phil stanbridge Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 Can someone explain to me how casualties work in these campaigns? For example, I've just finished mission 7 in RTM with a total victory, which was well deserved. But I noticed the AI also had 'campaign casualties'. For example, one German two-man team which was left on the map at the end of play had 3 kills from a mission before. This obviously meant I had already faced this part of the battalion at some point! So does this mean the AI also faces the same problem with attrition and supply as the human player throughout the campaign? If I kill such and such a unit in mission 7, might they not appear later on, is bascially what I'm getting at. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apocalypse 31 Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 I have no idea. I didn't think the game tracked Campaign casualties on a regular basis. I didnt know it even tracked campaign kills. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil stanbridge Posted July 8, 2011 Author Share Posted July 8, 2011 I have no idea. I didn't think the game tracked Campaign casualties on a regular basis. I didnt know it even tracked campaign kills. It's fascinating - I'm looking at a German AI unit here that I KIA and they had 2 kills from a mission beforehand according to the stats. So this rifle team must have formed part of the defense from another mission who slipped through the net, so to speak - very interesting to know how that works in game. I didn't realise this could happen, I was under the impression the AI units are 'thrown together' per mission in the editor, by the designer, but this obviously means the AI has to a certain degree battle the elements of attrition and supply just like us. Ie, this rifle team was destroyed in mission 5 and will not be available in further missions. I can't understand how it works though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wego McPbem Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 I don't think it applies to all the units in that campaign but yeah, you face some units you've fought before at times and their casualties\kill counts are carried over. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil stanbridge Posted July 8, 2011 Author Share Posted July 8, 2011 I don't think it applies to all the units in that campaign but yeah, you face some units you've fought before at times and their casualties\kill counts are carried over. Wow, I honestly didn't know that. So if I kill a whole company, for example (wishful thinking on my part perhaps), that entire company will not be available further down the line to the AI - but certain core units will always be available? So in theory, this could mean you face a much smaller enemy the better you do? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoex Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 It's really quite simple: If the campaign designer so chooses, he can give the AI opponent in a campaign 'core' forces as well. This is so that fighting the same unit in two different battles can be simulated correctly. But it is entirely the designer's choice - he can also assign completely new enemy forces for each battle if he wants. Just depends on what he is trying to simulate. It does not mean by definition that if you do better, you will be facing smaller forces down the line, as any battle could contain any number of fresh, never-seen-before units on either side. Theoretically you could have something like the old CMx1 operations if you gave both sides only core forces (+ reinforcements) and let them fight over pieces of a larger map (meaning if player gets a win in one battle, shift the next battle towards the opponent's side of the meta-map, vice-versa if the player suffers a loss). Only downside to this is no persistent map damage. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wego McPbem Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 Wow, I honestly didn't know that. So if I kill a whole company, for example (wishful thinking on my part perhaps), that entire company will not be available further down the line to the AI - but certain core units will always be available? So in theory, this could mean you face a much smaller enemy the better you do? Honestly I'm not sure but I'm guessing that certain units are carried over and others are fresh for that mission so you're always facing someone. Wiping out an element would just make that mission a bit easier. Or maybe its just a case of enemy units getting replenished between missions? Anyway I'm sure someone else will know better than me how it works. edit- and there we have it 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackcat Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 I have no idea. I didn't think the game tracked Campaign casualties on a regular basis. I didnt know it even tracked campaign kills. Hang on! You are the chap who, on another thread, is complaining about the lack of a "Force Pool" concept. Now, here you tell us you don't know how the existing system works. Sheeesh. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackcat Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 It's fascinating - I'm looking at a German AI unit here that I KIA and they had 2 kills from a mission beforehand according to the stats. So this rifle team must have formed part of the defense from another mission who slipped through the net, so to speak - very interesting to know how that works in game. I didn't realise this could happen, I was under the impression the AI units are 'thrown together' per mission in the editor, by the designer, but this obviously means the AI has to a certain degree battle the elements of attrition and supply just like us. Ie, this rifle team was destroyed in mission 5 and will not be available in further missions. I can't understand how it works though. As Stoex has said, the designer has the ability to carry over AI troops from one mission to the next. That Evil Git Paper Tiger (TEGPT) does this explictly in a couple of his missions so that how you do in one directly affects how easy the next one will be for you. However, he didn't get his monicker for nothing so don't expect the effect to persist - you will meet fresh, full strength, enemies with your depleted troops. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stoex Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 Just to add something else: By no means does the designer have to include any of the core units for either side in any particular battle. He might for example want to simulate some rear-guard action or a battle on a different part of the front which has some implications for an upcoming battle of the player's core forces (e.g. "ambush the enemy reinforcements before they can join the fray to make it easier for your main battle force"). He could then use an individual set of units for each side to play out that engagement, then depending on the outcome, bring back the core units for the next battle. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paper Tiger Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 Mission 7, eh? That would be 'Labrynth'. The German units in that mission are the same units that you fought earlier in 'Turnbull's Stand' so they are core forces and the campaign keeps track of their kills too. It gives the player an added incentive to hang aroung just a wee bit longer to kill a few more enemies... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted July 8, 2011 Share Posted July 8, 2011 A question occurs to me: What happens to AI 'core' units that are involved in scenarios which the human wins by AI surrender? Are they considered eliminated (captured or otherwise mopped up), as far as following scenarios are concerned, or are they considered to have escaped with their status as at the point of surrender? Or do they hit the next scenario with only their replacements (as defined by the designer)? Or is there a fourth option? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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