sturmtiger101

Niether, in effect, did the Heer panzer divisions. According to T. Jentz, in " Panzer Truppen " among other sources, the 51st and 52nd pz. abtl. ( Panther ) were grouped under a special 10 Panzer Brigade HQ for employment in the Heeres Gruppe South during the Kursk offensive. Eric

Which would only make sense when one compares the number of SS panzer divisions to the total of Heer panzer div., brigades, and independant battalions that were outfitted with Panthers. While not all Heer panzer regiments were fortunate enough to ever recieve an organic Panther abtl., only the 1, 2, 3, 5, 9, 10, and 12 SS panzer divisions ( anyone confirm if one of the other "friewilligen" SS units had 'em ? ) were issued Panthers. Cheers, Eric Tuggle

I have seen a similar scene too. In ' Far From Over ', against the AI, I had a Tiger II fire its' nuagewhatchacallit gizmo ( close defense weapon ) at a GI squad on its port side. Just about the time the little explosive grenade comes flyin' outta the launcher along comes my Wirblewind rite up beside the Tiger II, Poompf !!!, and the Wirblewind is knocked out. Not exactly killing itself, however it was still very cool. I said to myself, " Ya know, this is one hell of a game..." I guess those open topped afvs are just so much more vulnerable, if these posts are anything to go by. Cheers, Eric Tuggle

Hey TS, That Bovington Tiger I is actually from s/504, the only other unit to send Tigers to North Africa. It is vehicle # 131, and was captured in April of '43 after an encounter w/ Churchill tanks. There is a surviving Tiger I from s/501, however, and it was found abandoned at the end of the Tunisian campaign and captured by the U S Army. This vehicle was at Aberdeen Proving Grounds until the mid 80's when it was given back to Germany on a ten year loan for display at their Munster ( or was it Sineschiem (sp) ? ) facility. Anyone here know what's become of this tank today? Last I heard it was in the UK for restification by a private firm... Cheers, Eric Tuggle

To those of you who, like me, have a special warm - fuzzy place for Tigers, AND have the spare bucks to shell out, T. Jentz and his " Tiger I & II Combat Tactics " has plenty of after action reports, both of succesful and not-so-succesful variety. It also contains plenty of performance data as well as reports of tests done by the Allies on captured examples to measure the beasts mettle. Very nice, gives a good feeling of what the crews and commanders thought of fighting in a Tiger and their experiances on different fronts. Cheers, Eric Tuggle

JAK, A report issued from Guderien's Gen. Inspecter der Panzertruppen office, circa May 1943, mentioned an engagement involving a Tiger of s/503, one of the first Tiger tank battalions formed. the action took place during the counter offensive to retake Kharkov in Operation Fredericus, late Feb - early March '43. Forget the exact wording but esssentially the account described that one Tiger I took eleven 76mm AT hits, six + 57mm, over 30 anti tank rifle hits, and ran over at least one AT mine. The road wheels looked like swiss cheese with their rubber rims gone from several, several axles / torsion bars were broken, the radiators were full of holes, the main gun barrel was perforated, all sheet metal and outer top-hamper ( smokecandles, etc. ) were shot away and the armour of the vehicle was pock-marked like a bad case of pimples on a pizza eatin' teenager. The commander's drum cupola was sprung and some main weld seams were also cracked. But, the armour had in no case been penetrated, and the crew were unscathed, if understandibly shaken, and reportedly, the vehicle still traveled another 60 kilo's after the days fighting. Ultimitley, the repair shop of the battalion decided to write this vehicle off, however, due to the cummulitive damage and the sprung weld seams. Still, in terms of crew survivability, I believe the Tiger provided a greater ratio of saftey comparable to its' contemporaries. Cheers, Eric Tuggle

Warning, slight spoiler ahead... . . . . . . . . . . . . I've " killed myself " in a game too. Sort of. In " Far From Over " a King Tiger's close defense weapon ( nbhztr ) popped a grenade on some nearby US infantry just as an Ostwind trundled by, aiming for the same infantry - BOOM - and scratch one Ostwind. The King was a regular and the Ostwind was a regular or green, can't quite recall now. At the time my greatest thought was, " Damn, now that's realism! " ... Cheers, Eric Tuggle

Tiger I, of course! Cheers, Eric Tuggle

PzKw I, Mr Waters, thank you for your comments and information with resources. I have been a fan of the PzKw III and of the Tiger I for so long that I am just experiancing further interest in the Panther series only in the last year. Appreciate your help here. Regards, Eric Tuggle

