing 'U-571' of insulting British servicemen - one of the few times Labour and Conservatives have actually unanimously agreed on anything (who says politicians are just a bunch of wasters with nothing better to talk about )

Well the thread started with a newspaper quote and as SPR has come up again here's another from Brit publication 'The Big Issue': 'The American flag fills the screen in bleached-bone, apparitional earth-tones, kicking off an extended 25-minute segment of D-Day massacre; US troops wading ashore to be cut down by mortar fire, trampled into the foaming surf. All of which seems to be preparing 'Saving Private Ryan' for an apocalyptic demolition job on American patriotism; Hendrix's 'Star Spangled Banner' set to celluloid. Except that it's not, not really. And at the end of nigh on three hours of gut-churning, white-knuckle cinema, Spielberg's acclaimed opus simply wipes off the blood and signs off with a good ole-fashioned salute. Admittedly, this is a gripping piece of entertainment; a 'Boy's Own' adventure with harrowing realist trimmings as Tom Hanks' anguished everyman steers his troops on a mission to rescue Matt Damon's behind-enemy-lines paratrooper. As an exercise in film-making techniques, 'Saving Private Ryan' - shot for the most part on virtuoso hand-held camera - is immaculate. As an example of cinematic storytelling it's sublime. It's just that this is emphatically not the anti-war classic some claimed it to be. Its Nazi villains are your standard eye-patched monsters, while the only truly flawed figure in Hanks' platoon is Jeremy Davies' bleeding heart interpreter. So the whole picture is a Trojan Horse (suspect tub-thumping coated in a veneer of ambiguity and decorated in documentary-style bunting) that confirms Spielburg as America's expert propagandist. War is hell, the director tells us. But it is a necessary hell, the victory of right over wrong; apple pie over bratwurst.' Xan Brooks Anyone?

I use 'Rapid Fire' myself which is suited for 20mm figures. There's also a Spanish Civil War variant available which is my main interest apart from the Normandy campaign. Is it only me that thinks CM looks like a miniatures game converted to the computer whereas other games seem like board game adaptions? Good thing I say

Nick borrowed from Buenaventura Durruti. Anybody know who he was?? There was also a band from Manchester during the '80s called the 'Durutti Column' (they misspelt the name).