Music Theory

[Meach]

Guys, I need some advice and help if possible.

New band I joined have a large collection of original material and say songs are in a certain key. My job is to put down lead lines for guitar over and into these songs.

Now, I am no musical genius by any stretch of the imagination but been playing a long time and know my way around a fretboard.

The problem I face is the songs are written in what seems to be split or differing keys, not modulation per se.

For example. Tonal chord scale dictates that in a Major key the I IV V are Major, rest are Minor with the 7th usually being diminished.

What this band have done is every chord in the song is a major chord. Which means the song isn't in a Major key because usually after the first bar the chord progression is of a Minor key.

If they tell me a song is in a Minor Key usually it's not due to the same song writing style as I previously mentioned. i.e No minor chords.

I have tried to broach the subject of changing some chords to minors to fit the tonal scale a bit better but that didn't go down well.

So, anyone with a better grasp of music theory than I have any solutions or ideas how to get around this strange chord progressions in respect to putting in lead lines? Just now I am usually fitting in minor or major pentatonics but it's not gelling as it should do.

I suspect the songs are written in either Dorian or Mixolydian modes albeit by accident rather than design so would playing lead in Dorian or Mixolydian help?

Any ideas?

[costard]

What the hell, I'll give it a go...

Sounds like you have a good grasp of music theory. My advice is to have some fun - there is no way you're going to get this music to sound "good", "better" will have to do.

Chord progressions through majors is going to sound naive: tractor music - patriotic and banal. Sells music in bulk, limited opportunity to evoke a somatic response any different from that you've experienced thousands of times before. Oasis & the Beatles made their money by taking this basis and (through genuine musical capability) fitting progressions through the minors back into the majors. Take a look at some Beethoven sonatas for a display of exquisite skill here. If this is this aim, then fine - take your line from that and write something naive: you'll probably do some real damage to your musical sensibilities, but hey, the challenge is the thing. You probably don't want to throw in dissonances but you might get away with some sort of rhythmic slides between the keys (call them accidentals or blame it on the ghost of the King).

Use the lyrics to give you an idea of where you want the music to go: if it is all happy, upbeat, teens rule the world and stuff is good then you will be allowed one (1) wry smile/blank look/joke in the whole song. Best if you don't give the game away by putting it at the end. If the undertone is darker you'll be wanting to play at least one riff in some sort of minor key each verse, repeated for impact. You should be able to reach this compromise through the mere fact that it'll sound better.

Mate, you have a hell of a job ahead: play a lead guitar line that reads like a base line or throw a trumpet voluntary over the top in the quiet spaces. I hope this makes sense and doesn't fade your enthusiasm.

[Meach]

Thank you very much for the response. I feel you understand where I am coming from on this.

I am beginning to think the bassline idea or just sticking to root notes would probably get thru the most of it.

And I think your spot on about "better" over "good". I am going to have to disect the whole arrangement and just do what I can to fit in without clashing with what I call an immature chord progression. No disrespect intended but it's like painting with only primary colours. Goddamit, I want a splash of purple on my pallette!

It just gets annoying when the rhythm player looks at me and says "your out of key" and I have to bite my tongue when I should really say "your whole feckin' song is out of key!"

Suffice to say, again your spot on, avoiding dissonance is priority. It's ok on a few passing notes as I can get away with it or blame it on a blues scale

I think I will go with your idea of a minor scale riff in each verse and look at a major or modal scale for when the song goes, to my mind, askew from the scale it was intended to be in.

Thanks again for the encouragment and useful ideas. Any more, please don't hesitate to shout out. God knows I need all the help I can get

[Dietrich]

Sounds like a definite challenge, Meach. My own band experience (playing guitar) has been marked by dealing with de facto leaders who expect things to be done as they say/write yet whose playing and/or composition shows that they don't actually know what they're talking about. I agree that it's a bit ridiculous when a bandmate tells you that you're out of key when he himself demonstrates little or no sense of key.

What's the style of music the band plays? When you say every chord in a given song is a major chord, are they barre chords or first-position, capo-friendly fingerings? Am I inferring correctly that in your band there's a rhythm player and you're the lead guitarist?