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Wolfe: JagdPanther. Sorry, couldn't resist. - Chris<hr></blockquote> Wolfe, old fellow, I'm afraid you are quite right! The JagdPanther did indeed give the Panther family an '88' armed afv. Good point and thank you for helping me keep my points from being ever too serious! I can be a stuffy old bastard... and a gamey one too! Regards, Eric Tuggle

The Panther II design consisted of a newly designed hull and turret, and was supposed to be armed with a 8.8 cm KwK 43 L/71 gun. The Panther II prototype captured by American forces carried the Panther G turret for trial purposes, as the work on the real Panther II turret did not start in earnest until late February 1945. <blockquote>quote:</font><hr> <hr></blockquote> Mattias, Hope I'm not confusing anyone... Regarding the Panther II, though, this was a completly separate project from the later development of the Panther Ausf F. The II was a developmental dead - end after the first hull was produced for trials, as it was decided to focus instead on developing the original hull and chassis. This decision was reached by Wa Pruef 6, the Panzerkommision, and M.A.N. in a series of meetings culminating in May of '43. T. Jentz, Germany's Panther .Tank...1995. Disscussion and research was on - going for development of a turret mounting the L/71 cal 88mm for the Panther Ausf F, however no date was set for this turret's introduton to series production. Indeed this particular design was still very much on the drawing boards and there were concerns regarding the loading and servicing of this weapon in a turret that could fit the Panther chassis. A wooden mock up, as well as scetches and drawings, had been made toward this proposal, but this does not mean that a Panther mounting an '88' was enevitable. Again, in the main, I'm paraphrasing Mr Jentz and his research. All else aside, what this means for we fans of CMBO and CMBB is that, IMHO, it's unrealistic for a Panther armed with the '88' to make an appearance, even an Ausf F for that matter. I haven't seen evidence that either vehicle type ever reached more than " a few partially assembeled chassis " . A shame as I would dearly enjoy employing one in a twilight, end of the war type scenario. I am enjoying this topic and all the contributors who are posting responses, it is an interesting debate. Cheers, Eric Tuggle :cool:

<blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Stoffel: Instead of a Maus I rather would see the Panther II if rare vehicles would be alowed easy to code too,since its a Panther with an 88 gun <hr></blockquote> Sorry Stoffel, Afraid there's no such beast as a Panther mounting an '88'. Per Mr T Jentz in "Panther, The Quest For Combat Supremacey. " The Panther II was an attempt to up-armour the Panther hull with 100mm front and 60 mm sides. One prototype hull was produced and was captured intact by the USA at the end of the war. It resides today at the Patton Museum of Armour, in Ft Knox, Ky. The vehicle mounted an Ausf A/G turm with the L/70 cal 75mm main armament. There was an Ausf F model under development that was a new "schmallturm " turret mounted on the Ausf G hull, but it too would have been armed with the L/70 cal 75mm, not the '88'. Two partially completed prototype turrets were completed before the war ended, but no Ausf F as such was ever produced or supplied to combat troops even for field testing, ergo, none saw combat as none ever really existed. Fabulous flights of fantasy I'm afraid. My apologies if I burst any bubbles, old man. Cheers, Eric Tuggle [ 11-11-2001: Message edited by: sturmtiger101 ]</p>

Greetings, I wanted to take a moment here and post my thanks to all the modders out there who work so hard to bring us all more and better afv, gun, grass, blasts, etc., mods. Learning to d/l and install mods, heck, do anything on my own system, has been a long hard struggle for one not brought up in the era of pcs' and the internet. I'm finally able to do basic bmp and wav file mods and have been enjoying all the awsome work that is availible through CMHQ and the 3rd party sites like The Scenario Depot. Some of the artist whose work I have used are: Fernando Buil - Panther and MkIV, Tiger S - US/FF M-4 & UK/CA/POL M-4 Desert Fox - Tiger I Paul McMahon - JgPzIV and L/70 & Hetzer Gordon Molek - Tiger II & Daimler a/c Marco Bergman - JagdPanther & M-8/M-20 a/c. Thank you all for the time and effort you put into making these mods availible. Cheers, Eric Tuggle P.S. BTS - Don't know if this would be more appropriate in another forum but I thought this might reach more members, lurkers, readers et al, here. Thank you. Eric Tuggle

Thank you for the effort and time you've put in to share these pics with us , Karch. Enjoyed viewing them tonite. Cheers, Eric Tuggle

Hey now, How about " Panzertruppen ", vol. #1 and 2, by T. Jentz? Excellent accumulation of reports written by platoon, company and battalion COs, plus lots of stats and diagrams on tactical formations. First vol for 1939 -42, second covers 1943 -45. Covers both east and western fronts. Cheers, Eric Tuggle