TO&E + Rarity = Win

[hm_stanley]

I have to admit, when I first loaded up the QB unit pick lists and with rarity on and seeing all the neat shiny toys I could not afford (well NOT afford in rarity), I was confused - why would BFC stop me from getting my greedy hands on these armored hulks?.

Now I've come to really understand the underlying beauty of this functionality.

I've never played close attention to unit makeup before in wargames, with the exception of high level strategy wargames, like Grisby's "War in the East" (which BTW, is just too big, I can't seem to settle into it). Anyway, for small unit tactical simulations, you got points, you picked lots of shiny king tiger tanks and a couple of infantry cannon fodder and went into the hinterland, clubbing the AI (or your unsuspecting co-worker) into merciful submission with sloped armor kitties and birds chirping 20mm tungsten rounds into their robot inspired human wave pixel-Ivans. Oh, the joy!

AND!!, we are quick to point out (at work or on these very boards) that we "are playing on the MOST elite level.. therefore we are uber.. and that the game is easy and boring after two days (tow2 Kursk anyone?)

Now, in CM, we actually have a properly model infantry or mech infantry company, with supporting weapons elements with NOT so shiny toys in all their glory presented to us in a windows explorer-like c:\ driver setup. Now before I could get all my toys, but now, the damn tiger tank costs 429 pts, but has a rarity point value of 20k, CRAP!!! these are TOO expensive, wha wha wha, boo hoo hoo..

Then you hit "OK" and you're stuck slugging it out with pixel-Yanks in modeled terrain that is not so easy to understand, let alone apply traditional fire and maneuver tactics - and slowly you begin to become quite familiar with the "Quit" hotkey. However, if you do gut it out, and I have.. much to my pleasure, and then after those 60 minute games, that run an entire weekend, you are left in most cases with 1) a stinging defeat or 2) a Pyrrhic victory. Great!, I won, and my rattled platoon is still holding the chuch!, WOW, I feel more like Pickett then Eichelberger..

One aspect of world war ii warfare that many don't really understand is that front lines, especially those on the eastern front, would ebb and flow for months. I've just finished reading Otto Carius' "Tigers in the Mud" and the descriptions of his unit's action on the Leningrad front are more about the folly of engagements -- T-34's just driving down the "Rollerbahn" with troops sitting on the back, driving right by his Tiger tank, while they are catching a breather and smoking cigarettes, the T-34 is lost (he blows it to bits).., his description of his Tiger sitting on a Russian trench line, leaking radiator fluid and no infantry behind them to assault the trench works.. and doing that several times in a given week, and no ground taken on either side.., is just mind blowing... but that was combat.

Many have explained that this game is analogous to chess. I agree, in part, Chess is an end-game, meaning that you get to a stage in Chess where there is little left and victory is uncertain. No one really knows where that point is, but it will exist at some point. The same can be applied in this game, it too is an end-game strategy, however, in the real sense, war is strategically an end-game, but tactically it's not.

However, in CM, we do in fact have an end-game, that point in the game, where you start hitting the keyboard and screaming at the dog and look up and notice that the shades are still on the windows and the TV is on.. in war, and end-game is the radiator is leaking water, and if the tiger's engine gets above 250 degrees Celsius, you're going to have to get out in the middle of a trench line with mad Ivan's shooting at you.. or, you can reverse the tank, trying to keep the engine cool by not revving the engine and pray to god you get back to a defensive line where Klaus has some schnapps for you to drink and laugh about your latest hole in your 1M Reichmark behemoth..

BTW Steve, One thing that the QB would benefit from would be a "reinforcements" capability, that is, you can allot forces into the battle at some time-interval. I know I could create a scenario to do this, but it would circumvent the picking of units for both sides.

Finally, I like to use tried and true methods of small unit combat, stuff I've read about for years, that I can finally apply to a game. This game is a very good representation of the insanity of combat, but it is also a very good game in the representation of combat tactics, meaning, you can use "real" methods of engagement that if presented with a similar "real" situation, you could argue you might approach the situation the same way

... now, that's neat.

[Battlefront.com]

Thanks! For some QBers all they want to do is play Tigers vs. Sherman 76s. That's fine, they can do that. But I was one of those guys in CMx1 that liked to play with PzIIs, Hungarians, BT-5s, etc. So much more interesting to play on the margins instead of only those things that make the Top 10 chart. QB without Rarity does not really do margins very well, so I play with Rarity on for QBs.

Reinforcements for QBs has been a suggestion since the very beginning of CM. It would be nice to have, for sure, and I can think of some really good ways to incorporate them. But it's a feature that's going to have to wait for a while because there's so much else we should do first.

Steve

[hm_stanley]

Thanks Steve.. do you think we'll see damage on vehicles? Seeing that you model tracks movement and roller wheel movement, it can't be a "bridge" to far to implement some hit decals and "flying metal"?

Reinforcements in QB can wait.. since I can do the same thing in a scenario..

[Battlefront.com]

Yeah, definitely visual vehicle damage modeling at some point. It's high up on our graphics list. Very high up. But we're going to focus most of our attention on UI for the next release. There's stuff we've had on the drawing board since CMBO that we'd finally like to get into the game.

Steve

[Broken]

Thanks! For some QBers all they want to do is play Tigers vs. Sherman 76s. That's fine, they can do that. But I was one of those guys in CMx1 that liked to play with PzIIs, Hungarians, BT-5s, etc. So much more interesting to play on the margins instead of only those things that make the Top 10 chart. QB without Rarity does not really do margins very well, so I play with Rarity on for QBs.

Reinforcements for QBs has been a suggestion since the very beginning of CM. It would be nice to have, for sure, and I can think of some really good ways to incorporate them. But it's a feature that's going to have to wait for a while because there's so much else we should do first.

Steve

Yes indeed. I hate it when QBs evolve down to the same unit mix over and over again. I want to use the full tool kit of stuff that you guys so painstakingly create, but sometimes the QB prices are just prohibitive. I also play to win, you see. Just as an example, you guys make tons of light armor that rarely sees the light of day in the QB environment.

[hm_stanley]

Thanks.. I tell you, if only I was an angel investor here in silicon valley instead of a lowly PKI software engineer, i'd throw you a few bucks... just to get those vehicle flaming steel bits and pieces..

Good stuff man..

[BloodyBucket]

I'm a fan of more "vanilla" QBs with forces resembling historical TO&E, but I've noticed that if I let the computer pick my forces in a company sized engagement, it's almost always Armored Infantry for the US...very rarely just plain ol' infantry.

Don't know why.

[CAMO]

I still day dream with AP and light caliber penetration holes in tanks and softskins...nothing fancy like flying turrets or such, just a beautiful deadly hole in the exact same place the shot landed.

blown up tracks would be a nice bonus!

[Vark]

In CM1 I'd happily play 5-700 point all infantry games and have a great time, or only have a handful of armour. Even better was pitting a small defensive force against an overwhelming assault and see how long you could survive. I agree about reinforcements, it would be nice to have them rush on and save the day, or more likely be ground down. I recently played a QB CMBB game with a dug in Pzgr Platoon plus support weapons v's an overwhelming Soviet attack, but I'd placed a platoon of armoured Pzgr behind a hill. I could only release them on turn 12 and they barely turned the tide!

On the other had creating scenarios of masses of Il2-Pe2's v's hordes of armour was unrealistic but fun.