Is rhythm guitarist playing whole chords (which I'm inclined to assume he is), including the third (which, as you know, would define whether it's major or minor), or is he playing "power" chords? Are you expected to play definite lead-guitar lines or just melodic stuff which suits the singing (if there is any), or might you be free to play stuff which compliments what the rhythm guy is playing (without being strictly single-note stuff)?

Pardon the barrage of questions; I'm just trying to get a better sense of the matter so as to provide the best advice I can.

Rather than worry about the fact that the chords in a given song are all the same shape/tonality, I'd look at the root notes of the chords. Can you give an example of one of the band's chord progressions? I'd suggest looking at the roots and determining what tonality (major/minor/Phrygian/etc.) they suggest relative to the key. Or does whoever writes the songs not even know what the root of the song itself is?

I recognize that it can be a surprisingly complex matter. I know from experience that when one knows a fair bit about music theory (even if one learned it informally and thus isn't shackled by formulae and such), it can be rather frustrating to try to work with people who know nothing about music theory yet act like you're the weird-minded ignoramus. =P

[Meach]

Dietrich, thank you for your post. I will try and answer your questions as best I can.

The band plays rock/punk mostly. Hard, heavy music. The Frontman who is also the rhythm player tends to use power chords mostly, he avoids Barre chords for extended playing as it hurts his hands, which I can agree with as we all have limitations. On some of the softer songs he tends to use whole chords with an arpeggiated style, which if I play anything over sends him into the stratosphere.

I have been told my job is to put in fills, phrases and lead solo's into existing songs. The riffs tend to be at the end of every vocal line in the verses and during the bridge on most songs I have about 8 bars to let rip with a blistering solo but not on all the songs we do. Some are so sacred that it's really simple riffs in the lower register only so as not to intrude upon the song.

I have been told also to just "try stuff out" but when I do it invariably ends up with my amp being turned down in the studio. Which is a bit.... humiliating lol

Chord progression is a sticky one.. One song we have goes Dmaj Fmaj, Amaj, D, maj, Gma, Amaj and I was told the song was in Dmajor. This is ok and technically I suppose it is but in the tonal chord scale for Dmaj the chord should be F#Min so when I hit a pentatonic lead break in Dmaj it clashes horribly when the Fmaj is played. The F#Min workds better but won't be adopted to fit.

Another example. Song goes along with Emaj, Gmaj, Dmaj, Cmaj for the verses. Now, I have been told its in Eminor key but... it starts with an Emaj and then the rest of the Chords belong to the minor key. It's like the song changes from major to minor after the first four bars.

I suggested that they simply change the first chord to Em instead of Emaj and the whole song would flow smoother for putting a lead line over but no. I was accused of telling them they wrote the song wrong.

I reckon I just have to switch with the chord progression and take the root notes and go with them adding embellishments on the fly.

Any further advice would be deeply appreciated.

[tagge]

Song goes along with Emaj, Gmaj, Dmaj, Cmaj for the verses. Now, I have been told its in Eminor key but... it starts with an Emaj and then the rest of the Chords belong to the minor key. It's like the song changes from major to minor after the first four bars.

Well this is the strangest thing I've ever heard. Been playing bass for about 25 years now in various coverbands and while I´m not schoold in theory I know that if the rythmguitarist told me that "this song goes in E, G, D and C" I would instantly know that the first chord would be E-minor.

And what kind of rock/punk band would play all the songs in major keys? Or then it´s really progressive rock/punk...

[Meach]

Tagge, you see what I am up against

[Other Means]

I like music.

[costard]

Meach, I thought you might be able to use this. If you can get your guys to listen to it (August 6 is a good one), they might get some sort of appreciation of what they're needing to do. If you can't, you might at least find it a worthwhile resource for ideas you can borrow. Cheers.

[Meach]

Thanks for that, much appreciated!

[Meach]

Ok, update to the thread. I put my concerns forward and am awaiting resolution. Many thanks again for those contributing.